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Posted: 5/9/2004 6:00:29 PM EST




Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:05:27 PM EST
"I swear Cap'n, it locked on to the flying fish!"
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:06:16 PM EST
Aren't these things not supposed to fire with Weight-On-Wheels?
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:06:41 PM EST
Ill bet someone had to get a change of skivvies after that. Remember the horrible fire caused by a missile that accidently fired?

Hoppy8420
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:09:34 PM EST

Yep, that's an OH SHIT moment!
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:16:12 PM EST
Now thats a serious ND
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:22:45 PM EST
wasn't John McCain involved in that? Or am I totally thinking of something else?


Originally Posted By Hoppy8420:
Ill bet someone had to get a change of skivvies after that. Remember the horrible fire caused by a missile that accidently fired?

Hoppy8420

Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:30:08 PM EST
And it's a live one too........

Crap!
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:50:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By sharky30:
wasn't John McCain involved in that? Or am I totally thinking of something else?


Originally Posted By Hoppy8420:
Ill bet someone had to get a change of skivvies after that. Remember the horrible fire caused by a missile that accidently fired?

Hoppy8420



Yes, Mccain was a pilot in one of the planes on the CVA-59 Forrestal off the coast of Vietnam in the late 60's. The fire and explosions that followed killed about 140 men and destroyed from the flight deck down to the hanger deck just about everything aft of the Island.
We made the repairs here in Norfolk Naval Shipyard in Portsmouth, Virginia.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:54:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Strats:
Aren't these things not supposed to fire with Weight-On-Wheels?



I'm not up on specifics of F-18s, but the WOW switch and master arm should take care of this. If the WOW switch on the landing gear is faulty, well, the fault is with the crew chief for a poor inspection. Although the pilots shouldn't be pressing the SRM uncage switch for anything before launch, right?
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:59:14 PM EST
I'm an AO but have noo practical experience with Sidewinders(P-3 Navy) but I think what we are looking at is a failure in the lock solenoids or detents on the missile launcher. These are electromechanical systems to secure the weapon during catapault lauchings and arrested landings. What you see in the pics is a weapon that is released during an arrested landing on board a carrier, basically the aircraft came to a sudden stop and the misslie keeps going, and it is a live missile.

dpmmn should be along he's an AO too and knows more about these launchers than I.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:01:50 PM EST
ooops. sorry.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:05:26 PM EST
Something definitely went wrong. No fighter in our active inventory should be able to fire a missile with weight on the wheels, and that's that.

WOW interlock failure, I presume.

I doubt it was a defective missile. The shackles holding the missile should have held it if the motor had somehow accidentally lit off. So whatever it was, it actually FIRED the missile and released the shackles.
Which points to a defective WOW interlock again.

I'm not a Hornet crew chief or even an aircraft mechanic of any type, so I could be wrong about that, but I'd imagine that the missile shackles would hold a missile that lit off accidentally, unless there's a system that would automatically jettison a missile that goes hot somehow.

Conjecture: the pilot somehow managed to pickle one off.

I'd like to read the pilot's explanation, and the final report on this mishap.

One more possible scenario: Could the missile have lit off if it were dropped by the loading
crew? I have no idea.


CJ
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:09:37 PM EST
I have seen this happen a couple of times. Somebody F@cked up! and didn't lock it in place on the pylon, and that someone is wearing a red shirt and is going to be down below in the shop or the rest of the cruise. In most cases of this the Pilot and the Plane Captian always seem to miss this

Policy back in the 80's was to come back to the farm empty because of this.
Thank God it never happend to me

What happened to McCain was the heat from a generator set off a Zuni Missile
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:12:11 PM EST
The missile is not firing. It was released by a failure of the locking mechanism on the launcher assembly by the sudden deceleration of the aircraft upon landing. Possibly someone forgot to install a safety pin or something. But it is definitly not firing. They are solid fuel burnring and it would be blatantly evident by exaust from the aft of the misslie. The "smoke" in the pic looks to be non-skid being abraded as the weapon skids across the deck.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:13:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
I have seen this happen a couple of times. Somebody F@cked up! and didn't lock it in place on the pylon, and that someone is wearing a red shirt and is going to be down below in the shop or the rest of the cruise. In most cases of this the Pilot and the Plane Captian always seem to miss this

Policy back in the 80's was to come back to the farm empty because of this.
Thank God it never happend to me

What happened to McCain was the heat from a generator set off a Zuni Missile
www.streetbikeworld.com/phpgallery/album/album60/wrongbutton18.jpg



I knew you'd be along. Looks like some Red Shirt is gonna get an ass chewing for sure.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:15:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
I have seen this happen a couple of times. Somebody F@cked up! and didn't lock it in place on the pylon, and that someone is wearing a red shirt and is going to be down below in the shop or the rest of the cruise. In most cases of this the Pilot and the Plane Captian always seem to miss this

Policy back in the 80's was to come back to the farm empty because of this.
Thank God it never happend to me

What happened to McCain was the heat from a generator set off a Zuni Missile
www.streetbikeworld.com/phpgallery/album/album60/wrongbutton18.jpg



I knew you'd be along. Looks like some Red Shirt is gonna get an ass chewing for sure.




Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:22:02 PM EST
I'm no expert but that rocket motor is not lit in my humble opinion. That missle is sliding down the deck after coming off the wing when the jet stopped.
Even at Mach speeds there would be more rocket exhaust. There's just a little smoke from the fins dragging on the deck.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:22:14 PM EST
If policy was to come back without missiles during the 80's would that mean that they were routinely jettisoned, or did they maddog them off? (Fire them with no designated target)

If it was the former, it suggests a lot of missiles are on the bottom of the ocean.

CJ

Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:23:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:
The missile is not firing. It was released by a failure of the locking mechanism on the launcher assembly by the sudden deceleration of the aircraft upon landing. Possibly someone forgot to install a safety pin or something. But it is definitly not firing. They are solid fuel burnring and it would be blatantly evident by exaust from the aft of the misslie. The "smoke" in the pic looks to be non-skid being abraded as the weapon skids across the deck.



Good observation! How are the missles loaded onto the rails on an F18 anyway? I have never seen or heard of this in the Air Force.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:24:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hoppy8420:
Ill bet someone had to get a change of skivvies after that. Remember the horrible fire caused by a missile that accidently fired?

Hoppy8420

yup. and I remember it was future Senator McCain's plane on deck that got hit by it.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:24:46 PM EST
holy shit!
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:33:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By eaglebite:

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:
The missile is not firing. It was released by a failure of the locking mechanism on the launcher assembly by the sudden deceleration of the aircraft upon landing. Possibly someone forgot to install a safety pin or something. But it is definitly not firing. They are solid fuel burnring and it would be blatantly evident by exaust from the aft of the misslie. The "smoke" in the pic looks to be non-skid being abraded as the weapon skids across the deck.



Good observation! How are the missles loaded onto the rails on an F18 anyway? I have never seen or heard of this in the Air Force.



Like I said, I'm not in a Fighter squadron but I would assume that the launcher assembly is an LAU-7/A series or LAU-127 series launcher. Some launchers are aircraft specific, have no idea what the USAF uses for launchers, might be the same but I'd venture it has a different designation at the very least.

dpmmn will know what launcher they use on F/A-18 wing-tip stations.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 7:34:28 PM EST
I'm in with the accidental release during the trap but I'd be interested in reading the specifics of this incident if anyone manages to track it down.

E-95
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 8:01:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:

Originally Posted By eaglebite:

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:
The missile is not firing. It was released by a failure of the locking mechanism on the launcher assembly by the sudden deceleration of the aircraft upon landing. Possibly someone forgot to install a safety pin or something. But it is definitly not firing. They are solid fuel burnring and it would be blatantly evident by exaust from the aft of the misslie. The "smoke" in the pic looks to be non-skid being abraded as the weapon skids across the deck.



Good observation! How are the missles loaded onto the rails on an F18 anyway? I have never seen or heard of this in the Air Force.



Like I said, I'm not in a Fighter squadron but I would assume that the launcher assembly is an LAU-7/A series or LAU-127 series launcher. Some launchers are aircraft specific, have no idea what the USAF uses for launchers, might be the same but I'd venture it has a different designation at the very least.

dpmmn will know what launcher they use on F/A-18 wing-tip stations.



I'm not too sure what they use on the Hornet, I was a line rat in a Tomcat Squadron.
I believe it would be the same.
the LAU-7/A is for the Sidewinder, LAU-92 for the Sparrow, and the LAU-93 for the Phoenix

That missile didn't launch under power and what you see is, it let loose and is going under her own, the same way the Hornet was going, except there was nothing to stop the $100,000.00 missile

I'm going to see what Launcher is used on the Hornet
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 8:05:51 PM EST
The Hornet uses the LAU-116/A for the Sparrow
here is a pic of it



The LAU-116/A guided missile launcher is a reusable launcher of the F/A-18 aircraft suspension and launching system for the AIM-7 Sparrow missile. The launchers are mounted internally in the fuselage structure. They are self-contained, gas-operated mechanisms, capable of suspending and ejecting the AIM-7 Sparrow missile. Two CCU-45 impulse cartridges ignited by an electrical impulse applied by the missile-firing switch, supply ejection force. The rapidly expanding gases actuate the ejector pistons and release the missile from the launcher. Power is applied to the missile guidance control system through the umbilical plug. An actuator-operated safety device prevents inadvertent firing of launcher cartridges.


My guess would be improper install on that Sparrow
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 8:22:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Something definitely went wrong.



I have no idea.


CJ



shoulda left your post like this.

Link Posted: 5/9/2004 8:33:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
I'm not too sure what they use on the Hornet, I was a line rat in a Tomcat Squadron.
I believe it would be the same.
the LAU-7/A is for the Sidewinder, LAU-92 for the Sparrow, and the LAU-93 for the Phoenix

That missile didn't launch under power and what you see is, it let loose and is going under her own, the same way the Hornet was going, except there was nothing to stop the $100,000.00 missile

I'm going to see what Launcher is used on the Hornet



I take it you were with VF-103?

E-95
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 8:36:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By E-95:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
I'm not too sure what they use on the Hornet, I was a line rat in a Tomcat Squadron.
I believe it would be the same.
the LAU-7/A is for the Sidewinder, LAU-92 for the Sparrow, and the LAU-93 for the Phoenix

That missile didn't launch under power and what you see is, it let loose and is going under her own, the same way the Hornet was going, except there was nothing to stop the $100,000.00 missile

I'm going to see what Launcher is used on the Hornet



I take it you were with VF-103?

E-95




No VF-84
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 8:51:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/9/2004 8:53:53 PM EST by Valkyrie]

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
The Hornet uses the LAU-116/A for the Sparrow
here is a pic of it

www.ordnance.org/images1/lau11618.gif

The LAU-116/A guided missile launcher is a reusable launcher of the F/A-18 aircraft suspension and launching system for the AIM-7 Sparrow missile. The launchers are mounted internally in the fuselage structure. They are self-contained, gas-operated mechanisms, capable of suspending and ejecting the AIM-7 Sparrow missile. Two CCU-45 impulse cartridges ignited by an electrical impulse applied by the missile-firing switch, supply ejection force. The rapidly expanding gases actuate the ejector pistons and release the missile from the launcher. Power is applied to the missile guidance control system through the umbilical plug. An actuator-operated safety device prevents inadvertent firing of launcher cartridges.


My guess would be improper install on that Sparrow



Looks like a Sidewinder to me?, maybe I need to study my AO book more lol! F/A-18's use a LAU-115/A as well as LAU 116/A series launchers for Sparrows so says the book anyway.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 9:05:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
The Hornet uses the LAU-116/A for the Sparrow
here is a pic of it

www.ordnance.org/images1/lau11618.gif

The LAU-116/A guided missile launcher is a reusable launcher of the F/A-18 aircraft suspension and launching system for the AIM-7 Sparrow missile. The launchers are mounted internally in the fuselage structure. They are self-contained, gas-operated mechanisms, capable of suspending and ejecting the AIM-7 Sparrow missile. Two CCU-45 impulse cartridges ignited by an electrical impulse applied by the missile-firing switch, supply ejection force. The rapidly expanding gases actuate the ejector pistons and release the missile from the launcher. Power is applied to the missile guidance control system through the umbilical plug. An actuator-operated safety device prevents inadvertent firing of launcher cartridges.


My guess would be improper install on that Sparrow



Looks like a Sidewinder to me?, maybe I need to study my AO book more lol! F/A-18's use a LAU-115/A as well as LAU 116/A series launchers for Sparrows so says the book anyway.




Good eye Orddy

My eyes are getting old like the rest of me I should have noticed the front Fins and size of the weapon

now I feel like a damn fool


The Launcher for a F/A-18 Hornet with AIM-9 Sidewinder would be the LAU-127



Link Posted: 5/9/2004 9:09:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
The Hornet uses the LAU-116/A for the Sparrow
here is a pic of it

www.ordnance.org/images1/lau11618.gif

The LAU-116/A guided missile launcher is a reusable launcher of the F/A-18 aircraft suspension and launching system for the AIM-7 Sparrow missile. The launchers are mounted internally in the fuselage structure. They are self-contained, gas-operated mechanisms, capable of suspending and ejecting the AIM-7 Sparrow missile. Two CCU-45 impulse cartridges ignited by an electrical impulse applied by the missile-firing switch, supply ejection force. The rapidly expanding gases actuate the ejector pistons and release the missile from the launcher. Power is applied to the missile guidance control system through the umbilical plug. An actuator-operated safety device prevents inadvertent firing of launcher cartridges.


My guess would be improper install on that Sparrow



Looks like a Sidewinder to me?, maybe I need to study my AO book more lol! F/A-18's use a LAU-115/A as well as LAU 116/A series launchers for Sparrows so says the book anyway.




Good eye Orddy

My eyes are getting old like the rest of me I should have noticed the front Fins and size of the weapon

now I feel like a damn fool


The Launcher for a F/A-18 Hornet with AIM-9 Sidewinder would be the LAU-127

www.ordnance.org/images1/lau12724.gif




Hey don't feel bad. At least WE can put in some technical know how on this board for a change! Lot's of ground pounders here you know
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 9:27:07 PM EST
Sidewinders are cool, this one time I was escorting some contractors doing some work and there was a rack of dummie sidewinders in there way so using sign language I convinced them they were live ! and made them move um across the hardened AC shelter by hand !!!
Another time escorting a different group some crewchiefs were beating a dummy off the wing tip rail with a pair of chocks ! Really freaked out the contractors !
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:06:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By tangeant:
Sidewinders are cool, this one time I was escorting some contractors doing some work and there was a rack of dummie sidewinders in there way so using sign language I convinced them they were live ! and made them move um across the hardened AC shelter by hand !!!
Another time escorting a different group some crewchiefs were beating a dummy off the wing tip rail with a pair of chocks ! Really freaked out the contractors !



that is a good one
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:19:47 AM EST

Sparrow.


Sidewinder.

Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:39:07 AM EST
That's not just a missile going overboard, it's also somebody's career going overboard, too.......
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:52:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By E-95:
I take it you were with VF-103?

E-95




No VF-84



Ah, I knew I'd make the wrong guess! Look at it as a compliment since I dropped some years off your age!

E-95
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:55:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By E-95:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By E-95:
I take it you were with VF-103?

E-95




No VF-84



Ah, I knew I'd make the wrong guess! Look at it as a compliment since I dropped some years off your age!

E-95



Thanks!!!! with the 42nd lap around the sun coming up in a week I need that
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