Posted: 6/2/2010 2:04:05 PM EDT
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This seems like a proper corollary to the other post I just made of "Never Give Up Your Weapons. Many lessons to be learned here too. Why is it that these lessons must be learned Over and Over and Over?
Surrender? 16 May 10 When ordered to surrender.... On 6 Apr 94, while on their way to Rwanda, via aircraft, Rwandan President Juvenal Habyarimana and Bruundi's President Cyprien Ntaryamira both died when their plane was shot down as it was preparing to land in Kigali, Rwanda' s capital and largest city. Both were preparing to salvage broken-down negotiations that had been taking place, under UN auspices, between local warring factions, mostly tribal. They never made it, but their deaths served as the spark! What happened over the next few weeks was the "Rwandan Genocide," wherein nearly a million people, of all ages, almost all non-combatants, were slaughtered. A few were shot, but most were beaten, stabbed, burned, drowned, buried alive in pits, and/or hacked to death. As we have now come to expect, Western European nations, the bumbling UN, other African nations, and the USA, all knowing full well what was happening, did nothing to intervene. Rwanda's Prime Minister at the time, Agathe Uwilingiyimana, along with here husband and their three children, were being guarded at their home in Kigali by ten Belgian Paratroopers from the crack Para-Commando Regiment, operating under UN supervision. Sporadic gunfire could be heard all around, even before the plane was shot down. It took a quantum leap in intensity afterward, and everyone in the house knew they were all in extreme danger. In fact, Uwilingiyimana, her husband, children, and all bodyguards were already targeted for extermination by the Rwandan Army, who had surrounded the house during the day. Early the next day, 7 Apr 94, Thursday, an Army spokesman demanded that the Belgians lay down their arms and surrender their protectees, as well as themselves. The paratroopers proudly and defiantly declined, as they prepared to fight it out, supremely confident that rescue was already on the way. It wasn't! Those ten brave Paratroopers had already been written off as a "strategic sacrifice," the Belgian government considering their deaths a "small price to pay" for the avoidance of an "international incident." Of course, they may not have felt that way it had been they personally who had to pay "The Butcher's Bill." The Paratroopers' downfall was their radio. Unfortunately, it worked! They received orders from their battalion commander (who was nowhere near the action) to immediately give up their weapons and surrender themselves to Rwandan troops, leaving the Uwilingiyimanas unprotected. They never fired a shot. They obeyed orders! The Parotroopers were immediately captured, beaten severely, and stripped naked. Then, their Achilles tendons were all severed, so they couldn't run away. They were subsequently hung up by their arms, castrated, their genitalia stuffed into their mouths, as they were simultaneously disemboweled. The Uwilingiyimanas fled and took refuge in a nearby UN volunteer compound. Rwandan soldiers surrounded the building, but Agathe and her husband quickly emerged, unarmed, with their hands held high. No sooner had they stepped out, when they were both, without a word being said, shot to death where they stood. The identical fate would doubtless have befallen their children also, but they had been secreted away at another location and miraculously lived through the holocaust, eventually being smuggled out of the country. A local was quoted as saying, "There are no devils in hell. They are all here in Rwanda!" In the sixteen years since, little has improved in Rwanda, and it remains today an extremely dangerous place. Families of the ten Paratroopers never received an apology, either from Rwanda, nor the Belgian government! My comment: Never surrender, no matter who orders it! Fight it out then and there, if that is your fate. In our age, when you surrender, you'll be murdered anyway. For one, I'd rather die fighting, even against heavy odds! With politicians, no matter where they are, there is no loyalty. Lives means nothing. Never expect to be "rescued". Find a way to win on your own. Don't wait Don't hesitate Don't ask Don't apologize, and Don't look back. ... and, don't expect to be thanked. /John |
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Quoted:
Yes and no. Human nature wins again, in this case it just happened in Africa. We are no more civilized, we just pretend to be as long as the lights are on and the 18 wheelers supply us with our every whim every day. I respectfully disagree. There will be a certain segment of society, tens of millions in number, who will resort to wanton criminality if society breaks down. Likewise, there will be another segment of society that will not. The outcome depends on where the majority stands, and how they choose to proceed. |
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I can understand where you are coming from but can't agree. Most people, good people, are not prepared in the slightest- financially, emotionally, in terms of skills etc...to weather a serious disruption to the established order. They are not. Modern life has failed to equip them to do so....maybe not even their fault....but it makes NO difference in the end- the WHY.
The end result is that people will kill to eat to "protect" their own.....the definition of "protection" can include most anything and be rationalized quite well by large numbers of desperate people. We've been doing it for millions of years and all of the niceties of the last few hundred aren't going to change that fundamental fact. |
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Quoted:
... Early the next day, 7 Apr 94, Thursday, an Army spokesman demanded that the Belgians lay down their arms and surrender their protectees, as well as themselves. The paratroopers proudly and defiantly declined, as they prepared to fight it out, supremely confident that rescue was already on the way. It wasn't! Those ten brave Paratroopers had already been written off as a "strategic sacrifice," the Belgian government considering their deaths a "small price to pay" for the avoidance of an "international incident." Of course, they may not have felt that way it had been they personally who had to pay "The Butcher's Bill." The Paratroopers' downfall was their radio. Unfortunately, it worked! They received orders from their battalion commander (who was nowhere near the action) to immediately give up their weapons and surrender themselves to Rwandan troops, leaving the Uwilingiyimanas unprotected. They never fired a shot. They obeyed orders! The Parotroopers were immediately captured, beaten severely, and stripped naked. Then, their Achilles tendons were all severed, so they couldn't run away. They were subsequently hung up by their arms, castrated, their genitalia stuffed into their mouths, as they were simultaneously disemboweled. The Uwilingiyimanas fled and took refuge in a nearby UN volunteer compound. Rwandan soldiers surrounded the building, but Agathe and her husband quickly emerged, unarmed, with their hands held high. No sooner had they stepped out, when they were both, without a word being said, shot to death where they stood. The identical fate would doubtless have befallen their children also, but they had been secreted away at another location and miraculously lived through the holocaust, eventually being smuggled out of the country. . I agree with the sentiment you are expressing, but your account of the events are somewhat different than the accounts I have heard. Here's a cut-n-paste of the type of account that seems pretty consistent ... Dallaire ordered ten Belgians under Lt. Thierry Lotin to secure the Prime Minister of Rwanda and bring her to the radio station in the capital to make an appeal for peace. Lt. Lotin and his men arrived at the Prime Minister’s residence in the early morning hours of April 7th, where they were immediately attacked by a larger force of Hutu members of the Rwandan Army who themselves were attempting to capture the prime minister. For two hours the Belgian peacekeepers fought alone with dwindling supplies of ammunition. The Prime Minister left her protectors and attempted to hide in a nearby house but was found and killed by the attackers. Senegal Army Captain Mbaye Diagne, working in his own and without orders, bravely managed to save her children. Lt. Lotin called for support and extraction and was advised by radio by his commander that he should turn over his unit’s arms and place themselves under the Hutu custody. The ten Belgians were disarmed and taken to the Rwandan barracks in Kigali where they were observed from a distance by Major General Dallaire who was largely powerless to rescue them. There the unarmed Belgian peacekeepers were attacked by the assembled mob of mutinous Rwandan soldiers. It is known that four of the peacekeepers were hacked to death by machetes and bayonets before they could react. Lt. Lotin gathered his remaining men and made for a nearby barracks office where he used his service pistol that he had hidden to hold off further attack. The Belgians barricaded themselves and again tried to hold out for relief that never came. After a three-hour standoff their position was rushed by the Rwandan soldiers and the Belgian force perished to a man. Major General Dallaire was given the ten mutilated and stripped bodies the next day by the Rwandan military. |
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I subscribe to the basic premise of the OP. Never give up, never. That applies in so many ways to situations other than war. It applies to being attacked by criminals, it applies when dealing with assholes, it applies when in competition and it applies in aerospace activities.
Can you imagine the pilot who simply "gave up"? It's happened. Aviation is also full of stories where the pilot was able to regain control with only feet to spare. Couple that "never surrender" attitude with some significant training, understanding and quality equipment and you really do have a fighting chance at success. No matter the subject. |
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I agree with the sentiment you are expressing, but your account of the events are somewhat different than the accounts I have heard. Here's a cut-n-paste of the type of account that seems pretty consistent
The account is actually from John Farnham. He has an email list I subscribe to. I have generally found his accounts to be accurate but nevertheless the sentiment expressed is one that everyone needs to emulate in my opinion. |
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Quoted:
This seems like a proper corollary to the other post I just made of "Never Give Up Your Weapons. Many lessons to be learned here too. Why is it that these lessons must be learned Over and Over and Over? Surrender? 16 May 10 When ordered to surrender.... On 6 Apr 94, while on their way to Rwanda, via aircraft, Rwandan President Juvenal Habyarimana and Bruundi's President Cyprien Ntaryamira both died when their plane was shot down as it was preparing to land in Kigali, Rwanda' s capital and largest city. Both were preparing to salvage broken-down negotiations that had been taking place, under UN auspices, between local warring factions, mostly tribal. They never made it, but their deaths served as the spark! What happened over the next few weeks was the "Rwandan Genocide," wherein nearly a million people, of all ages, almost all non-combatants, were slaughtered. A few were shot, but most were beaten, stabbed, burned, drowned, buried alive in pits, and/or hacked to death. As we have now come to expect, Western European nations, the bumbling UN, other African nations, and the USA, all knowing full well what was happening, did nothing to intervene. Rwanda's Prime Minister at the time, Agathe Uwilingiyimana, along with here husband and their three children, were being guarded at their home in Kigali by ten Belgian Paratroopers from the crack Para-Commando Regiment, operating under UN supervision. Sporadic gunfire could be heard all around, even before the plane was shot down. It took a quantum leap in intensity afterward, and everyone in the house knew they were all in extreme danger. In fact, Uwilingiyimana, her husband, children, and all bodyguards were already targeted for extermination by the Rwandan Army, who had surrounded the house during the day. Early the next day, 7 Apr 94, Thursday, an Army spokesman demanded that the Belgians lay down their arms and surrender their protectees, as well as themselves. The paratroopers proudly and defiantly declined, as they prepared to fight it out, supremely confident that rescue was already on the way. It wasn't! Those ten brave Paratroopers had already been written off as a "strategic sacrifice," the Belgian government considering their deaths a "small price to pay" for the avoidance of an "international incident." Of course, they may not have felt that way it had been they personally who had to pay "The Butcher's Bill." The Paratroopers' downfall was their radio. Unfortunately, it worked! They received orders from their battalion commander (who was nowhere near the action) to immediately give up their weapons and surrender themselves to Rwandan troops, leaving the Uwilingiyimanas unprotected. They never fired a shot. They obeyed orders! The Parotroopers were immediately captured, beaten severely, and stripped naked. Then, their Achilles tendons were all severed, so they couldn't run away. They were subsequently hung up by their arms, castrated, their genitalia stuffed into their mouths, as they were simultaneously disemboweled. The Uwilingiyimanas fled and took refuge in a nearby UN volunteer compound. Rwandan soldiers surrounded the building, but Agathe and her husband quickly emerged, unarmed, with their hands held high. No sooner had they stepped out, when they were both, without a word being said, shot to death where they stood. The identical fate would doubtless have befallen their children also, but they had been secreted away at another location and miraculously lived through the holocaust, eventually being smuggled out of the country. A local was quoted as saying, "There are no devils in hell. They are all here in Rwanda!" In the sixteen years since, little has improved in Rwanda, and it remains today an extremely dangerous place. Families of the ten Paratroopers never received an apology, either from Rwanda, nor the Belgian government! My comment: Never surrender, no matter who orders it! Fight it out then and there, if that is your fate. In our age, when you surrender, you'll be murdered anyway. For one, I'd rather die fighting, even against heavy odds! With politicians, no matter where they are, there is no loyalty. Lives means nothing. Never expect to be "rescued". Find a way to win on your own. Don't wait Don't hesitate Don't ask Don't apologize, and Don't look back. ... and, don't expect to be thanked. /John Unless you're a Marine. Cause, by God, the Marines RESCUE THEMSELVES. |