[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ohio gets CCW (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/8/2004 12:13:20 AM EDT
Boo-ya  The tide keeps risingColumbus Dispatch January 07, 2004 Qualified Ohioans should be able to carry concealed handguns by summer. In a historic breakthrough, state legislators and Gov. Bob Taft reached a tentative agreement yesterday on the long-stalled proposal. The measure would allow disclosure of the names of people with permits to carry concealed handguns, solving the last issue blocking enactment of House Bill 12. Opponents immediately raised the possibility of a statewide November referendum on the bill. The House, which had wanted to keep the names of permit-holders private, yielded to Taft and the Senate and rescinded its Dec. 10 approval of the bill. The Senate is expected to do likewise today, after which the proposal would be sent back to a House-Senate conference committee and reconsidered by both chambers later in the day. Taft said he would sign the revised bill if it contained the provision requiring county sheriffs to give the list of permit-holders to journalists who request it in writing. The bill requires sheriffs to maintain such lists. "At this point, I’m hopeful it would pass," said Taft, who had warned he would veto the bill passed Dec. 10 by the House and Senate because it would have allowed journalists to obtain permit-holders’ names only on a case-bycase basis if they could show it would be in the public interest. "It would be good to get this bill finally enacted." Click on the "Read More..." link below for more. The bill would take effect 90 days after being signed by the governor, but it could take extra time for the Ohio Peace Officer Training Commission and county sheriffs to prepare to issue permits. Robert A. Cornwell, executive director of the Buckeye State Sheriffs’ Association, said the sheriffs would be "ready to go" when the commission furnishes them with application forms, training requirements and literature for applicants. "I’d like to see it happen in 90 days," he said. "Will it? I don’t know." Rep. Jim Aslanides of Coshocton, a Republican and chief sponsor of the bill, predicted it would be six months before the first permits would be issued. Taft was asked whether the bill addressed all of his safety concerns. "Yes," he replied. "I think there’ll be accountability, and there’ll be the ability to assess and to make sure it’s working so law-abiding citizens and not criminals are carrying weapons. It depends on how we enforce that." The governor said he was satisfied that two earlier issues had been dealt with: the handling of handguns in motor vehicles for the safety of approaching law-enforcement officers; and extending legal defenses in certain cases to those who don’t have a permit but have a valid reason to carry a handgun. The bill would require sheriffs to issue a conceal/carry permit to any Ohioan 21 or older who passes a criminal background check, has no history of mental illness and completes a certified 12-hour training course on weapons handling and safety. The permit would be good for four years. Ohio would honor permits issued in other states. The handguns would be barred from school safety zones, day-care centers, government-owned buildings and bars. John Hohenwarter, a regional director of the National Rifle Association, praised the bill but lamented that its apparent approval took 10 years. "Sure, there’s a few hoops to jump through, but the bottom line is this gives Ohioans the right to protect themselves," he said. But Lori O’Neill, president of the Greater Cleveland chapter of the Million Mom March, called it a sad day for Ohio. "I feel that Gov. Taft has essentially ignored the wishes of the people of Ohio for political purposes, to keep peace in the Republican Party," she said. "He has marred his political legacy." She also criticized the Republican-dominated legislature, which she said is passing the bill "just to please the NRA and get them off their backs." O’Neill said her group is discussing the possibility of collecting 193,740 signatures during the next three months and placing a referendum on the November ballot to repeal the conceal/carry law. "Let the citizens of Ohio vote on whether they want loaded, hidden guns out in public," she said. Rep. Edward S. Jerse, a Democrat from Cleveland who was on the short end of an 85-5 vote in the House to rescind the earlier version and ratify a compromise, said he had hoped Taft would veto the bill. Jerse opposes conceal/carry, saying it will only add to the number of guns on the street. House Speaker Larry Householder, who supports gun rights, took the opposite view. "We think it’s going to have a tremendous impact on Ohio as far as criminal activity is concerned," he said. "We think it’s going to do what it has in Michigan, and that’s reduce crime. Ohioans deserve to have that in their state, also. "This is something we’ve been goofing around with in Ohio for over a decade. It’s time to get it (enacted) so we can prove it’s not what some of the (gun opponents) believe it is." Media coverage of yesterday's events: www.ofcc.net/article1690.html |
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But Lori O’Neill, president of the Greater Cleveland chapter of the Million Mom March, called it a sad day for Ohio. "I feel that Gov. Taft has essentially ignored the wishes of the people of Ohio for political purposes, to keep peace in the Republican Party," she said. "He has marred his political legacy." She also criticized the Republican-dominated legislature, which she said is passing the bill "just to please the NRA and get them off their backs." O’Neill said her group is discussing the possibility of collecting 193,740 signatures during the next three months and placing a referendum on the November ballot to repeal the conceal/carry law. "Let the citizens of Ohio vote on whether they want loaded, hidden guns out in public," she said. |
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Re: reciprocity, no. The Attorney Gen'l will determine if other states' programs are similar enough and then issue reciprocity. Re: Vehicle. You must OPEN CARRY in a car in Ohio. Re: MMM Bitch, the NRA had little to do with it actually. [url]www.ohioccw.org[/url] is the TOP NOTCH grass roots organization that did all the work! Good Job to Jeff Garvas and all the folks involved. Scott |
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Quoted: Quoted: Ohio would honor permits issued in other states. About damn time. Finally I can go home in peace without having to decide whether I want to be a victim or a felon. Taft. Professional politician who flips on yet another position. Could this be why his approval rating is 38%?? Hmmmmmmmm |
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Quoted: Re: reciprocity, no. The Attorney Gen'l will determine if other states' programs are similar enough and then issue reciprocity. Re: Vehicle. You must OPEN CARRY in a car in Ohio. Re: MMM Bitch, the NRA had little to do with it actually. [url]www.ohioccw.org[/url] is the TOP NOTCH grass roots organization that did all the work! Good Job to Jeff Garvas and all the folks involved. Scott Yes those folks did a lot of good work. They deserve a big thank you from us people. |
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Okay..so lemme get this right/refresh my memory. Assuming they grant reciprocity with Kentucky... As I drive from Kentucky to Ohio...as long as I take my firearm and lay it on the passenger seat, I am legal, correct? The auto clause is gonna be violated ALL the time I have a feeling, and police officers will eventually get sick and tired of busting people for it, as anyone in their right mind would. |
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Quoted: As I drive from Kentucky to Ohio...as long as I take my firearm and lay it on the passenger seat, I am legal, correct? [b]NO![/b] In a vehicle you MUST have the firearm HOLSTERED but IN PLAIN SIGHT on your person. Or you can choose another way, like unloaded and in the trunk, but if you're gonna carry loaded, it must be in a holster, plainly visible to anyone looking into the car, and On You! Scott |
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Quoted: The auto clause is gonna be violated ALL the time I have a feeling, and police officers will eventually get sick and tired of busting people for it, as anyone in their right mind would. Seems to me, unless a specific placement is specified, if you carry IWB, you can just pull your jacket up and over weapon exposing it. Hell, when i sit I have to check and make sure nothing rides up and shows it by accident. This would be easy for me. |
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Okay...but what a bunch of crap. I carry in the small of my back. Given that I, like most normal human beings, lean back in the seat, it is not plainly visible. So...alcazam! I'm a criminal. This law is 50% worthless. Quoted: Quoted: As I drive from Kentucky to Ohio...as long as I take my firearm and lay it on the passenger seat, I am legal, correct? [b]NO![/b] In a vehicle you MUST have the firearm HOLSTERED but IN PLAIN SIGHT on your person. Or you can choose another way, like unloaded and in the trunk, but if you're gonna carry loaded, it must be in a holster, plainly visible to anyone looking into the car, and On You! Scott |
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Quoted: This law is 50% worthless. It's better than what we have today. I posted in the Ohio board what I plan to do: Get a cheap thigh holster. Cheaper Than Dirt has one that's $10. Store it in the vehicle. When I get in, strap the thigh straps only, holster the gun in the thigh rig. When I get out, re holster in my concealment holster, stow thigh rig in vehicle, go about my business. I'd prefer to not have to mess with it, but it's better than nothing. We can fix it next session, and the session after that, but lets get something NOW. 3 murders and 18 rapes occur each month that would have been deterred had we had this law sooner. Scott |
| I doubt the idiocy of concealed carry laws demanding "unconcealed carry" while in an auto will stand up to legislative review let alone judicial review. Is it merely for the well-being of the police or are we to assume these legislators want the public to "not" see the gun when CCW guys are walking around and then "see" the gun when they're in their private auto. Dopey shit....and dangerous to the gunowner. |
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This certainly is NOT a good bill but seems the best the Columbus Coward Crew can muster. Many of them are term limited and are sucking up to Commie Taft for appointed jobs in order to keep feeding at the public trough. There is little doubt we will have to defend it at the polls from the million morons and similar left wing nut jobs. The NRA deserves no credit because they have done little to help, if anything. OFCC, OTOH, has worked hard and got people involved. I have marched at a number of "open carry" protests, including at the Commie Mansion. It is time now to defend this bill from any referendum attempt. Following that, we need to work to get it improved. I intend to present my papers the very FIRST day to have mine issued. I hate the idea of ASKING for a RIGHT that they have no place restricting. That being said, I try to obey the law and WILL defend myself so have little choice. I STILL hate Taft!! There is little chance that my FL non-resident permit will be part of any reciprocity agreement. Stupid, really, as the records check and training requirement is similar. They should issue based on that permit and a LEADS check. I haven't read ALL of the bill yet. May I apply only to my county Sheriff or are adjacent county Sheriffs acceptable? |
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I am very pleased that my brothers in Ohio will be able to carry. But, am I the only one who has serious objections to the implications risen by the ability of the NEWS MEDIA to get lists of permit holders. Whats to stop them from publishing names/addresses of ppl who carry. Talk about a shopping list for criminals. I sincerely hope it doenst go down like that. Other than that, MMM and the Brady bunch can suck my Glock |
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One note--In addition to vehicle carry holstered in plain view on your person, the law specifically mentions you can choose to store the loaded handgun in a locked glove compartment or other locked box in plain sight. This is proablly the way I would do it or put the holstered gun in my lap. Of course, you will need to keep a seperate key handy so you can open the glove box without removing the key from the ignition. Far from perfect, but better than nothing. |
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Quoted: i'm only into the first ten pages of reading thru this new law, but i see no mention made of any required training. is there a training course required under this new bill? edit: training requirements 'might' be found at section 2923.125 of the ohio revised code. Quoted: 12 hour course required. NRA course that meets requirements acceptable. Active, retired, and honorably discharged military also counts toward the training requirements. |
| I plan on purchasing a cheap Uncle Mikes IWB holster and clip the damn thing to my seatbelt. When I get in, I unholster, strap on my seat belt, and reholster. Much better than having in on the seat next to you where it can slide off or get tossed in a fender bender. |
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Quoted: Quoted: i'm only into the first ten pages of reading thru this new law, but i see no mention made of any required training. is there a training course required under this new bill? edit: training requirements 'might' be found at section 2923.125 of the ohio revised code. Quoted: 12 hour course required. NRA course that meets requirements acceptable. Active, retired, and honorably discharged military also counts toward the training requirements. tk - You got a line# for that portion? I got through the first several hundred lines and had to give up. It was giving me a headache. That would certainly be cool if my DD214 works in lieu of the 12 hours of training. |
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First, I would like to say that I'm ecstatic Ohio is finally recognizing its citizens' rights to defend ourselves. I can't wait to see our violent crime statistics over the next few years, I'm sure it'll shut a lot of people up. Second, I have a few (admittedly) noob questions about general CCW provisions. Since I've lived in OH almost my whole life, I've never looked too far into the subject. My point of concern is this: I've butted heads on more than one occassion with the CLEO in the small town where I live. I also have a less than stellar criminal record, though nothing recent and nothing that prevents me from legally purchasing a firearm. I guess in a nutshell my question is, is it up to the CLEO where you live if he signs (kinda like class 3 stuff)? Or is it just a NICs check or something similar? Any info would be appreciated. |
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It is "shall issue" which means that if you meet the qualifications you get it. However, there is enough leeway for a sherrif to say you are dangerous and shouldn"t get one. I don"t know who you'd appeal to. The county court? Seems like the same folks, pretty much, at that local level. |
| Red-Leg, check out the CCW topics on the Ohio section of the board. I'm pretty sure that thats where I saw the text regarding military personnel. I'll see what I can find, and post somewhere in Ohio board. Dont come to General much. Too much stuff to wade thru in a short amount of time. |
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Question guys. Over and over I've heard the "open carry in a car" bit, yet the bill doesn't read that way at ALL. Where is this info coming from!? Here's the bill that passed the Senate regarding CCW in a car. Pay attention to the wording, because it first deals with transport of a firearm for non-permit holders, then addresses permit holders at the end of the section: Sec. 2923.16. (A) No person shall knowingly discharge a firearm while in or on a motor vehicle. (B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle. (C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless it is unloaded and is carried in one of the following ways: (1) In a closed package, box, or case; 1655 (2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle; (3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose; (4) In plain sight with the action open or the weapon stripped, or, if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or which cannot easily be stripped, in plain sight. (D)(1) This section does not apply to officers, agents, or employees of this or any other state or the United States, or to law enforcement officers, when authorized to carry or have loaded or accessible firearms in motor vehicles and acting within the scope of their duties. (2) Division (A) of this section does not apply to a person if all of the following circumstances apply: (a) The person discharges a firearm from a motor vehicle at a coyote or groundhog, the discharge is not during the deer gun hunting season as set by the chief of the division of wildlife of the department of natural resources, and the discharge at the coyote or groundhog, but for the operation of this section, is lawful. (b) The motor vehicle from which the person discharges the firearm is on real property that is located in an unincorporated area of a township and that either is zoned for agriculture or is used for agriculture. (c) The person owns the real property described in division (D)(2)(b) of this section, is the spouse or a child of another person who owns that real property, is a tenant of another person who owns that real property, or is the spouse or a child of a tenant of another person who owns that real property. (d) The person does not discharge the firearm in any of the following manners: (i) While under the influence of alcohol, a drug of abuse, or alcohol and a drug of abuse; (ii) In the direction of a street, highway, or other public or private property used by the public for vehicular traffic or parking; (iii) At or into an occupied structure that is a permanent or temporary habitation; (iv) In the commission of any violation of law, including, but not limited to, a felony that includes, as an essential element, purposely or knowingly causing or attempting to cause the death of or physical harm to another and that was committed by discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle. (3) Divisions (B) and (C) of this section do not apply to a person if all of the following circumstances apply: (a) At the time of the alleged violation of either of those divisions, the person is the operator of or a passenger in a motor vehicle. (b) The motor vehicle is on real property that is located in an unincorporated area of a township and that either is zoned for agriculture or is used for agriculture. (c) The person owns the real property described in division (D)(3)(b) of this section, is the spouse or a child of another person who owns that real property, is a tenant of another person who owns that real property, or is the spouse or a child of a tenant of another person who owns that real property. (d) The person, prior to arriving at the real property described in division (D)(3)(b) of this section, did not transport or possess a firearm in the motor vehicle in a manner prohibited by division (B) or (C) of this section while the motor vehicle was being operated on a street, highway, or other public or private property used by the public for vehicular traffic or parking. [b](4) Divisions (B) and (C) of this section do not apply to a person who transports or possesses a handgun in a motor vehicle and who, at the time of that transportation or possession, is carrying a valid license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code, unless the person knowingly is in a place described in division (B) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code.[/b] (5) Divisions (B) and (C) of this section do not apply to a person who transports a handgun in a motor vehicle if, at the time of the transportation, all of the following apply: 1727 (a) The person did not place the handgun in the motor vehicle. (b) The person does not possess the handgun on the person's person. (c) The handgun is owned by a licensee for whom a valid license to carry a concealed handgun has been issued under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code. |
| The "open carry" question came up because of the Senate Amendments from the first round. Also included was the "lock box" with minors. This was mentioned often on ohioccw.org. At this point, it is just a matter of reading through the bill and deciphering it. I believe your assessment look correct with regards to transport in vehicles. If that is the case, I stand corrected, and am happy that is the case. I guess we just expect the worst with everything we've had to go through over the last several years. |
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Folks, this is the scoop. First, there is no such thing as "open carry", in Ohio, when the gun is in your car. The gun must be emptied, and locked away in the trunk, or some other "not readily accessible" locked container. If you get stopped, and a gun is sitting on your front seat, of on your person, in plain view, you're going to jail. Don't believe me?...Give it a try. Second, this is not a "shall issue" permit. You have to complete 10 hours of classroom time, two hours of range time, and pass the scrutiny of a criminal background check. Only then will you be allowed to [b]pay[/b] for the privilege of having a CC. Now the fee that's charged is up to the issuing County, but a cap of $45 has been placed. So let's re-cap. You can't carry in the car, concealed or otherwise. You have to sit in a classroom, and qualify on a range. You then have to pay to get the license, but only after the County give your name to the media, so that they can ridicule, and demonize you. [b]THIS LAW, AS IT STANDS NOW, IS A WORTHLESS POS.[/b] And God forgive the first person to go into Cincinnati proper, and get stopped carrying. "Police Chief" Stryker doesn't like anyone but his own inept officers carrying weapons downtown. I guarantee the first person they stop that's carrying, goes to jail. And let's not even talk about those that might have guns that have magazines capable of holding 6 or more rounds. You'll definitely be in the Hamilton County clink for violating that city ordinance. This bill is nothing but pure shit, and is just a placebo. It's absolutely ineffective. |
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I hope you are wrong. That's not how the above legilation reads. Here are sections B & C (notice capital "B" & "C") (B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle. (C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless it is unloaded and is carried in one of the following ways: (1) In a closed package, box, or case; 1655 (2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle; (3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose; (4) In plain sight with the action open or the weapon stripped, or, if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or which cannot easily be stripped, in plain sight. Now here is the part the negates the above restrictions for CCW permit holders... (4) Divisions (B) and (C) of this section do not apply to a person who transports or possesses a handgun in a motor vehicle and who, at the time of that transportation or possession, is carrying a valid license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code, unless the person knowingly is in a place described in division (B) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code. I didn't notice that there are capital "A"'s and lower case "a"'s until this last time I read it. |
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Now... 2923.126 (places where you can't carry - quoted in the last part of above paragraph. 2923.126 (B) A valid license issued under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun in any manner prohibited under division (B) of section 2923.12 of the Revised Code or in any manner prohibited under section 2923.16 of the Revised Code. A valid license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun into any of the following places: (1) A police station, sheriff's office, or state highway patrol station, premises controlled by the bureau of criminal identification and investigation, a state correctional institution, jail, workhouse, or other detention facility, an airport passenger terminal, or an institution that is maintained, operated, managed, and governed pursuant to division (A) of section 5119.02 of the Revised Code or division (A)(1) of section 5123.03 of the Revised Code; (2) A school safety zone, in violation of section 2923.122 of the Revised Code; (3) A courthouse or another building or structure in which a courtroom is located, in violation of section 2923.123 of the Revised Code; (4) Any room or open air arena in which liquor is being dispensed in premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code, in violation of section 2923.121 of the Revised Code; (5) Any premises owned or leased by any public or private college, university, or other institution of higher education, unless the handgun is in a locked motor vehicle or the licensee is in the immediate process of placing the handgun in a locked motor vehicle; (6) Any church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship, unless the church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship posts or permits otherwise; (7) A child day-care center, a type A family day-care home, a type B family day-care home, or a type C family day-care home, except that this division does not prohibit a licensee who resides in a type A family day-care home, a type B family day-care home, or a type C family day-care home from carrying a concealed handgun at any time in any part of the home that is not dedicated or used for day-care purposes, or from carrying a concealed handgun in a part of the home that is dedicated or used for day-care purposes at any time during which no children, other than children of that licensee, are in the home; (8) An aircraft that is in, or intended for operation in, foreign air transportation, interstate air transportation, intrastate air transportation, or the transportation of mail by aircraft; (9) Any building that is owned by this state or any political subdivision of this state, and all portions of any building that is not owned by any governmental entity listed in this division but that is leased by such a governmental entity listed in this division; (10) A place in which federal law prohibits the carrying of handguns. |
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Quoted: Folks, this is the scoop. First, there is no such thing as "open carry", in Ohio, when the gun is in your car. The gun must be emptied, and locked away in the trunk, or some other "not readily accessible" locked container. If you get stopped, and a gun is sitting on your front seat, of on your person, in plain view, you're going to jail. Don't believe me?...Give it a try. Second, this is not a "shall issue" permit. You have to complete 10 hours of classroom time, two hours of range time, and pass the scrutiny of a criminal background check. Only then will you be allowed to [b]pay[/b] for the privilege of having a CC. Now the fee that's charged is up to the issuing County, but a cap of $45 has been placed. Wait a minute... there's a big difference between the words "may issue" and "shall issue". If they had chosen "shall issue" no one in large cities would be rejoicing today, because we'd likely be told "NO" every time. As for permit fees and classroom time... it sucks. No argument there. But, keep in mind, Rep. Aslanides (author) is already saying he plans to come back and chip away at the things he doesn't like in this bill as early as next year. It was too important to let it go another year. Get it past, then get it amended. |
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Wait a minute... there's a big difference between the words "may issue" and "shall issue". If they had chosen "shall issue" no one in large cities would be rejoicing today, because we'd likely be told "NO" every time. I'm still a bit confused. If a person meets all the legal qualifications to carry, can their CLEO still refuse to sign for them? (ie. "Oh, disorderly conduct in 1997? For fighting!? And YOU want to carry?") Also, can a person go anywhere in their county to apply, or just in their city/town/village of residence? |
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Quoted: Folks, this is the scoop. First, there is no such thing as "open carry", in Ohio, when the gun is in your car. The gun must be emptied, and locked away in the trunk, or some other "not readily accessible" locked container. If you get stopped, and a gun is sitting on your front seat, of on your person, in plain view, you're going to jail. Don't believe me?...Give it a try. Second, this is not a "shall issue" permit. You have to complete 10 hours of classroom time, two hours of range time, and pass the scrutiny of a criminal background check. Only then will you be allowed to [b]pay[/b] for the privilege of having a CC. Now the fee that's charged is up to the issuing County, but a cap of $45 has been placed. So let's re-cap. You can't carry in the car, concealed or otherwise. You have to sit in a classroom, and qualify on a range. You then have to pay to get the license, but only after the County give your name to the media, so that they can ridicule, and demonize you. [b]THIS LAW, AS IT STANDS NOW, IS A WORTHLESS POS.[/b] And God forgive the first person to go into Cincinnati proper, and get stopped carrying. "Police Chief" Stryker doesn't like anyone but his own inept officers carrying weapons downtown. I guarantee the first person they stop that's carrying, goes to jail. And let's not even talk about those that might have guns that have magazines capable of holding 6 or more rounds. You'll definitely be in the Hamilton County clink for violating that city ordinance. This bill is nothing but pure shit, and is just a placebo. It's absolutely ineffective. Do you even know what your talking about? This law is almost the same as here in Arizona, even down to the price. What were you expecting? That Ohio would drop everything and become like Alaska and Vermont overnight? |