Posted: 6/1/2024 8:15:06 AM EDT
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Link By Ayai Tomisawa June 1, 2024 at 8:46 AM UTC Companies including Toyota Motor Corp. have informed Japan’s transport ministry of irregularities at their firms, following a series of safety tests violations by Toyota group affiliates, Yomiuri reported. The transport ministry instructed 23 automakers and 62 equipment manufacturers to conduct a new internal investigation in January to February and to report whether any data falsification or other violations occurred over the past 10 years. The ministry and automakers including Toyota are planning to announce their findings as early as Monday, the paper said, without providing details. A spokesman for Toyota said the company hasn’t made an announcement on the matter. Toyota saw several production halts after fraud was identified at two units. In December, an internal probe of Daihatsu Motor Co. showed that most of its vehicles had not been properly tested for collision safety. Toyota Industries Corp. also suspended all engine shipments in January after an investigation revealed it had falsified power output figures. |
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Quoted: Yet Toyota is near the top in crash test results. LOL, I worked in safety for some of the divisions that supplied Toyota cars(not trucks or mid size SUVs). This has been an ongoing problem for decades with them. The really funny thing is people who buy the latest Toyota think they are getting something new. Half the tech in a toyota, especially the safety components are exactly the same parts from at least the 90s and its bad. Its not designed for safety, just cost and weight. Toyota and Japan have known of these problems and have fought class action suites-tooth and nail and refuse to change out the bad parts. GM used to use the exact same parts on their lowest end cars, but after the lawsuits I think they dropped the sub assemblies. |
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Quoted: LOL, I worked in safety for some of the divisions that supplied Toyota cars(not trucks or mid size SUVs). This has been an ongoing problem for decades with them. The really funny thing is people who buy the latest Toyota think they are getting something new. Half the tech in a toyota, especially the safety components are exactly the same parts from at least the 90s and its bad. Its not designed for safety, just cost and weight. Toyota and Japan have known of these problems and have fought class action suites-tooth and nail and refuse to change out the bad parts. GM used to use the exact same parts on their lowest end cars, but after the lawsuits I think they dropped the sub assemblies. Are we talking seatbelt assemblies or airbag modules? I have made seatbelt assembly stamping dies and my Dad worked on airbag control systems for half of his career, be interesting to know what the issue is. |
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This was Daihatsu designs, so almost all small economy cars in ASEA, MX and GCC markets - initial indications. Yaris is one nameplate peeps in the States will be familiar with, tho it's a Sedan. Axia, Agya, not so much. There's a couple hybrids as well. This initial was self-reported by Toyota. Attached File Attached File Attached File It's much wider than Bloomberg indicates - over 5 dozen models over 30 years.  Article mentioned Daihatsu issue previous this year. It failed to mention issues at TIC - falsification of power output in diesels 10 different models and Hino - false efficiency and emissions. But falsification has been found widely across Japanese industry over the last decade - Hitachi, Kobe Metals, Japan Steel, Toray, Mitsubishi Electric. Its less a Toyota problem than a Japanese Corp habit. |
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You nailed it, the seat belt ratcheting assembly(large assembly in the B pillar) and cross bars for the doors specifically. The seat belts themselves had some sort of issues as well but I am not familiar with that, and I think they fixed that one at least. The companies that make the garbage are Higuchi and Takata. The parts are mostly for all toyota cars Corrolla and lighter but possibly the Camry. Just about every light car mfg used to and possibly still does use their parts. One reason why I refuse to get into small Japanese cars. Usually higher end or larger cars get better sub components, so I am not familiar with whats going in things like the Avalon/ES350 etc. I also bailed and refused to work with either of those companies when I saw how shitty they parts were about 10 years ago. I did follow it for awhile after that and nothing changed. I think Honda bailed too, they used them for a long time. They seem to have made a real effort to fix safety and it appears to be good. |
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Quoted: Article reads as though Toyota self reported misconduct by their subs after catching them. Did I read that wrong? That's how it been reported. In at least Malaysia, although there were short cuts in certification, JPJ (Malay Road Ministry) says all vehicles retested have been deemed safe, meet standards and are recertified correctly. Here's the info JPJ made public. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1X4U8N3EfKq0i7b9DBcnRVjmbZESHLaHT |
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Quoted: LOL, I worked in safety for some of the divisions that supplied Toyota cars(not trucks or mid size SUVs). This has been an ongoing problem for decades with them. The really funny thing is people who buy the latest Toyota think they are getting something new. Half the tech in a toyota, especially the safety components are exactly the same parts from at least the 90s and its bad. Its not designed for safety, just cost and weight. Toyota and Japan have known of these problems and have fought class action suites-tooth and nail and refuse to change out the bad parts. GM used to use the exact same parts on their lowest end cars, but after the lawsuits I think they dropped the sub assemblies. Quoted: Quoted: Yet Toyota is near the top in crash test results. LOL, I worked in safety for some of the divisions that supplied Toyota cars(not trucks or mid size SUVs). This has been an ongoing problem for decades with them. The really funny thing is people who buy the latest Toyota think they are getting something new. Half the tech in a toyota, especially the safety components are exactly the same parts from at least the 90s and its bad. Its not designed for safety, just cost and weight. Toyota and Japan have known of these problems and have fought class action suites-tooth and nail and refuse to change out the bad parts. GM used to use the exact same parts on their lowest end cars, but after the lawsuits I think they dropped the sub assemblies. Given your concern did you ever make contact with plaintiff atty in the class action suits filed? |
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Quoted: I bet the collision issues are JDM or 3rd world markets only. But engine issues? Ugh. Kharn We knew years ago they were very sketchy with some of their engine power numbers. When the testing procedure requirements were updated in the early 2000's or maybe it was late 90's I think their Camry engine dropped 20 horsepower lol. |
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Quoted: We knew years ago they were very sketchy with some of their engine power numbers. When the testing procedure requirements were updated in the early 2000's or maybe it was late 90's I think their Camry engine dropped 20 horsepower lol. Quoted: Quoted: I bet the collision issues are JDM or 3rd world markets only. But engine issues? Ugh. Kharn We knew years ago they were very sketchy with some of their engine power numbers. When the testing procedure requirements were updated in the early 2000's or maybe it was late 90's I think their Camry engine dropped 20 horsepower lol. @madcap3k The standard changed, more than a few times. Toyota wasn't the only mfg who tested under new standards in '04 which reduced "loopholes" (tho it's better understood as lack of consistent and specific requirements). There've been revisions which impacted rated output as they went in place at various times going back to the change from SAE Gross to SAE Net. Many mfg chose the most advantageous engine configurations under the standard in place. When revisions took place, new rated outputs under that regime were reported. There were various revisions to SAE J1349 which impacted, including certification (SAE third party) which Ford and I think Chrysler on non-perf engines initially refused. JIN standards were always a little lose tho German DIN 70020 was likely tnt most accurate. Webster's C/D article on the 2004 revision specifically mentioned Toyota's 3.0 V6 (likely the 1MZ-FE but he didn't specify) so it still gets thrown around as an example. So characterizing Toyota as "shady" prolly isn't the best term, tho I'm open to any info you have indicating Toyota violated any of the various standards in place. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Its not designed for safety, just cost and weight. https://wallup.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/172830-Japan-World_War_II-Zero-Mitsubishi-airplane-military-military_aircraft-aircraft-Japanese.jpg Yep.The lack of self-sealing fuel tanks Roman-candled a lot of pilots that otherwise might have live to fight on. |
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Quoted: You nailed it, the seat belt ratcheting assembly(large assembly in the B pillar) and cross bars for the doors specifically. The seat belts themselves had some sort of issues as well but I am not familiar with that, and I think they fixed that one at least. The companies that make the garbage are Higuchi and Takata. The parts are mostly for all toyota cars Corrolla and lighter but possibly the Camry. Just about every light car mfg used to and possibly still does use their parts. One reason why I refuse to get into small Japanese cars. Usually higher end or larger cars get better sub components, so I am not familiar with whats going in things like the Avalon/ES350 etc. I also bailed and refused to work with either of those companies when I saw how shitty they parts were about 10 years ago. I did follow it for awhile after that and nothing changed. I think Honda bailed too, they used them for a long time. They seem to have made a real effort to fix safety and it appears to be good.  Takata made parts for every company in the world. They no longer exist and a Chinese company bought the assets. Takata exist now only for handling of the money set aside for lawsuits. And a handful of people at one plant in Mexico made the mistake of removing the drying agent which caused the propent tablets to breakdown in shape which increased the surface area and resulted in an increase in the rate of reactive during deployment. Thus a faster more powerful detention causing structure failure of the airbag system. You think Japanese companies are bad....you should see what the big three do behind closed doors every day. I spent 10 years working for Japanese companies and they make better choices on product safety day to day then the big three do. |
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Quoted: Toyota has proven themselves again and again as the most unethical auto manufacturer out there. LOL GM has killed way more people with ignition systems then Toyota with the last 20 recalls. I can't speak about that one though due to my current employment. "Instead of fixing the ignition switch let's just put some rubber in the key ring hole!" |