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Posted: 8/27/2004 4:13:02 AM EST
AS the law stands now, could you pay the tax for a SBR and then not cut the barrel but put all the evil features on it?
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:13:23 AM EST
no
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:13:51 AM EST
Why not?
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:15:01 AM EST
yes. You can pay the tax and do nothing.
You do need to do the engraving on the receiver though.



-luke
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:15:37 AM EST
because nfa and clinton ban are two completely different laws.

sbr just means you can have a barrel length of less than 16", nothing about evil features in the nfa law.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:16:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By zukem:
yes. You can pay the tax and do nothing.
You do need to do the engraving on the receiver though.



-luke



AS THE LAW STANDS NOW
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:16:23 AM EST
The only nfa conversion that gets the evil features is a machinegun from a drop in auto sear. Basically you have a registered SEAR that for intents and purposes is a gun/receiver as far as the ATF is concerned. Being as a legal, transferable sear it must be from before 86. Thus when you put it in your gun, you are turning your gun into a gun the ATF sees as being made in 1986, thus way preban.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:16:52 AM EST
SBRs are not exempt from the AWB. Only machineguns are exempt from AWB. In three weeks, you can put on all the evil features you want without paying the NFA tax.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:17:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
SBRs are not exempt from the AWB. Only machineguns are exempt from AWB. In three weeks, you can put on all the evil features you want without paying the NFA tax.



not if he wants to sbr it......
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:20:01 AM EST
Its just an intellectual exercise. I thought NFA weapons werent covered by the 94 ban.
Is it just machine guns or all NFA guns.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:20:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By peekay:

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
SBRs are not exempt from the AWB. Only machineguns are exempt from AWB. In three weeks, you can put on all the evil features you want without paying the NFA tax.



not if he wants to sbr it......



He asked about adding the evil feature and not cutting down the barrel. Cannot do that (for three more weeks) to an SBR.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:21:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 4:22:25 AM EST by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Its just an intellectual exercise. I thought NFA weapons werent covered by the 94 ban.
Is it just machine guns or all NFA guns.



Machine guns are not included in the AWB. The AWB specifically states "semi-automatic." SBRs and AOWs can still meet the definition of an AWB. In fact, the BATFE has been stamping Form 1s for SBRs with a warning that the AWB still applies to the weapon for which the Form 1 was issued.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:21:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Its just an intellectual exercise. I thought NFA weapons werent covered by the 94 ban.
Is it just machine guns or all NFA guns.



machine guns are exempt
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:40:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Its just an intellectual exercise. I thought NFA weapons werent covered by the 94 ban.
Is it just machine guns or all NFA guns.



I'm sure that if the bastards writing the AWB had been thinking ahead, they would have included MGs, too. As it stands (for the next few days), the AWB applies to all semi-autos made in the last 10 years.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:45:33 AM EST
The real question is why the hell would you need a bayo lug on an 11.5" bbl. SBR? It won't fit anyway with the location of the gasport etc.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:55:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By rcsguns:
The real question is why the hell would you need a bayo lug on an 11.5" bbl. SBR? It won't fit anyway with the location of the gasport etc.



I asked purely for the furtherment of my knowledge. I dont have much use for SBRs. Except maybe a replica XM177.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:58:08 AM EST
There was a guy on this board who wanted a Krinkov. He paid the tax for an SBR, but had to put on a compensator and a non-folding stock...My thought was "What's the point?"

But this was a few years ago
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:21:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
SBRs are not exempt from the AWB. Only machineguns are exempt from AWB. In three weeks, you can put on all the evil features you want without paying the NFA tax.



Correct.

You can paper a SBR or a SBS and not perform the modifications.

You can do whatever you want to a machinegun, uninhibited. Chop barrels, make it a pistol, etc.

An SBR still has to meet the terms of the AWB until it expires.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:23:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By zukem:
You do need to do the engraving on the receiver though.


What would need to be engraved on the receiver? SBR?
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:38:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 5:38:39 AM EST by taptap]

Originally Posted By Tanker06:

Originally Posted By zukem:
You do need to do the engraving on the receiver though.


What would need to be engraved on the receiver? SBR?




Manufacturers (YOU) name and address.

ex:

Tanker06 Inc
Plastic Point, NJ
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:45:07 AM EST
Thats one thing I dont get, the parts count on 922r is thrown out once the weapon is NFA, so why doesnt that apply to AWB
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:03:03 AM EST
Just to clarify, there are two categories of NFA weapons which are not subject to the 94 AWB. As mentioned, MGs are exempt as they are full automatic and thus cannot meet the statutory definition of a "semi-automatic" assault rifle. Additionally, AOW's are exempt as AOW's are a default category for weapons which are not classified as handguns, rifles, or shotguns. The 94 AWB banned weapons on two bases - by name (AR15, AUG, etc.) and by type (rifle, pistol, shotgun) with certain features.

Hopefully in a couple weeks this will all be a moot point...
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 7:25:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By taptap:

Originally Posted By Tanker06:

Originally Posted By zukem:
You do need to do the engraving on the receiver though.


What would need to be engraved on the receiver? SBR?


Manufacturers (YOU) name and address.
ex:
Tanker06 Inc
Plastic Point, NJ


Any list supporters come to mind, from those of you in the know, who can do this for me? I'm looking
to do up an SBR here shortly, and I don't have the gear to do engraving.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:20:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
Thats one thing I dont get, the parts count on 922r is thrown out once the weapon is NFA, so why doesnt that apply to AWB



I don't see any exception in 922(r) for semi-auto rifles. The only way I can see NFA firearms being excepted is if they're MGs, AOWs, or bolt-action SBRs (just like the '94 AWB).



922 (r)
The Imported Parts Law(1990)
178.39 otherwise known as 922(r) 10 Foreign parts law on semiauto Rifles & Shotguns
http://www.atf.treas.gov/regulations/27cfr178.html
Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.
(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.
(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution
by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of
testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the
provisions of Sec. 178.151; or
(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.
(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 4:35:58 AM EST
Um.... They granfathered all pre94 guns in right? All transferrable machineguns are 86 or before. So the awb is a moot point on machineguns. All machineguns that matter are already preban. Leo machines are not part of the ban.


Hence MG exemptness in the AWB.

Yes, exemptness is a word.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 4:51:52 AM EST
The way I understand the Import Parts Count and SBR is that once a firearm is registered with the NFA, it no longer has to meet the sporting purposes clause. So, in essence, if a registered SBR is built, it can have more than 10 imported parts.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 4:58:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By racer934:
The way I understand the Import Parts Count and SBR is that once a firearm is registered with the NFA, it no longer has to meet the sporting purposes clause. So, in essence, if a registered SBR is built, it can have more than 10 imported parts.



So if you tally the cost and hassle of the US made parts VS the cost and hassle of NFA paperwork, it may be cheaper/easier to SBR a kit rifle than to rebuild it with US parts.
Anybody checked this out? Who can do the calculations?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:50:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By LHD:
Um.... They granfathered all pre94 guns in right? All transferrable machineguns are 86 or before. So the awb is a moot point on machineguns. All machineguns that matter are already preban. Leo machines are not part of the ban.

Hence MG exemptness in the AWB.



The root reason is that the AWB is an explicit ban on semi-autos. They're not pre-ban; the ban simply doesn't apply to them.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 8:25:07 PM EST
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