Posted: 7/12/2017 9:12:21 AM EDT
Mod Zero is coming out with a adjustable picatinny rail system. You zero your optic of choice then swap the optic to another rifle with the Mod Zero rail system. You zero the rail and then you can swap the optic across multiple guns that have the Mod Zero rail. Attached File |
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I cannot see how this is different than zeroing a scope on a flat top and then putting it on another flat top.
I mean, maybe their tolerances are tighter/consistency? But, I imagine there would still be some sort of POI shift. I could be wrong, maybe I am thinking about this the wrong way. |
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Quoted:
I cannot see how this is different than zeroing a scope on a flat top and then putting it on another flat top. I mean, maybe their tolerances are tighter/consistency? But, I imagine there would still be some sort of POI shift. I could be wrong, maybe I am thinking about this the wrong way. So you use this on the second flat top to zero instead of adjusting the scope. Then your scope dials say zero on both rifles. I'm tired of the word zero now. |
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Zero a scope on a flat top and put it on another flat top and see if it shoots to zero. It won't. So you use this on the second flat top to zero instead of adjusting the scope. Then your scope dials say zero on both rifles. I'm tired of the word zero now. If you buy one of these for each guns instead of an optic, maybe you need to take a look at your priorities... I tend to shy away from adding MORE moving parts to anything that I want to hold zero. |
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Zero a scope on a flat top and put it on another flat top and see if it shoots to zero. It won't. So you use this on the second flat top to zero instead of adjusting the scope. Then your scope dials say zero on both rifles. I'm tired of the word zero now. Quoted:
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I cannot see how this is different than zeroing a scope on a flat top and then putting it on another flat top. I mean, maybe their tolerances are tighter/consistency? But, I imagine there would still be some sort of POI shift. I could be wrong, maybe I am thinking about this the wrong way. So you use this on the second flat top to zero instead of adjusting the scope. Then your scope dials say zero on both rifles. I'm tired of the word zero now. I do maintain that there would still be a POI shift. I have zeroed scopes/RDS on one rifle and switched it to the other. There is a POI change, but sometimes it's negligible sometimes it is not. I assume you would have the same issue with this, but it may be consistently less of a POI shift. |
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I am still not understanding this fully, but I do not think it is your fault. I do maintain that there would still be a POI shift. I have zeroed scopes/RDS on one rifle and switched it to the other. There is a POI change, but sometimes it's negligible sometimes it is not. I assume you would have the same issue with this, but it may be consistently less of a POI shift. The mount in question has vertical and horizontal adjustments built in so that you can zero the optic to the rifle without actually adjusting the turrets. You are essentially dialing the rifle to the optic. That way when you go back to the original rifle, the scope is still zeroed. I'm not saying it's repeatable, but that's the goal. |
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Totally unnecessary.
Haven't you guys seen the assassin movies where the dude's rifle is all broken down and stowed in a case for transport and deployment? He checks into a hotel room (alias), sets the case in the bed and opens it, pieces together the rifle (with optic), and shoots his target stone cold dead. I mean the optic is already zeroed for pinpoint accuracy rendering this totally obsolete. |
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Zero a scope on a flat top and put it on another flat top and see if it shoots to zero. It won't. So you use this on the second flat top to zero instead of adjusting the scope. Then your scope dials say zero on both rifles. I'm tired of the word zero now. I can see a use for this for cheap folks. I've got a handful of AR's with various red dots, irons, and glass on them. Most of them are range optics, but I have some Aimpoints and ACOG's. I can see the point of being able to move the ACOG or whatever expensive ass optic you have around without (theoretically) having to re-zero so you can use it on. Not that I would do it. But I see the point. |
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I think you're missing the point. The mount in question has vertical and horizontal adjustments built in so that you can zero the optic to the rifle without actually adjusting the turrets. You are essentially dialing the rifle to the optic. That way when you go back to the original rifle, the scope is still zeroed. I'm not saying it's repeatable, but that's the goal. |
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This only works if the rail holds a zero, and the optic mount itself can mount in a repeatable manner. While the former seems plausible, I don't think the latter is. At least not to the degree I'd be happy with. |
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Looks like it'll make for a pretty high optic. If you have to move a scope from rifle to rifle, it seems to me like it would be a lot easier just to set the turrets to zero for the rifle you use the most, write down the DOPE for the other rifles, and dial the scope when you switch. |
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It would be simpler to zero your optic on one gun, and set your turrets ti zero, and then zero for the second, and mark the turrets for the zero there as well.
There are turrets that let you zero to more than one gun as well. The Leatherwood / Hi Lux Uni Dial is one of them. You can independently set zero for three different guns on one scope. Better yet, instead of wasting money on all this, and introducing more variables and more pieces and complications, save up and get optics for each gun. |
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They should print that out and put it on the website for this product. And print it again and put it in the box. I can see a use for this for cheap folks. I've got a handful of AR's with various red dots, irons, and glass on them. Most of them are range optics, but I have some Aimpoints and ACOG's. I can see the point of being able to move the ACOG or whatever expensive ass optic you have around without (theoretically) having to re-zero so you can use it on. Not that I would do it. But I see the point. You don't need to be cheap for $2900 to be a lot better than $5000. If it costs more than $400, then yeah they're not going to go too far 
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Not even just cheap folks. Put a $2500 Nightforce or Razor solidly on your long range 7-300-338 Magnum rifle, and then for another $200-400 you can have the exact same scope on your practice .223-Grendel-Creedmore. You don't need to be cheap for $2900 to be a lot better than $5000. If it costs more than $400, then yeah they're not going to go too far Not to mention you'd end up with a different cheek weld with or without it. I |
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I met the guy behind the mod zero engineering at a PA gun range and got to talk with him for a while
https://www.modzerodefense.com 
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I met the guy behind the mod zero engineering at a PA gun range and got to talk with him for a while https://www.modzerodefense.com https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57f26e3b414fb59afd69a50e/t/5965409d78d1710689679d16/1499807939806/?format=2500w |
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Hi everyone!
My name is Luke and I'm the head of development for our M0 Scope Mount. I'm the guy that doc_Zox ran into in PA, the guy in the video, and the guy who's done the majority of the engineering. I need to first confirm that I am financially connected to the company Mod Zero and that we are not yet an industry member of this site. Our funds are tight at the as we prepare for launch, so we cannot at the moment afford the 6 month membership minimum to advertise. Therefore some of my answers may be inadequate. If so, please feel free to email me at [email protected] <a href="mailto:[email protected]?Subject=AR15.com Followup" target="_top">Email Luke</a> Background: this project started 1-2 years ago as a part of my independent research at Penn State. The purpose of the research was to create a method in which scopes can be shared between rifles without the need to rezero the scope. The solution we came to was that it was possible if the proprietary zero of the rifle was stored in the picatinny rail of that rifle. So we built the first zeroable picatinny rail. Our engineering and manufacturing has had many talented people involved to design the best possible version of this. Recently, the development of this technology has shifted from Penn State to MIT.
In principle, if each rifle and scope in an array are zeroed to the same common zero (as described in the graphic above), those scopes and rifles can be swapped freely while remaining properly zeroed. 3 combinations from 3 scopes and 3 rifles now becomes 9 by the addition of two of our mounts. Yes this can be a PIA to describe and the original quote is poorly described. I think that's old phrasing from our FB? The pictures you see in the OP are our final preproduction version. It's the 3rd physical iteration on the design, but probably the 20th+ from various other testing methods (CAD, Simulation, subassembly testing). In terms of the design, we essentially took everything we liked from the ELCAN and other optical systems, left out the bad parts, and threw in some novel approaches. Ok, less generic stuff because I'll ramble on. Quoted:
Looks like it'll make for a pretty high optic. Repeat-ability and POI shift are another great question and topic point. We are still in the process of comparing a M4 with a QD (ADM) mounted 4x ACOG vs the same M4 and scope with our mount. We have not found any notable increase in group size and that our mount is extremely consistent thus far. POI shift from adding/removing a scope from the Pic rail is a technical problem that's been worked on for decades. As touched upon, as long as you are using your scope mount per manufacturer directions, you shouldn't see any notable shift. There are plenty of threads/topics on QD mounts on best practice and manufacturer on AR15.com. Quoted:
Not even just cheap folks... for another $200-400 you can have the exact same scope on your practice rifle. You don't need to be cheap for $2900 to be a lot better than $5000. If it costs more than $400, then yeah they're not going to go too far The concern for holding zero and rigidity are completely valid. It's taken a lot of prototyping and tolerance reworking to get the design to where I feel comfortable with the mount. They are now rock solid and there is no perceivable play in the parts. Another feature not mentioned is that our mount has a customizable range dial. This is still in the works, but the theory is that you can swap from a red dot to a LPV and to a night vision scope while having the same method for adjusting for range. Thank you all for voicing your concerns, please keep the conversation, questions and concerns going so I can pass them on to the rest of the team. We are working on creating video demos and tests to prove the functionality of our product. If you have an external party you need/want to see test this. Let us know and we'll try to get one in their hands. Oh and the memes. If you're going to do that you've got to at least make your own and put some effort in. We get a kick out of them, but to take 30 seconds and copy a URL is weak. 
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If you have to move a scope from rifle to rifle, it seems to me like it would be a lot easier just to set the turrets to zero for the rifle you use the most, write down the DOPE for the other rifles, and dial the scope when you switch. |
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Interesting. Seems to target the segment that is too poor to afford tier 1 optics for all their rifles but not poor enough to not spend money on a niche product.
I do like the idea of having a quick zero shift device to switch between ammo types or supers/subs. Not exactly what you have here but similar idea. ETA: Also your meme game is not bad. Try doing some 'did someone tell you to go be poor somewhere else? now you dont have to!' infomercials imo. |
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Interesting. Seems to target the segment that is too poor to afford tier 1 optics for all their rifles but not poor enough to not spend money on a niche product. I do like the idea of having a quick zero shift device to switch between ammo types or supers/subs. Not exactly what you have here but similar idea. ETA: Also your meme game is not bad. Try doing some 'did someone tell you to go be poor somewhere else? now you dont have to!' infomercials imo. |
