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Posted: 6/2/2010 2:04:05 PM EDT
This seems like a proper corollary to the other post I just made of "Never Give Up Your Weapons. Many lessons to be learned here too. Why is it that these lessons must be learned Over and Over and Over?

Surrender?

16 May 10

When ordered to surrender....

On 6 Apr 94, while on their way to Rwanda, via aircraft, Rwandan President Juvenal Habyarimana and Bruundi's President Cyprien Ntaryamira both died when their plane was shot down as it was preparing to land in Kigali, Rwanda' s capital and largest city.

Both were preparing to salvage broken-down negotiations that had been taking place, under UN auspices, between local warring factions, mostly tribal.

They never made it, but their deaths served as the spark!

What happened over the next few weeks was the "Rwandan Genocide," wherein nearly a million people, of all ages, almost all non-combatants, were slaughtered. A few were shot, but most were beaten, stabbed, burned, drowned, buried alive in pits, and/or hacked to death. As we have now come to expect, Western European nations, the bumbling UN, other African nations, and the USA, all knowing full well what was happening, did nothing to intervene.

Rwanda's Prime Minister at the time, Agathe Uwilingiyimana, along with here husband and their three children, were being guarded at their home in Kigali by ten Belgian Paratroopers from the crack Para-Commando Regiment, operating under UN supervision.

Sporadic gunfire could be heard all around, even before the plane was shot down. It took a quantum leap in intensity afterward, and everyone in the house knew they were all in extreme danger.

In fact, Uwilingiyimana, her husband, children, and all bodyguards were already targeted for extermination by the Rwandan Army, who had surrounded the house during the day.

Early the next day, 7 Apr 94, Thursday, an Army spokesman demanded that the Belgians lay down their arms and surrender their protectees, as well as themselves. The paratroopers proudly and defiantly declined, as they prepared to fight it out, supremely confident that rescue was already on the way.

It wasn't!

Those ten brave Paratroopers had already been written off as a "strategic sacrifice," the Belgian government considering their deaths a "small price to pay" for the avoidance of an "international incident." Of course, they may not have felt that way it had been they personally who had to pay "The Butcher's Bill."

The Paratroopers' downfall was their radio. Unfortunately, it worked! They received orders from their battalion commander (who was nowhere near the action) to immediately give up their weapons and surrender themselves to Rwandan troops, leaving the Uwilingiyimanas unprotected.

They never fired a shot. They obeyed orders!

The Parotroopers were immediately captured, beaten severely, and stripped naked. Then, their Achilles tendons were all severed, so they couldn't run away. They were subsequently hung up by their arms, castrated, their genitalia stuffed into their mouths, as they were simultaneously disemboweled.

The Uwilingiyimanas fled and took refuge in a nearby UN volunteer compound. Rwandan soldiers surrounded the building, but Agathe and her husband quickly emerged, unarmed, with their hands held high. No sooner had they stepped out, when they were both, without a word being said, shot to death where they stood. The identical fate would doubtless have befallen their children also, but they had been secreted away at another location and miraculously lived through the holocaust, eventually being smuggled out of the country.

A local was quoted as saying, "There are no devils in hell. They are all here in Rwanda!"

In the sixteen years since, little has improved in Rwanda, and it remains today an extremely dangerous place.

Families of the ten Paratroopers never received an apology, either from Rwanda, nor the Belgian government!

My comment:

Never surrender, no matter who orders it!

Fight it out then and there, if that is your fate. In our age, when you surrender, you'll be murdered anyway. For one, I'd rather die fighting, even against heavy odds!

With politicians, no matter where they are, there is no loyalty. Lives means nothing. Never expect to be "rescued".

Find a way to win on your own.

Don't wait Don't hesitate Don't ask Don't apologize, and Don't look back.

... and, don't expect to be thanked.

/John
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 2:04:41 PM EDT
Africa wins again!!!
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 2:31:24 PM EDT
Yes and no. Human nature wins again, in this case it just happened in Africa. We are no more civilized, we just pretend to be as long as the lights are on and the 18 wheelers supply us with our every whim every day.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 2:38:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Will:
Yes and no. Human nature wins again, in this case it just happened in Africa. We are no more civilized, we just pretend to be as long as the lights are on and the 18 wheelers supply us with our every whim every day.


I respectfully disagree.

There will be a certain segment of society, tens of millions in number, who will resort to wanton criminality if society breaks down. Likewise, there will be another segment of society that will not. The outcome depends on where the majority stands, and how they choose to proceed.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 2:47:33 PM EDT
I can understand where you are coming from but can't agree. Most people, good people, are not prepared in the slightest- financially, emotionally, in terms of skills etc...to weather a serious disruption to the established order. They are not. Modern life has failed to equip them to do so....maybe not even their fault....but it makes NO difference in the end- the WHY.

The end result is that people will kill to eat to "protect" their own.....the definition of "protection" can include most anything and be rationalized quite well by large numbers of desperate people. We've been doing it for millions of years and all of the niceties of the last few hundred aren't going to change that fundamental fact.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 2:52:42 PM EDT
What a horrible fate.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 3:04:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 3:18:09 PM EDT
I subscribe to the basic premise of the OP. Never give up, never. That applies in so many ways to situations other than war. It applies to being attacked by criminals, it applies when dealing with assholes, it applies when in competition and it applies in aerospace activities.

Can you imagine the pilot who simply "gave up"? It's happened. Aviation is also full of stories where the pilot was able to regain control with only feet to spare.

Couple that "never surrender" attitude with some significant training, understanding and quality equipment and you really do have a fighting chance at success. No matter the subject.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 4:57:19 PM EDT
I agree with the sentiment you are expressing, but your account of the events are somewhat different than the accounts I have heard. Here's a cut-n-paste of the type of account that seems pretty consistent


The account is actually from John Farnham. He has an email list I subscribe to. I have generally found his accounts to be accurate but nevertheless the sentiment expressed is one that everyone needs to emulate in my opinion.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 5:40:03 PM EDT
Charlton Heston said it best....."From my cold dead hands."  Never trust the mercy or compassion of the enemy.  Fight til the end.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 6:11:57 PM EDT
anyone that wants to disarm you has nothing but bad things planned for you,why make it easier
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 6:16:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Will:
This seems like a proper corollary to the other post I just made of "Never Give Up Your Weapons. Many lessons to be learned here too. Why is it that these lessons must be learned Over and Over and Over?

Surrender?

16 May 10

When ordered to surrender....

On 6 Apr 94, while on their way to Rwanda, via aircraft, Rwandan President Juvenal Habyarimana and Bruundi's President Cyprien Ntaryamira both died when their plane was shot down as it was preparing to land in Kigali, Rwanda' s capital and largest city.

Both were preparing to salvage broken-down negotiations that had been taking place, under UN auspices, between local warring factions, mostly tribal.

They never made it, but their deaths served as the spark!

What happened over the next few weeks was the "Rwandan Genocide," wherein nearly a million people, of all ages, almost all non-combatants, were slaughtered. A few were shot, but most were beaten, stabbed, burned, drowned, buried alive in pits, and/or hacked to death. As we have now come to expect, Western European nations, the bumbling UN, other African nations, and the USA, all knowing full well what was happening, did nothing to intervene.

Rwanda's Prime Minister at the time, Agathe Uwilingiyimana, along with here husband and their three children, were being guarded at their home in Kigali by ten Belgian Paratroopers from the crack Para-Commando Regiment, operating under UN supervision.

Sporadic gunfire could be heard all around, even before the plane was shot down. It took a quantum leap in intensity afterward, and everyone in the house knew they were all in extreme danger.

In fact, Uwilingiyimana, her husband, children, and all bodyguards were already targeted for extermination by the Rwandan Army, who had surrounded the house during the day.

Early the next day, 7 Apr 94, Thursday, an Army spokesman demanded that the Belgians lay down their arms and surrender their protectees, as well as themselves. The paratroopers proudly and defiantly declined, as they prepared to fight it out, supremely confident that rescue was already on the way.

It wasn't!

Those ten brave Paratroopers had already been written off as a "strategic sacrifice," the Belgian government considering their deaths a "small price to pay" for the avoidance of an "international incident." Of course, they may not have felt that way it had been they personally who had to pay "The Butcher's Bill."

The Paratroopers' downfall was their radio. Unfortunately, it worked! They received orders from their battalion commander (who was nowhere near the action) to immediately give up their weapons and surrender themselves to Rwandan troops, leaving the Uwilingiyimanas unprotected.

They never fired a shot. They obeyed orders!

The Parotroopers were immediately captured, beaten severely, and stripped naked. Then, their Achilles tendons were all severed, so they couldn't run away. They were subsequently hung up by their arms, castrated, their genitalia stuffed into their mouths, as they were simultaneously disemboweled.

The Uwilingiyimanas fled and took refuge in a nearby UN volunteer compound. Rwandan soldiers surrounded the building, but Agathe and her husband quickly emerged, unarmed, with their hands held high. No sooner had they stepped out, when they were both, without a word being said, shot to death where they stood. The identical fate would doubtless have befallen their children also, but they had been secreted away at another location and miraculously lived through the holocaust, eventually being smuggled out of the country.

A local was quoted as saying, "There are no devils in hell. They are all here in Rwanda!"

In the sixteen years since, little has improved in Rwanda, and it remains today an extremely dangerous place.

Families of the ten Paratroopers never received an apology, either from Rwanda, nor the Belgian government!

My comment:

Never surrender, no matter who orders it!

Fight it out then and there, if that is your fate. In our age, when you surrender, you'll be murdered anyway. For one, I'd rather die fighting, even against heavy odds!

With politicians, no matter where they are, there is no loyalty. Lives means nothing. Never expect to be "rescued".

Find a way to win on your own.

Don't wait Don't hesitate Don't ask Don't apologize, and Don't look back.

... and, don't expect to be thanked.

/John


Unless you're a Marine.  Cause, by God, the Marines RESCUE THEMSELVES.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 6:17:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2010 6:21:42 PM EDT by JonnyVain]
nevermind.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 6:20:20 PM EDT
Fucking hell!
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