[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Motorcycle question... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/19/2008 4:39:01 PM EDT
| So, I'm 6'8" tall, thinking about getting a bike... The only thing I've seen that it looks like I'd come anywhere near to fitting on is a Boss Hoss, and I just don't have that kinda cash... :P What should I look for? I'm looking for a cruiser, not really a fan of crotch rockets. |
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If you're 6-8", I'd think the last thing you'd want would be a Cruiser with the saddle two feet off the ground. I don't care for Cruisers in general, and I have very specific, articulable reasons for my opinion. I think that there are much safer motorcycles available. What is the intended purpose for this prospective motorcycle? |
QFT...  Basically, for now, it'd just be a bike to get me back and forth to work/school, and run errands on. I've never ridden before, so I don't know if that would figure into it. In all honesty, I'd sooner go with a bicycle, but there are zero sidewalks/bike paths between here and work or school. |
No Kirk, only small minded morons suck. I quite enjoy my cruiser during day long rides. I love seeing everyone out on their bikes, regardless of what they ride. It's nice to see them out of their cages. |
+1000 There is room for all motorcycles. Even crotch rockets on the road. |
First thing you should do is take the MSF class. It is a fun, cheap way to learn how to ride.  Before you do any riding, get yourself a helmet (not some BS beanie thing either!), a jacket and pants that will save your skin if you should go down. Do you know what skin grafts feel like? Neither do I. And I would like to keep it that way. Don't forget gloves and boots. Leather is best, but for a beginner I would recommend some good mesh gear until you have decided that riding is something that you plan on doing for a long time. Then go out and get some high quality leather gear. While the topic of what make a good beginner bike is a hot issue around here, the most important thing is that you are comfortable on it and it is good repair. Probably a good idea to stay away from something brand new, as beginners have a bad habit of dropping them. I personally would steer a person of your size towards an older UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) like a 90's Nighthawk 750. They are bulletproof, require little maintanence, and can be found for a good price. Cheap on insurance also. Good luck, ride safe! |
I totally agree with this post! I don't know what Kirks problem is, small minded I guess. I've been riding, and have not been without a mc since '72. I've ridden most of the available types of bikes. I have come to decide that I don't care for dirt bikes, or sport bikes, or dual sport bikes - I like cruisers!!! I most certainly will not categorically state that the types of bike I do not care to ride "SUCK". In fact I think that in their own design most bike are the state-of-the-art. The fact that I like one type of bike design purpose over another should make NO difference on how others think! I think that the type of bike one decides to ride is the one that fits the riders style and riding desire. Small minded thinking seems to be running rampant on this site..... |
Well said. I personally like sitting low on my cruiser and having a nice relaxing ride. I don't own a bike because I want to race them or go to track days. I ride for enjoyment. I personally can't imagine anyone being comfortable bent over a crotch rocket but I'm not going to rag on anyone who rides one unless they're doing stupid shit like stoppies and wheelies and putting themselves and others at risk. |
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I have a friend who is 6-07. He was riding a Honda Nighthawk 750. His knees would hit the handlebars. The tallest bike we could find that he liked was a V-Strom. Sit on a lot of bikes and, if it's cruisers you like, find one that is long and strethed out. Then see if you can get forward controls for it. |
He is a road racer, technical, analytical, opinionated, and all about performance. Cruisers are sort of the antithesis for performance, and performance can keep you alive on two wheels. I think the underlying meaning below all the jabs at cruisers is a concern for the well being of fellow motorcyclists. |
Well I can appreciate and respect his experience and knowledge, but he is still fucking wrong in his approach to what bikes fellow riders should own! If I were to do a search I can probably post more mort stats of riders on HIS style of bikes than the cruiser types.... |
2 words for a big dude: GOLD WING 1800cc, flat six, one HE-UGE bike...  And much more common/easier to keep going than a Hoss... |
You can make points clearly and effectively as you(jeremy223) have many times and pass along good information without intentionally trying to piss people off. This is a technical forum, not a drama center. If someone is looking to start a pissing contest everytime a motorcycle thread is brought up, it detracts from this whole cars and bikes section. Everyone has differences in what they like, hence the many makes and models to choose from. Just because you don't like a type of bike, doesn't mean you should do your best to skirt around the CoC to troll for fun. I've seen more than a few threads where someone is happy with there new bike, and instead of hearing ride safe, take a MSF course, get good gear etc, they get a "I wouldn't take that out of the barn", or other your bike is crap comments. It is pretty juvenile. I guess it's just the anonimity of the internet. |
I think the advice of a standard bike (SV650) is the most sound advice for a new rider you could give. Learn the basics and how to ride, then determine what kind of bike you want from there, based on experience instead of conjecture. Many young squids start on super sports as a way of thinning the gene pool, and many old squids start on HDs or cruisers with the same result. I have lost friends in both camps. |
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I was fully planning on getting my motorcycle endorsement on my license, and taking the course and all that, before I go out and ride. Also, I've already determined that I want lots of metal and strappy bits around me if I'm going to go fast (working at a hospital will do that to ya), so no crotch rockets for me. Basically, I guess that I was hoping there was a bike out there that was built for huge guys like me, but without the huge, beginner un-friendly engine. :P I'm gonna go shopping Tuesday, my next day off, and see if I can't find a class around here. Thanks for all the responses and advice! Please take heart and know that I'm not out to make riders look like dumbasses. I'm gonna do this right, if I do it at all. |
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I suggest something cheaper than a full dress cruiser. It's his first bike and it will go horizontal a few times as he learns. For commuting, something comfortable, cheap, light to medium weight and did I say cheap: Really Cheap = KLR650 / Versys Nicely cheap = V-Strom Not cheap = BMW GS With all the above, your riding position is high. Good for a tall guy and very helpful in traffic looking over cars. Do the MSF. TYCOM - the cheap guy with a KLR650 and a big grin while riding it. |
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Motorcycling is a sport. Golf is a hobby. The difference is, that a sport can kill you. Riding on the street is infinitely more dangerous than riding on the track. If you ride on the street, you will be presented with life-and-death situations on a regular basis. And much like in a gun fight, your survival will depend on your skills, and the tool that you have selected. It is not something that you can choose to abstain from. There is no "dabbling" in this sport- if you're on the road, you're going to have to fight for your life at some point. I have been to WAY too many funerals, and I want EVERYBODY to survive their interest in our sport. The first recommendation was for a Yamaha Venture. The Venture weighs more than twice as much as an SV650 (900 pounds vs. 425 pounds), has a wheelbase that is a foot longer than an SV650, comes with odd-ball sized mis-matched wheels equipped with tube-type bias-ply tires, the steering geometry of an oil tanker, and a flexible mild steel frame. I do not consider it to be a survivable platform. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why people get their panties in a bunch if I dislike a particular tool. Especially when I have specific, articulable, objectively quantifiable reasons for it. The emotional responses are usually based on the fact that they like the way that Cruisers look. I make no personal attacks, so I don't see why anyone would be offended. This is a gun forum for crying out loud. We don't piss and moan over the whole 9mm vs. .45ACP thing, why does this one cause such a response? A motorcycle is a tool. It is not your identity. You would be the same person whether you own this bike, another bike, or no bike at all. Just because I wouldn't buy the same kind of bike that you like, does not mean that I do not like you, nor does it mean that you have been slighted in any way. |
I wish you well, man. I think you're looking for the wrong thing. You're going to be on the outside of the motorcycle, so more mass simply means that it's going to respond slower to your inputs when a soccer mom turns left into your path. Beginners don't need to worry about too much power. The throttle is the LEAST poweful control on a motorcycle. Even on the world's fastest production motorcycle (the Hayabusa), the throttle won't cause the front tire to come off the ground at much more than about 110 mph, but the brakes can cause the rear tire to come off the ground at over 180 mph. The bike isn't going to do anything that you didn't tell it to do- the throttle works both ways. And that horsepower is there for a reason. If a car driver makes a mistake, it means a fender-bender to them. They may have to pay an insurance deductible, and drive a rental car for a couple of weeks. To motorcyclists, if a car driver makes a mistake, our wives become widows, and our children become orphans. As part of our threat management, we need to be able to do three things, and we need to be able to do them RIGHT NOW: stop, turn, and go. If you only have two of those three available, you only have two-thirds as much chance of survival as I do. I want better for you. |
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A Sport Standard would be the correct tool for you. A long-travel Sport Standard might fit better because of your height. A Dual-Sport (like Jeremy suggested) might work well, but the seats can be uncomfortable, and they don't stop/handle/go like a Sport Standard. An Adventure-Touring bike might work. They still don't stop or handle quite like a Sport Standard, but they certainly can go well enough. I can post some pics/links/stats if you like.
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How 'bout you let him speak for himself, boy. I listed four different types of motorcycles that may suit his needs, none of which are Supersports. I don't recommend Supersports for general street use. |
I see no reason for a personal attack involving name-calling. If you have a differing opinion and feel that a Cruiser is a better choice than a Sport Standard, you are free to tell us why you think so. |
He already did. |
He said, to you, small minded morons suck. Are you saying you fit the description?  Interesting. |
Personal attack? Where? How? When? Read what I said Kirk. It only applies to those who are small minded, a broad statement. It applies to the guys who think that Harleys/SV650s/Crotchrockets are the end all and everything else sucks. It applies to the Glock, MAC, .45, or whatever knuckleheads who cannot enter a discussion without first dragging down another product simply because they don't like it or own it. Different strokes for different folks, get it? If the guy wants a cruiser, it is more creditable to discuss which cruisers are best/worst or point out why something else would be more suitable instead of simply saying that they suck. If a cruiser is not for you, fine. Have you ever stopped to think that Super Sports, Standard Sports or Adventure-Touring motorcycles are not for other people? You like performance and speed whereas others like style and comfort. Neither is wrong, just different tastes. Motorcycling to you is a sport because of what you ride and how you ride. To others it is simply a mode of transport or a hobby, albeit a more dangerous one. Embrace the fact that others are entering our ranks, regardless of type. You can make your point without being demeaning because you have experience, education, and love of 2 wheels. Stick with that. |
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Greatdane: I have no interest in participating in the cruiser/noncruiser bash fest. The following is merely personal opinion, based on a fair bit of riding and my experiences training several hundred novice riders. (I teach the MSF Basic Rider Course). With your size I can think of no cruiser that will readily accept your height. By definition cruiser-styled bikes share one common element: Low seat height. Manufacturers of all cruisers aim for minimal seat heights, usually in the 25-26" range. 25" in the legal minimum in some states. In constrast other bikes (dual sports, sport touring, etc) frequently come equipped with seats in the 32-34" range. Any bike with a 25" seat simply isn't going to fit you. You'll be folded up like a pretzel regardless of weather or not its a 250 cc Honda Rebel or an 1800 cc VTX. You can try to extend the bike by hanging your various limbs off various parts (ape-hangers, highway pegs and the like) but thats sort of like trying to fit your body into a tiny MGB sportscar by hanging your arms out the windows and cutting a hole in the roof for your head. It doesn't work all that well. Your last post mentioned wanting lots of metal and strappy bits around you, presumably for safety reasons. This is a common 'theme' I see in my classes . It is also frequently an incorrect assumption. Highway bars (also known as crash bars): Should you happen to forget to set the sidestand down when parking these bars will frequently prevent excessive damage to expensive painted parts. However, these do NOT protect you in a crash. They are NOT crash bars. They offer no additional protection of any real worth to the rider. Major rider injuries are usually a) Road Rash (preventable with appropriate riding gear) and/or b) impact injuries (wear a helmet, learn to ride, and then accept the remaining risk). Furthermore, highway bars may well INCREASE the risk of having a crash. There are two risks. Risk number one is the highway peg position: feet out front, legs extended. Yup. It looks cool. However, the rider has minimal control of the motorcycle and cannot manoveur as effectively as they could in a normal position. Most importantly, the highway bars can actually scrape on pavement to the extent that they begin to lever the rear wheel off the pavement, inducing a crash. Braking: I will make an assmumption here. Most guys who are 6'8" are usually not 145 lbs. Most of the larger fellas I've encountered are running north of 250. They aren't fat, but frames that large weigh something. Unlike others I have no problems with cruiser styled bikes. They do have limitations however. Of all bike styles the cruisers typically have the least efficient braking systems. Now take those modest brakes, add 300 lbs of rider and you have a bike with a very long braking distance. People frequently assume that cruisers are the safer bikes because they are meant to cruise (lower speed non-aggresive driving). Cruisers can be a great ride, and can be ridden safely. However, do not assume that these bikes are somewhat safer. In my experience the limitations of the bikes make them somewhat MORE dangerous, not less. A safer bike will not attempt to moderate damage in a crash: It will avoid the crash in the first place. This requires a) upright seating, b) good ground clearance -no chromed bits to drag on pavement c) good braking and d) responsive handling. If you want to ride safely, focus on YOUR SKILLS. If you are a novice I would specifically advise against the cruiser styled bike. I have nothing against cruisers (I've owned them and bought one for my wife). However, you simply do not fit cruisers. I could put you on a cruiser and teach you to ride safely. However, it will be harder than it has to be, and you will be uncomfortable. It will take longer to become a competent rider because you do not fit the bike. Your options are very limited. For the larger-framed novices I would recommend a dual-sport. I do not recommend sport bikes for novices (I won't get into it here). The dual-sports offer good seat heights, adequate brakes, and a riding position that is more likely to "fit". You'll become an adequate rider with good crash avoidance skills faster on a dual sport that fits than on a cruiser that does not. If you want a cruiser, by all means buy one. However, do not buy one thinking the 'strappy bits' equals safety. The strappy bits frequently increase the odds of a crash, thereby increasing chances of serious injury. If safety is your thing concentrate on your riding skills. 95% of effective motorcycling takes place from the neck up. Find a bike that fits. For most of us thats most bikes. For you it means a dual-sport (or a sport). |
Excellent post. |
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Also, one thing about control and motorcycles. They are very similar to aircraft. Center of Gravity and Center of Mass are EXTREMELY critical regarding balance, ability to change direction and general handling characteristics. Cruisers are GREAT bikes. For wallowing down the super slab or loooong straight(ish) back roads...because they are longer and are more difficult to turn quickly and are very stable and relaxing... also your body weight is distributed more along the length of the bike , this adds to the linear stability of the bike. The supersport, motoGP bikes are very short, moderately tall and the riders position IS cramped. This brings the center of mass and Center of gravity to the middle and in different cases varying heights above the ground, all making for a very nimble package. But mighty uncomfortable for most people. Sport standards like that Triumph 675, SV 650(s), Honda Hornet, etc stretch out the rider position but still maintain the shorter, nimble geometry of the sport bikes. Adventure tour bikes have a slightly less nimble geometry and a VERY tall stretched out position, kind of like sitting at your office desk in a taller chair. Not as agressive, but still good handling and LIGHT. Different bikes all have different power levels, power bands, etc and that is mostly up to the rider's wishes, but it is my belief that a little extra is always better then not enough. |
Actually, this part is wrong. On all other types of motorcycles, your weight is spread out. On Cruisers, the operator sits bolt upright, with his arms and legs out in front of him, unable to distribute his weight. All of his weight is on his butt. Every impact is taken straight up the butt, and the spine is directly in line with the impacts. |
Impacts? Do you mean bumps? I personally have shocks which deal with bumps sufficiently. My spine suffers no ill effects. |
Yup. The rider integrates with the machine. That includes the suspension. |
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There are other challenges with the ergonomics of a Cruiser. When the operator sits bolt upright, his torso catches the wind like a sail. So he is forced to pull on the handlebars to maintain an upright position. But the handlebars are not an attachment point for the operator- they are there only to make control inputs. At some point, the operator gets tired, and his elbows go straight. Try sanding something with your elbow locked- same thing. You're now steering with your shoulders, not your arms, which means that any little gust of wind is going to cause the operator to make unintended steering inputs. A lot of Cruiser operators try to crutch this by installing a big windshield to the forks. That big sail up there reduces performance and fuel mileage even more, and directly causes undesired steering inputs. Motorcycle riding ergonomics exist for a reason. |
Bet you can't. |
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Last I heard the single biggest demographic for MC fatalities is older riders returning to the sport. Guess what type of bike these riders usually go for. I have no problem with cruisers. I also believe that the MSF instructor was very accurate with his statements. I consider my RoadKing a touring bike as it has the exact same frame and seating arrangement as an Ultra Classic. It is less superior from a performance aspect in every way to my Ducati (go figure).When I say performance aspect I basically mean all the things you want from a MC. Handling, braking, acceleration and to some extent comfort. The bottom line is that a motorcycle should be selected using alot of serious criteria. Looks should not even be in the equation. When people say I want a cruiser because of how it looks they are not articulating their wants correctly. They equate looks with comfort and safety. They think a cruiser is inherently more comfortable/safer and it's just not true. I know people who would never ride anything other than a Harley. I have no argument with that. The truth is however that HD's and cruisers in general share the same drawbacks (all that have been mentioned above) and those are what makes them inferior esp. for a new rider. Even more true is that what is in the head of the rider is far more important than his mount. Motorcycling is not about looks, style or attitude. It is about safety fun and adventure. Be safe in whatever you choose. |
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Alright.... I'm signed up for the MSF course in early August. Check. Got to sit on a BMW GS today... Daddy likes! By "lots of metal and strappy bits", I wasn't referring to a bike, sorry for the confusion. I was referring to a car, with a roll cage, and a five-point harness, and a HANS device. I like my speed as safe as possible. Until I get much, much more experience, the fastest I plan to go on any bike that I might buy is 50 MPH. Again, sorry for the confusion, as a noob I'm a bit ignorant. I thought, until I started this thread, that any bike was either a crotch rocket, a cruiser, or a dirt bike. I've been shown the error of my ways, and I appreciate it. And, for the record, I own a 9mm AND a 45ACP.  As with many of my hobbies (shooting, making fireworks, home chemistry fun, etc.) safety is paramount. Believe me, I'm well aware that almost any of the things that I enjoy could kill me if I fuck it up bad enough, or if someone else fucks it up for me. Skills and safety are the only way to minimize that risk, and I fully intend on being around for a while. I've got a wife and a cat to think about, for God's sake!  So, yeah. Taking the MSF course, and in the meantime, I'm just gonna sit on and test the feel for as many bikes as I can get my hands on. |
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Good for you GD. Now it's time to select a helmet. Check out the Snell Memorial Foundation website for helmets with higher safety ratings. There are some threads on here about helmets so check them out. A great helmet at a great price is the Scorpion EXO series. Good luck and ride safe. |
Sounds more like infringement of freedom to me. If we are looking at safety aspects why not put governors on all bikes so they cannot do more than 65 mph. I sure am glad I live in a free state where the individual is responsible for their own safety, stupid or not. |
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