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Posted: 2/25/2005 5:01:37 AM EST
About how much does it cost to have a lawyer do the work to create an LLC?
Same question for "do it yourself".
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:03:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/25/2005 5:08:29 AM EST by Daytona955i]
I think in NY it comes out to like $100 maybe???


That's just for the paperwork, NYS has a $200 filling fee.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:07:18 AM EST
BTW, Are you set on forming an LLC? Are you doing it strictly for tax purposes? The liability issue? Are you the only person forming it? I don't know about your state, but in NY there are LLP(limited liability partnerships) too, as well as s and c corporations, you should weigh the pro's and con's of each before choosing how to incorporate.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:08:23 AM EST
in SC it is $110 to form one yourself.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:09:45 AM EST
Louisiana has a $75 state licensing fee.

There are websites where they charge anywhere from $100 to $500 to prepare your paperwork all your stuff for you.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:10:20 AM EST
$600 attorney fees, and get an attorney your age
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:11:21 AM EST

TN is $300 min. to start for up to 3 memebers. After that you must pay $50 per member. I just stated mine. Then you need a Fed tax ID number from your CPA. I think that cost a $100.00 or so.


Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:16:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/25/2005 5:18:41 AM EST by BustinCaps]
www.incnow.com

incorporate in Delaware. Costs $480 and you get a seal etc, plus the required in state registration and representation. Best tax laws and pro-business courts in the nation at the moment.

on edit: It only costs $298 for the basic package, but my attorney recommended getting all the add-ons. I don't regret taking his advice.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:16:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
BTW, Are you set on forming an LLC? Are you doing it strictly for tax purposes? The liability issue? Are you the only person forming it? I don't know about your state, but in NY there are LLP(limited liability partnerships) too, as well as s and c corporations, you should weigh the pro's and con's of each before choosing how to incorporate.



I'm starting a nurse consulting business and would also like to have a non-specific title so my wife's painting "business" can be included. She sells painting she does so that would be mostly to write off supplies, but mine would be for protecting my personal assets. That make sense?
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:22:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By HELOBRAVO:

Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
BTW, Are you set on forming an LLC? Are you doing it strictly for tax purposes? The liability issue? Are you the only person forming it? I don't know about your state, but in NY there are LLP(limited liability partnerships) too, as well as s and c corporations, you should weigh the pro's and con's of each before choosing how to incorporate.



I'm starting a nurse consulting business and would also like to have a non-specific title so my wife's painting "business" can be included. She sells painting she does so that would be mostly to write off supplies, but mine would be for protecting my personal assets. That make sense?



In that case, you may be interested in Delawares series LLC.

www.incnow.com/services.shtml#Anchor-6
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:25:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/25/2005 5:26:25 AM EST by Daytona955i]

Originally Posted By HELOBRAVO:

Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
BTW, Are you set on forming an LLC? Are you doing it strictly for tax purposes? The liability issue? Are you the only person forming it? I don't know about your state, but in NY there are LLP(limited liability partnerships) too, as well as s and c corporations, you should weigh the pro's and con's of each before choosing how to incorporate.



I'm starting a nurse consulting business and would also like to have a non-specific title so my wife's painting "business" can be included. She sells painting she does so that would be mostly to write off supplies, but mine would be for protecting my personal assets. That make sense?



Would a "nurse consulting business" incure any sort of mal practice liability or anything like that?

I think it's great you want to incorporate to protect your personal assets, many people haven't had the forethought, but that protection hasn't shown to ALWAYS hold up in court. Sometimes they do go after you personally with a civil suit, and they have won.

That's why it's "limited" liability. Still better than proprietary though.

If your state allows LLP's it might protect your wife if your part of the business is ever in court.

I'm not trying to push the LLP's, I'm just saying, choosing to incorporate, and then doing it is a huge step for any business, and something that a lot of people don't think about enough before launching a venture.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:27:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By MCTS:
Then you need a Fed tax ID number from your CPA. I think that cost a $100.00 or so.



you got hosed, a fed tax ID or EIN is free from the .gov
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:30:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By MCTS:
Then you need a Fed tax ID number from your CPA. I think that cost a $100.00 or so.



you got hosed, a fed tax ID or EIN is free from the .gov



Probably had a CPA do a few things for them as well as hooking them up with a EIN.

I would hope so at least. CPA's are usually trustworthy people these days... after all that Enron jazz.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:33:36 AM EST

I just looked to see if he charged for it. I can't really tell. I received a Finacial review for $250.00 and my tax ID. I would say I did pretty good. Most CPA's charge $500.00 plus for reviews.



Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:41:51 AM EST
In PA you can do it online (even as a foreign corp) and the cost is $125. Takes about 15 minutes. EIN can be had online or with a quick phone call, and it's free. PA had the paperwork back to me in 3 weeks. The expensive part was advertising the existence of the LLC in the local Bar Assoc. newsletter, and small local paper.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:47:14 AM EST
1st thing you do - Go down and get a book at your locel book shop - It will be called "Setting up a business in YOUR STATE" or "Doind Buisiness in YOUR STATE" they have a series of these in 8.5 x 11 form for EVERY state. We had them as required reading for new franchises in my last company.

Goes through the pro and cons. LLC, S Corp et al.

For an LLC - DO IT YOURSELF - DO NOT pay anyone to set it up. (IMO and having set up many of these!)

You basically have two tasks.

(1) Contact your Secratary of State office - They will get you the paperwok or you can pull it off line. For my 3 personla LLCs it was about $75 each to set up with the state and then $15 per year to maintain. Very very easy to do. BUT get your EIN at the same time- (See step two)

(2) go on line or to your local Social Security office and get the form for filing a new EIN (Employee Identification Number) - FORM SS-4. Even if you are not going to have employees - this is your Federal Tax ID #. I assume since you are talking about an LLC - you are looking for the LL Part! That would be that advantage of an EIN for you. Makes it a stand along gig - not your SS number behind it!

Once you have your SS-4 Form filled out - You will call the regional Social Security office - the hold can take a while - They will go over the form with you and give you the EIN right then. You will then mail in the form so they have it for their files. They are very easy to work with - whihc is strange for who they are!

ALSO - A new law last year allows you to set up what they call "SINGLE MEMBER" LLCs. this is great if you can go one person - Then you DO NO have to file a seperate tax return for the LLC and/or the new EIN - You simply roll it into your current personal taxes. Save smoney and time!

Good luck!
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:55:52 AM EST
I have heard from several sources that the fees add up to about $2,000. That's with professional help.

It's probably best to get professional advice setting it up. These decisions do have ramifications.

Link Posted: 2/25/2005 6:02:35 AM EST
I had a real estate lawyer form an LLC to hold rental property. Due to other non rental personal holdings this LLC needed to be as bullet proof as possible. I could not risk having the vial pierced due to missing a step or a clerical error.

Anyway, I did my homework and found one of Portland’s best firms. $1000 to form an LLC soup to nuts. I gladly paid the premium to know its done right.


Link Posted: 3/15/2005 10:12:42 AM EST
tag
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 10:21:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By MCTS:
Then you need a Fed tax ID number from your CPA. I think that cost a $100.00 or so.



you got hosed, a fed tax ID or EIN is free from the .gov



Exactly. There is NO charge for getting an EIN.

HH
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 10:29:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 10:41:41 AM EST by PeteCO]
There seems to be some kind of LLC craze these days for some reason. If you will be making pretty decent income, the tax benefits are much better with a Corporation, and are significant (IMHO) enough to more than make up for the marginally more complex paperwork issues.

Glad to see you are looking into an entity though - I am continually amazed by people who chose to operate as sole proprietorships.

BTW, Colorado is 99 cents for the filing, and of course the EIN is free.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 10:36:55 AM EST
$225 in lawyer fees, $80 filing fees, $125 accoutant fee, $100 tax id number for the state.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 10:41:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
There seems to be some kind of LLC craze these days for some reason. If you will be making pretty decent income, the tax benefits are much better with a Corporation, and are significant (IMHO) enough to more than make up for the marginally more complex paperwork issues.

Glad to see you are looking into an entity though - I am continually amazed by people who chose to operate as sole proprietorships.



You can convert your LLC to a Corp.

That is my plan after I get more money flowing in.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 10:42:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 10:44:55 AM EST by PeteCO]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
There seems to be some kind of LLC craze these days for some reason. If you will be making pretty decent income, the tax benefits are much better with a Corporation, and are significant (IMHO) enough to more than make up for the marginally more complex paperwork issues.

Glad to see you are looking into an entity though - I am continually amazed by people who chose to operate as sole proprietorships.



You can convert your LLC to a Corp.

That is my plan after I get more money flowing in.



Then why not start out as a Corp? Take an S election if you think you'll lose money the first year, or just carry it over. The "conversion" is actually a Corp buying the assets of the LLC. An LLC is deisregarded by the IRS, and files as a partnership or SP. I think an LLC can file as a S-Corp, though I don't see why you'd do that and not just organize as an S-Corp to begin with.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 10:43:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By PeteCO:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
There seems to be some kind of LLC craze these days for some reason. If you will be making pretty decent income, the tax benefits are much better with a Corporation, and are significant (IMHO) enough to more than make up for the marginally more complex paperwork issues.

Glad to see you are looking into an entity though - I am continually amazed by people who chose to operate as sole proprietorships.



You can convert your LLC to a Corp.

That is my plan after I get more money flowing in.



Then why not start out as a Corp? Take an S election if you think you'll lose money the first year, or just carry it over.



Because I did not want to have to keep up with having meetings with myself etc.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 10:46:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By PeteCO:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
There seems to be some kind of LLC craze these days for some reason. If you will be making pretty decent income, the tax benefits are much better with a Corporation, and are significant (IMHO) enough to more than make up for the marginally more complex paperwork issues.

Glad to see you are looking into an entity though - I am continually amazed by people who chose to operate as sole proprietorships.



You can convert your LLC to a Corp.

That is my plan after I get more money flowing in.



Then why not start out as a Corp? Take an S election if you think you'll lose money the first year, or just carry it over.



Because I did not want to have to keep up with having meetings with myself etc.



Well, you still need to keep records and hold member meetings. The paperwork really is insignificant compared to the tax advantages. But whatever works for you.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:22:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By DavidC:
In PA you can do it online (even as a foreign corp) and the cost is $125. Takes about 15 minutes. EIN can be had online or with a quick phone call, and it's free. PA had the paperwork back to me in 3 weeks. The expensive part was advertising the existence of the LLC in the local Bar Assoc. newsletter, and small local paper.



DavidC - Thanks for the info. I just used the site to register an LLC. Is it required to advertise your LLC? Can you give me any details? I want to do things right. The PA website didn't say anything about it.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:31:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By fq1234:

Originally Posted By DavidC:
In PA you can do it online (even as a foreign corp) and the cost is $125. Takes about 15 minutes. EIN can be had online or with a quick phone call, and it's free. PA had the paperwork back to me in 3 weeks. The expensive part was advertising the existence of the LLC in the local Bar Assoc. newsletter, and small local paper.



DavidC - Thanks for the info. I just used the site to register an LLC. Is it required to advertise your LLC? Can you give me any details? I want to do things right. The PA website didn't say anything about it.





Uh, you might want to do a little research before you get the EIN and obligate yourself to all sorts of filings.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:32:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By HELOBRAVO:
About how much does it cost to have a lawyer do the work to create an LLC?
Same question for "do it yourself".



Do it yourself.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:47:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 1:28:12 PM EST by fq1234]

Originally Posted By PeteCO:


Uh, you might want to do a little research before you get the EIN and obligate yourself to all sorts of filings.



Maybe my post sounded like I jumped right in. I met with a lawyer and a CPA beforehand (separately). They explained the process to me. I filed myself because there really wasn't a need to have the attorney do it for me, he was fine with it also. My lawyer mentioned the advertising but it wasn't clear to me what exactly I needed to do. I thought I'd ask DavidC, who is also in PA, so I don't have to go back and pay for another office visit. The online registration was pretty easy. I am the only member of the LLC and the company will not be turning a profit so there will be very little work involved.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:58:22 PM EST
Setting up an LLC via a lawyer cost me about four hundred bucks ten years ago.

My wife and I are the participating entities, and there are no meetings or record keeping or yearly fees. It is a fairly simple way to gain some liability protection for a small business.

It is not bullet proof, but it is cheap and simple. If I am ever sued as a business entity, they cannot go after personal property or any tools that I need to operate my business. They can go after non-esential things owned by the business, which in my case would be about a thousand dollars worth of redundant or broken tools.

They can't take my house, or my truck, or the bulk of my tools and equipment. Cheap peace of mind in this sue-happy society. The one thing I DO have to be mindful of is that any billing or advertising has to have my business name with the LLC tacked onto the end, so that people are aware that I operate as an LLC. The checks paid to me do not have to have LLC on the Pay To line, but the magnetic signs on my truck have to reflect my LLC status.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 1:07:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 1:07:40 PM EST by Happyshooter]
Typical phone call:

"Someone told me you are good business lawyers, how much to set up an LLC for me and my brother?"

"I need to sit down with both of you and make sure an LLC is what you need."

"Well, how much is it?"

"As an average, for a simple LLC it would be about $1,000"

"That's too much, a guy told me I can do the paperwork myself for $125"

"Okay, have fun"

"Is that going to work?

"I don't know, I would have to review the paperwork after you fill it out."

"How much does that cost?"

"$1,000"

"That's not fair"
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 1:36:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By fq1234:

Originally Posted By PeteCO:


Uh, you might want to do a little research before you get the EIN and obligate yourself to all sorts of filings.



Maybe my post sounded like I jumped right in. I met with a lawyer and a CPA beforehand (separately). They explained the process to me. I filed myself because there really wasn't a need to have the attorney do it for me, he was fine with it also. My lawyer mentioned the advertising but it wasn't clear to me what exactly I needed to do. I thought I'd ask DavidC, who is also in PA, so I don't have to go back and pay for another office visit. The online registration was pretty easy. I am the only member of the LLC and the company will not be turning a profit so there will be very little work involved.



Gotcha, nevermind. It's just that I have seen friends do this, and then forget about it, until the IRS starts sending nasty letters.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 2:20:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By PeteCO:

Originally Posted By fq1234:

Originally Posted By PeteCO:


Uh, you might want to do a little research before you get the EIN and obligate yourself to all sorts of filings.



Maybe my post sounded like I jumped right in. I met with a lawyer and a CPA beforehand (separately). They explained the process to me. I filed myself because there really wasn't a need to have the attorney do it for me, he was fine with it also. My lawyer mentioned the advertising but it wasn't clear to me what exactly I needed to do. I thought I'd ask DavidC, who is also in PA, so I don't have to go back and pay for another office visit. The online registration was pretty easy. I am the only member of the LLC and the company will not be turning a profit so there will be very little work involved.



Gotcha, nevermind. It's just that I have seen friends do this, and then forget about it, until the IRS starts sending nasty letters.



Yeah, I can't forget about it. I'm using it for my NFA applications. If I forget about it, it will cost me $200 per item to transfer to myself!
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 2:30:46 PM EST
A pretty good book on setting up and running LLCs:

www.nolo.com/product.cfm/objectID/62190C22-D83F-4147-89C2A70041B9633B/111/

Link Posted: 3/15/2005 2:36:03 PM EST
The IRS frowns on businesses that operate at a loss deliberately.

I forget how much I paid to set up my New York LLC, but I think it was maybe $400 with a lawyer's help (I probably paid too much but I was doing it for the first time and didn't want to make any misaktes). In NY one of the requirements is to put a notice you are opening the business in the newspaper (the lawyer took care of that for me). I currently pay $100 a year to keep the LLC going (thanks, New York! not.). There is no extra paperwork, I file my LLC's income and expenses on my personal tax returns.

Corporations have the drawbacks of lots of extra paperwork and also corporate income tax. But it makes things easier if you are planning to grow into a large business quickly and need to divide shares among investors.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 2:38:40 PM EST
I have been an LLC for about 4 years now. Not much to it. Lawyer sets it up. You renew it every year. Accountant does the taxes. I concentrate on making money. Fairly easy.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 2:39:04 PM EST
tag
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:34:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Happyshooter:
Typical phone call:

"Someone told me you are good business lawyers, how much to set up an LLC for me and my brother?"

"I need to sit down with both of you and make sure an LLC is what you need."

"Well, how much is it?"

"As an average, for a simple LLC it would be about $1,000"

"That's too much, a guy told me I can do the paperwork myself for $125"

"Okay, have fun"

"Is that going to work?

"I don't know, I would have to review the paperwork after you fill it out."

"How much does that cost?"

"$1,000"

"That's not fair"



Yeah, and if you're an idiot you can also pay someone $60/hr to fix your computer. A one man operation forming an LLC is not rocket science, and if you want there are plenty of small books at the bookstore that explain different business entities and how they work.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:48:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Happyshooter:
Typical phone call:

"Someone told me you are good business lawyers, how much to set up an LLC for me and my brother?"

"I need to sit down with both of you and make sure an LLC is what you need."

"Well, how much is it?"

"As an average, for a simple LLC it would be about $1,000"

"That's too much, a guy told me I can do the paperwork myself for $125"

"Okay, have fun"

"Is that going to work?

"I don't know, I would have to review the paperwork after you fill it out."

"How much does that cost?"

"$1,000"

"That's not fair"



That's about what I charge for a small (1-3 owner) corporation or LLC. If there are more owners, or if there is any possibility the company may ever amount to more than a "mom and pop" operation, it costs more. I always tell folks they can get the docs to be filed off the Secretary of Stat's website and do it themselves for $50. Then I get to charge big bucks when they screw it up and sharedholders/members that were the best of friends before can't stand each other. Like oil filters, pay me now, or pay me later.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:01:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 6:02:28 PM EST by Wags]

Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
www.incnow.com

incorporate in Delaware. Costs $480 and you get a seal etc, plus the required in state registration and representation. Best tax laws and pro-business courts in the nation at the moment.

on edit: It only costs $298 for the basic package, but my attorney recommended getting all the add-ons. I don't regret taking his advice.



This is really overrated for most small entities unless the principals live in Delaware or Nevada or one of the new "corporate havens." And there are no real tax savings. You are going to be taxed in just about every state where you do business (franchise and income taxes are generally apportioned by the amount of capital used and income earned in a state) and where you have property (ad valorem taxes) regardless where the entity is incorporated. Most small entities are better off organizing in the state where the principal(s) live.

I had a client do this against my recommendation because a business acquaintence told him he could avoid taxes doing this. Got stung with some significant penalties for not paying taxes for income earned and property located in Mississippi.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:02:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By fq1234:
Yeah, I can't forget about it. I'm using it for my NFA applications. If I forget about it, it will cost me $200 per item to transfer to myself!




Originally Posted By dmaas:
The IRS frowns on businesses that operate at a loss deliberately.



To avoid any IRS frowning, can you use a non profit for NFA applications?


Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:08:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 6:09:30 PM EST by Wags]

Originally Posted By silent1:

Originally Posted By fq1234:
Yeah, I can't forget about it. I'm using it for my NFA applications. If I forget about it, it will cost me $200 per item to transfer to myself!




Originally Posted By dmaas:
The IRS frowns on businesses that operate at a loss deliberately.



To avoid any IRS frowning, can you use a non profit for NFA applications?





Highly unlikely. Nonprofits have to fit into one of a number of listed exempt activities/purposes. A shooting club might work, but just for a person to own an automatic weapon, uh-uh. Also, you can't "own" a nonprofit like you do a for-profit entity.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:32:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 6:35:50 PM EST by PeteCO]

Originally Posted By SNorman:

Originally Posted By Happyshooter:
Typical phone call:

"Someone told me you are good business lawyers, how much to set up an LLC for me and my brother?"

"I need to sit down with both of you and make sure an LLC is what you need."

"Well, how much is it?"

"As an average, for a simple LLC it would be about $1,000"

"That's too much, a guy told me I can do the paperwork myself for $125"

"Okay, have fun"

"Is that going to work?

"I don't know, I would have to review the paperwork after you fill it out."

"How much does that cost?"

"$1,000"

"That's not fair"



Yeah, and if you're an idiot you can also pay someone $60/hr to fix your computer. A one man operation forming an LLC is not rocket science, and if you want there are plenty of small books at the bookstore that explain different business entities and how they work.



Most reasons I've heard for people forming LLC's are grossly misinformed. They just hear from their buddy how he wanted to come up with some product and "run it through an LLC" and how the magical LLC has almost no paperwork whatsoever. "Hey, its easy!"

I have heard very few people who were not in the financial sector talk about the pros and cons of different entities, or even simpler stuff like business deductions with competence exceeding that of my dog.

It's not hard, but the people who get burned the worst are the people who won't research anything.
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