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Posted: 4/3/2016 4:59:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2016 2:32:20 PM EDT by Tim_AZ]
So after taking one of the discovery flights a couple of weeks ago I had my first real lesson this past Friday morning in a Piper Cherokee.  We started covering communicating with the various controllers.  I taxied us out and took off and flew to the practice area and did various turns and climbs and combinations of both then spent the last half flying with IRF training goggles doing essentially the same thing.  I have a tendency to want to bank and yank so I end up porposing through my turns.  So I need to work on that.  We did two touch and go's and then I flew the pattern and landed.  It wasn't pretty and I was a little overwhelmed with the workload but I got us down without a bounce and mostly on the center line.  Total time was 1.4 and $270.

Lesson 2:

Winds were around 8kts but it ended up being bumpy as hell.  First time on the radios today (ground only).  Took off and proceeded to the practice area.  First up was emergency procedures with a simulated engine failure.  We had been talking through it so I already had a spot picked out that happened to be a small ultra-light field with a windsock.  I orbited down until I could identify which way the wind was blowing and lined us up with the most appropriate runway wind and altitude allowed.  After that we moved on to orbiting a fixed point on the ground.  I had no trouble with this and was able to nail it the first time.  We then moved on to s-turns along a road.  This was a little harder because we were getting tossed around so much but in two iterations I had it dialed in pretty well.  By this time due to the heat (it was around 90 today) and the turbulence, I'd reached my limit for the day.  We proceeded back towards TUS for what ended up being a pretty straight in approach.  This was a little more exciting because I had another aircraft at my 9 o'clock the entire way in.  Overall I had a much better landing, since I had more time to set up for it.  Total time was 1.4 again but only to $260 this time.

Lesson 3:

Landings, Landings, Landings.  6 of them in fact.  Still talking to ground but was too busy to want to run the radios in the air yet.  Beautiful weather this morning so GA traffic was steady with the usual commercial stuff.  Had to extend my downwind once and shorten my upwind once so I got a little variation in the pattern.  The throttle in this particular Cherokee isn't exactly linear so its been a little frustrating trying to chase it.  Overall I'm doing well on the landings, I just need to keep an eye on my speed and make better use of the rudder as we start to get low and slow.  Only 1.1 today but that was enough and another $260.
Link Posted: 4/3/2016 6:02:53 PM EDT
Welcome to the club... it's a habit worse than crack.

Stick with it and fly at least twice a week to retain the last lesson, otherwise you spend half the next lesson re-learning the last one.
Link Posted: 4/3/2016 10:56:53 PM EDT
So, on your first flight lesson you flew under foggles and landed?!?

Maybe there's a different teaching method now but I've never heard of anyone doing that on their first lesson. It's usually just straight and level and some turns. I don't think i landed until I had several lessons and actually knew how to control the plane in 3 axes.  I think all that you did would have turned me off.

Link Posted: 4/3/2016 11:09:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By splanchnic:
So, on your first flight lesson you flew under foggles and landed?!?

Maybe there's a different teaching method now but I've never heard of anyone doing that on their first lesson. It's usually just straight and level and some turns. I don't think i landed until I had several lessons and actually knew how to control the plane in 3 axes.  I think all that you did would have turned me off.

View Quote


I was exhausted but I'm not your typical student.  I've been around aviation all of my life and have quite a bit of un-logged stick time in various aircraft.  I am however learning that I don't know as much as I thought I did.
Link Posted: 4/4/2016 2:49:15 AM EDT
Awesome man!

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Originally Posted By Tim_AZ:
I am however learning that I don't know as much as I thought I did.
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A wise man (I think it was Socrates) once said, "True knowledge comes from knowing that you know nothing at all".
Link Posted: 4/4/2016 7:11:25 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By splanchnic:
So, on your first flight lesson you flew under foggles and landed?!?

Maybe there's a different teaching method now but I've never heard of anyone doing that on their first lesson. It's usually just straight and level and some turns. I don't think i landed until I had several lessons and actually knew how to control the plane in 3 axes.  I think all that you did would have turned me off.

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I don't get it either. You should be doing T & G way before instrument training.
Link Posted: 4/4/2016 7:48:32 AM EDT
Common core flight training.
Link Posted: 4/4/2016 8:30:18 AM EDT
Don't let your instructor get too comfortable with you. I've got a feeling good students are the ones to watch out for in that instructors let their guard down and shit can happen fast.
Link Posted: 4/4/2016 8:48:45 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By a555:
Don't let your instructor get too comfortable with you. I've got a feeling good students are the ones to watch out for in that instructors let their guard down and shit can happen fast.
View Quote


That's the truth.  A long time ago, I ended up in an unintentional spin, after I got a little too comfortable with the guy that was the best student I ever had.
Link Posted: 4/5/2016 10:57:18 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Dr_Nimslow:


That's the truth.  A long time ago, I ended up in an unintentional spin, after I got a little too comfortable with the guy that was the best student I ever had.
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Originally Posted By Dr_Nimslow:
Originally Posted By a555:
Don't let your instructor get too comfortable with you. I've got a feeling good students are the ones to watch out for in that instructors let their guard down and shit can happen fast.


That's the truth.  A long time ago, I ended up in an unintentional spin, after I got a little too comfortable with the guy that was the best student I ever had.


Good students scared me but not as bad as other instructors.  Bad students were fine because you're always on your toes...
Link Posted: 4/5/2016 4:02:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Spooky130:


Good students scared me but not as bad as other instructors.  Bad students were fine because you're always on your toes...
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Originally Posted By Spooky130:
Originally Posted By Dr_Nimslow:
Originally Posted By a555:
Don't let your instructor get too comfortable with you. I've got a feeling good students are the ones to watch out for in that instructors let their guard down and shit can happen fast.


That's the truth.  A long time ago, I ended up in an unintentional spin, after I got a little too comfortable with the guy that was the best student I ever had.


Good students scared me but not as bad as other instructors.  Bad students were fine because you're always on your toes...

There's nothing more dangerous than two instructors in an airplane.
Link Posted: 4/6/2016 8:50:37 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By hauslp:

There's nothing more dangerous than two instructors in an airplane.
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Originally Posted By hauslp:
Originally Posted By Spooky130:
Originally Posted By Dr_Nimslow:
Originally Posted By a555:
Don't let your instructor get too comfortable with you. I've got a feeling good students are the ones to watch out for in that instructors let their guard down and shit can happen fast.


That's the truth.  A long time ago, I ended up in an unintentional spin, after I got a little too comfortable with the guy that was the best student I ever had.


Good students scared me but not as bad as other instructors.  Bad students were fine because you're always on your toes...

There's nothing more dangerous than two instructors in an airplane.


two captains.
Link Posted: 4/6/2016 9:37:46 PM EDT
OP updated with lesson 2.
Link Posted: 4/7/2016 10:01:10 PM EDT
Ouch. Those prices make me cringe. May be time to start considering buying your own ship. Taildragger cessnas, Tomahawks and some older 172s can be had for < $20,000. Fuel is pretty easy to find under $3.50/gal and those planes likely will cost you less than $50/hr wet, not including fixed costs like tie-downs and insurance.
Link Posted: 4/7/2016 11:03:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By splanchnic:
So, on your first flight lesson you flew under foggles and landed?!?

Maybe there's a different teaching method now but I've never heard of anyone doing that on their first lesson. It's usually just straight and level and some turns. I don't think i landed until I had several lessons and actually knew how to control the plane in 3 axes.  I think all that you did would have turned me off.

View Quote


I took my instructor for a ride on my first lesson.  He never touched the controls.  RC and Flight Sim.
Link Posted: 4/7/2016 11:10:55 PM EDT
I'm a prior USAF controller. Haven't controlled in 10 years but if you have any questions as far as it goes from the tower's side of things I'll gladly do my best to answer or at least point you in the right direction.
Link Posted: 4/7/2016 11:31:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By a555:
Ouch. Those prices make me cringe. May be time to start considering buying your own ship. Taildragger cessnas, Tomahawks and some older 172s can be had for < $20,000. Fuel is pretty easy to find under $3.50/gal and those planes likely will cost you less than $50/hr wet, not including fixed costs like tie-downs and insurance.
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I'd love to own a Piper Cub.  I've seen them in the $38-45K range but between that, insurance and hangar fees I really can't afford it right now.
Link Posted: 4/8/2016 11:25:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2016 11:27:04 AM EDT by Screechjet1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dr_Nimslow:


That's the truth.  A long time ago, I ended up in an unintentional spin, after I got a little too comfortable with the guy that was the best student I ever had.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dr_Nimslow:
Originally Posted By a555:
Don't let your instructor get too comfortable with you. I've got a feeling good students are the ones to watch out for in that instructors let their guard down and shit can happen fast.


That's the truth.  A long time ago, I ended up in an unintentional spin, after I got a little too comfortable with the guy that was the best student I ever had.


Its your good students that will kill you. My closest was my outstanding student putting me an approach turn stall at hour 7.9 of instructing on a 95F day.
Link Posted: 4/9/2016 2:33:20 PM EDT
Lesson 3 in the OP.  Next flight not until 4/15 unfortunately .
Link Posted: 4/13/2016 3:50:26 PM EDT
Where in AZ?

I finished my multi engine commercial at KSDL in March.
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 8:05:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CNZ302:
Where in AZ?

I finished my multi engine commercial at KSDL in March.
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Tucson
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 8:06:33 PM EDT
No flight today.  Winds at 25 gusting to 35.
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 8:21:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tim_AZ:
No flight today.  Winds at 25 gusting to 35.
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Aw, you missed a good lesson.  
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 10:43:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tim_AZ:
No flight today.  Winds at 25 gusting to 35.
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We landed at KTUS around 14:00, it was blowing pretty good, and a miserable ride below 10,000.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 2:08:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Dr_Nimslow:


We landed at KTUS around 14:00, it was blowing pretty good, and a miserable ride below 10,000.
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Originally Posted By Dr_Nimslow:
Originally Posted By Tim_AZ:
No flight today.  Winds at 25 gusting to 35.


We landed at KTUS around 14:00, it was blowing pretty good, and a miserable ride below 10,000.


Shit, man, I was over at Pima County!
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 9:43:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Screechjet1:


Shit, man, I was over at Pima County!
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Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By Dr_Nimslow:
Originally Posted By Tim_AZ:
No flight today.  Winds at 25 gusting to 35.


We landed at KTUS around 14:00, it was blowing pretty good, and a miserable ride below 10,000.


Shit, man, I was over at Pima County!


We were only there for 30 minutes or so.  I tried to convince the boss to find a reason to get stuck there, so we could go over to the Pima museum, but no luck..Got an unplanned 20 hours at home though.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 3:05:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tim_AZ:
No flight today.  Winds at 25 gusting to 35.
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Ahh you chose one of those safe flight schools
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 4:40:40 PM EDT
Are you at a busy controlled field?     1.4 is a little much, it sounds like he's milkin you a little.    No problem with that, as long as your aptitude is as high as you claim it to be, you should be able to get enough out of it.

The other thing that is a little odd, is how the lessons are all over the place.   No structure and no plan, just whatever the instructor feels like.    

Again, not really a problem, if you have a good CFI, with an exceptional student.    It's just unusual, and for a very good reason.  




Link Posted: 4/17/2016 5:32:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Are you at a busy controlled field?     1.4 is a little much, it sounds like he's milkin you a little.    No problem with that, as long as your aptitude is as high as you claim it to be, you should be able to get enough out of it.

The other thing that is a little odd, is how the lessons are all over the place.   No structure and no plan, just whatever the instructor feels like.    

Again, not really a problem, if you have a good CFI, with an exceptional student.    It's just unusual, and for a very good reason.  

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I was thinking this too.  Even when I got my private part 61 we still followed a 141 syllabus.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 2:04:47 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Are you at a busy controlled field?     1.4 is a little much, it sounds like he's milkin you a little.    No problem with that, as long as your aptitude is as high as you claim it to be, you should be able to get enough out of it.

The other thing that is a little odd, is how the lessons are all over the place.   No structure and no plan, just whatever the instructor feels like.    

Again, not really a problem, if you have a good CFI, with an exceptional student.    It's just unusual, and for a very good reason.  




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I think he's flying out of KTUS (atleast my understanding of it), I'm probably wrong.

If it is KTUS (Tucson Int'l) it can be pretty busy, parallel runways with light civilian/GA on the short runway and Mil/Commercial traffic on the other.

Link Posted: 4/18/2016 9:03:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tim_AZ:


I'd love to own a Piper Cub.  I've seen them in the $38-45K range but between that, insurance and hangar fees I really can't afford it right now.
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Originally Posted By Tim_AZ:
Originally Posted By a555:
Ouch. Those prices make me cringe. May be time to start considering buying your own ship. Taildragger cessnas, Tomahawks and some older 172s can be had for < $20,000. Fuel is pretty easy to find under $3.50/gal and those planes likely will cost you less than $50/hr wet, not including fixed costs like tie-downs and insurance.


I'd love to own a Piper Cub.  I've seen them in the $38-45K range but between that, insurance and hangar fees I really can't afford it right now.


Cub is like the WORST plane to own for value. They get about a 10K premium just for being a cub. They normally don't have an electrical system, so you have to hand prop them. They do about 70MPH. Get a Citabria 7ECA. They cost about the same, but have electrical systems and radios. They can be flown at night and cruise about 105MPH.

A Cub can hold about 20# of stuff. My 7ECA can carry 100# of luggage.

Cubs are GREAT, but they are to own a Cub, not have a useful plane.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 2:32:39 PM EDT
I've been out on travel and didn't get to fly again today due to an oil leak.  To answer a few questions.  Yes I'm flying out of Tucson International.  I wouldn't really call it busy but it is controlled.  I'm logging the Hobbs/Tach times so I'm not worried about getting shorted.  We are jumping around a bit but its been more to see where I'm at so we can make the most of training time.  I've got three flights scheduled for next week so hopefully some progress will be made.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 1:37:51 PM EDT
Welcome to the club!



Friendly tips for an early student:




VSI and Trim are your best friend. Master both of these and flying will become much easier. Light, docile control inputs make for beautiful flying.




Pitch for airspeed.




Radio: Who you are, Where you are, what you want to do.




Fly often!
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