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Posted: 10/7/2005 10:49:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2005 10:56:57 PM EDT by FLAL1A]
I have a friend who will soon be in extremis, and I am praying that God will send His Spirit on Floyd so that he may be convicted and convert while there is time to do so. I should (and probably do) know what my friend must do, but I want to be sure it's all fresh in my mind. Assume that baptism is not an issue. What does he need to accept and utter to assure his salvation?

ETA: I, at least, will not be debating the accuracy of anybody's response. I just need a refresher from my brothers. (This is one of the disadvantages to not being a Baptist: I don't have this part memorized. )
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 10:58:00 PM EDT
He needs to acknowledge to God that he (your friend) has sinned against God and chosen to live a selfish life for himself.  Then he needs to ask God personally for forgiveness.

He needs to believe (as best as he can) that Jesus Christ is his only hope to be forgiven of his sins and his only hope for salvation.

He needs to confess that he believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that Jesus rose from the dead.

It is a change of position of the heart and will that must be made.  To realize one's fallen state (deserving of hell), to place one's dependency on Christ for life and salvation, and to move in the direction of becoming more like Jesus Christ...this is what is needed.

Godspeed to your friend.  I pray that God would heal his body.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 3:11:55 AM EDT
In addition to what Jaltered said....

Has Floyd ever been baptized?

If not, he needs to be baptized!

Is he in any shape to be immersed under water, even if it's just a bathtub?

Afterwards, let him take Communion!

Eric The(BornAgain..WorkingOnSalvation)Hun
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 3:47:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 1:40:14 PM EDT
Listen to EricTheHun... no water... no entrance... I did not write it, someone else did.

Joh:3:5: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


As a matter of fact, Jesus said it.

Get that man to a pool, tub, river, lake...ocean... whatever.

Dram out
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 2:08:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dramborleg:
Listen to EricTheHun... no water... no entrance... I did not write it, someone else did.

Joh:3:5: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


As a matter of fact, Jesus said it.

Get that man to a pool, tub, river, lake...ocean... whatever.

Dram out



Baptism
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 2:16:32 PM EDT
Baptism is not a required part of salvation.  Salvation through Jesus Christ is all that is needed.  Baptism is simply a public statement OF salvation.  Communion is also NOT a requirement to go to Heaven.  If your friend accepts Christ, that's all he needs.  Salvation is the gift of grace not works.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 2:20:41 PM EDT
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 ¶ For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

1 Cor 15: 1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which [was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11 Therefore whether [it were] I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12 ¶ Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 ¶ But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 7:56:11 PM EDT
Once again we meet Criley... en garde!

As the sole proponent of "trustist" theology here, which in fact is the same as "faithist" theology, please explain the following:

How is it you are born again without baptism?

Especially in light of this :

Joh:3:5: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Hmm... cannot enter the kingdom without water and the spirit.

How do we get this water?

Through burial in baptism.

Why is burial necessary?

You must die to be free of your past sins, by being buried like Christ was buried in His tomb, you are buried in a watery grave and rise up a new creature in Christ. Lets listen:

Ro:6:3: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Ro:6:4: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Ro:6:5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Ro:6:6: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Now, people, howso is it hard to understand the Scripture given above? Many claim to be reborn... ie born again Christians, yet have not undertaken the figure that Christ chose for us to ALLOW us to be reborn.

Nicodemus could not understand this, but it is unfailingly clear in Romans what Jesus meant when He spake thus:

Joh:3:3: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh:3:4: Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh:3:5: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The second death that Nicodemus faltered at is BAPTISM, a burial in a watery grave that we might rise up a new creature. The Apostles knew what was required of them by Jesus to be preached and they did just that.

Eph:4:5: One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 7:59:55 PM EDT
Here we go again.

I FREAKING HATE RELIGION.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 8:35:17 PM EDT
So...   Since baptsm is required for salvation, I take it you're saying Jesus lied to the thief on the cross when he said "this day you will be with Me in Paradise?"

seems a bit disingenuous to me.  

Baptism is an outward display of an inner change -- not the change itself.  A person who cannot be baptised for some reason is not "unsaveable."
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 8:58:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
Here we go again.

I FREAKING HATE RELIGION.



Me too.

The Lord Jesus Christ is not a religion....   although men try and incorporate Him into theirs, as you see in this thread.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:13:08 PM EDT
Hmmm..

Cant answer the question?

I wonder why?

Dram
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:24:11 PM EDT
Funny how you fine fellows have hatred for debating the Truth.

How else does one prove or disprove one assertions about salvation other than study and educated discourse?

The original poster of this topic asked how to accept Christ, I replied.

You then use the disparaging, I assume, term religion. I have "faith", Criley that should make you happy, that Jesus died for me and rose on the third day and that he paid the price to forgive my sins etc etc etc. It is not a man made fabrication that I follow, but the last will and testament of Christ Jesus, who told us EXPLICITLY how we might be born again. What was IMPLICITLY required for salvation. There is no confusion, not throughout all of history what has been required of believers.

If you are looking for me to simply agree with a patently incorrect supposition that has posted before me, I assure you that you will be consistently disappointed.

The subject is too serious to simply roll over and enjoy bonhomous comraderie built on a mutual ignoring of contention.


Dram out
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:32:16 PM EDT
He needs to admit that he is a sinner in need of a savior, repent of his sins, ask forgiveness, and tell God that he believes Jesus Christ died to forgive his sins and to give him eternal life.

If possible, he should be baptized.  It is a command.  But if it is not possible, God will understand (see: thief at Calvary).  It is almost always possible, though.  There is almost no reason he would not be able to be baptized except for simple time constraints (i.e. he was literally breathing his dying breath).  I don't know why people are always tring to argue their way out of the necessity of baptism.  It's not what saves you, but it is a command directly tied into the act of becoming a Christian.  Do you really want your first act as a Christian to be to disobey a command of Christ?  I don't believe he has to be immersed.  It would be preferable, but sprinkling is just fine in a pinch.

Have him read 1 John 1:9.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 9:32:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 8:25:06 PM EDT by EricTheHun]

Originally Posted By CPUFed:
Baptism is not a required part of salvation.


Sez who?

The Christian Church has believed that Baptism is absolutely necessary for almost 2,000 years.

Some denominations even going so far as to baptize infants and children for fear that, if they died, they would not enter Heaven.

Why do you think infant baptism even got started?

High infant mortality rates that were common in the ancient world.

Salvation through Jesus Christ is all that is needed.

Well, duh, from Whom else would you think we obtain Salvation?

Baptism is simply a public statement OF salvation.

Baloney.

It can be done in a closet with only the baptizer and the baptized present.

Communion is also NOT a requirement to go to Heaven.

Simply because Christ commanded us...THIS DO IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME... should be good enough for us to believe it should be done.

If your friend accepts Christ, that's all he needs.  Salvation is the gift of grace not works.

No works, huh?

Is belief a 'work'?

Is repentence a 'work'?

Is confession a 'work'?

Eric The(Laboring)Hun
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:03:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LadyLiberty:
He needs to admit that he is a sinner in need of a savior, repent of his sins, ask forgiveness, and tell God that he believes Jesus Christ died to forgive his sins and to give him eternal life.

If possible, he should be baptized.  It is a command.  But if it is not possible, God will understand (see: thief at Calvary).  It is almost always possible, though.  There is almost no reason he would not be able to be baptized except for simple time constraints (i.e. he was literally breathing his dying breath).  I don't know why people are always tring to argue their way out of the necessity of baptism.  It's not what saves you, but it is a command directly tied into the act of becoming a Christian.  Do you really want your first act as a Christian to be to disobey a command of Christ?  I don't believe he has to be immersed.  It would be preferable, but sprinkling is just fine in a pinch.

Have him read 1 John 1:9.



 I do not understand why everyone brings up the "Theif" when trying to discount baptism.  

The plan of salvation was revealed at Pentecost and expressed in Peter's words, "Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins".  
In the first case Jesus had authority to forgive sins (Matthew 9:6).  The Theif was a penitent, confessing beliver; he had acknowledged his own guilt and confessed the innocence of the Son of God as well as reconginized him as "the  Lord."  Jesus chose to pardon this man as a son of Abraham who found salvation in believing on the Messiah (Luke 19:9).  He was the last of the lost sheep of the house of Israel that Christ the Good shepherd was able to gather back into the fold.  In the second place, this man died before the covenant of Christ was ratified.  Jesus did not establish His will until He sent the Apostles forth to preach the Gospel from Jerusalem (Luke 24:44-49).  In order for a will to be of force there must be the death of the testator (Hebrews 9:16-17).  The Will is not of any force while the will-maker is still alive, but once he is dead then it cannot be changed.  Furthermore, in order for a will to be valid it must be read, declared and published.  The theif could not possibly be bound by the terms of Christ's will when he died at Calvary because the command to be baptized for the remission of sins was not given until fifty days later at Pentecost.  The theif was never subject to the Gospel plan of salvation.  
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:18:12 PM EDT
Tell him he can go worship the sun or even a toilet at least they are proven to exist.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:21:08 PM EDT
Mattl,

That was really uncalled for, now wasnt it?

This is the religion forum, why would you troll here?

Dram
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:33:41 PM EDT
Faith is not a 12 step program.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:45:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dramborleg:
Mattl,

That was really uncalled for, now wasnt it?

This is the religion forum, why would you troll here?

Dram



Why do you guys troll all science related threads?  Say stem-cell research or evolution.  The religion conversation with me stops at the point where they can show no facts pertaining to whatever diety it is they pray to.  And no I am not trying to hijack and I was not the first to comment either.  If you have your faith good for you, I can't touch that it is yours.  Just don't expect me to advocate finding a crutch where not needed or herd mentality.  Someone always shits on my threads or others and turns them into holy wars so I figure a little crack here and there is not out of line.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 10:49:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ProfGAB101:
Faith is not a 12 step program.



Hard to tell sometimes.  I went to my brothers AA meeting one time as an observer and almost thought I was at church.  Penn & Teller did an interesting "Bullshit" on A.A. results are admitted  by A.A. to be same as quitting cold turkey.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 11:00:35 PM EDT
Anyone can walk the walk, speak the jargon, go thru the motions - but its all pointless if it doesn't hold a real personal meaning to you.

Sometimes people have to truely hit bottom before they can open themselves up.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:17:42 AM EDT
Mattl,

Wow are you a bitter person.

Also, you are a here where someone is asking how to accept Christ and you are telling them to worship a toilet???????

Lets see what Va-G says about you, shall we?

Dram
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:39:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By CPUFed:
Baptism is not a required part of salvation.


Sez who?

The Christian Church has believed that Baptism is absolutely necessary for almost 2,000 years.

Some denominations even going so far as to baptize infants and children for fear that, if they died, they would not enter Heaven.

Why do you think infant baptism even got started?

High infant mortality rates that were common in the ancient world.

Salvation through Jesus Christ is all that is needed.

Well, duh, from Whom else would you think we obtain Salvation?

Baptism is simply a public statement OF salvation.

Baloney.

It can be done in a closet with only the baptizer and the baptized present.

Communion is also NOT a requirement to go to Heaven.

Simply because Christ commanded us...DO THIS IN REMBRANCE OF ME[/pruple] should be good enough for us to believe it should be done.

If your friend accepts Christ, that's all he needs.  Salvation is the gift of grace not works.

No works, huh?

Is belief a 'work'?

Is repentence a 'work'?

Is confession a 'work'?

Eric The(Laboring)Hun



Eric,

Read your Bible then come back when you have clue... Seriously.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 11:16:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 11:36:28 AM EDT
Thank you, sir.

Dram out
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:17:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 8:26:53 PM EDT by EricTheHun]

Originally Posted By CPUFed:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By CPUFed:
Baptism is not a required part of salvation.


Sez who?

The Christian Church has believed that Baptism is absolutely necessary for almost 2,000 years.

Some denominations even going so far as to baptize infants and children for fear that, if they died, they would not enter Heaven.

Why do you think infant baptism even got started?

High infant mortality rates that were common in the ancient world.

Salvation through Jesus Christ is all that is needed.

Well, duh, from Whom else would you think we obtain Salvation?

Baptism is simply a public statement OF salvation.

Baloney.

It can be done in a closet with only the baptizer and the baptized present.

Communion is also NOT a requirement to go to Heaven.

Simply because Christ commanded us...THIS DO IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME... should be good enough for us to believe it should be done.

If your friend accepts Christ, that's all he needs.  Salvation is the gift of grace not works.

No works, huh?

Is belief a 'work'?

Is repentence a 'work'?

Is confession a 'work'?

Eric The(Laboring)Hun


Eric,

Read your Bible then come back when you have clue... Seriously.


Seriously, is that any sort of serious answer to what I cited?



I don't think so!

Try again...if you will.

Eric The(Reiterating)Hun
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:21:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By batchman:

Originally Posted By LadyLiberty:
He needs to admit that he is a sinner in need of a savior, repent of his sins, ask forgiveness, and tell God that he believes Jesus Christ died to forgive his sins and to give him eternal life.

If possible, he should be baptized.  It is a command.  But if it is not possible, God will understand (see: thief at Calvary).  It is almost always possible, though.  There is almost no reason he would not be able to be baptized except for simple time constraints (i.e. he was literally breathing his dying breath).  I don't know why people are always tring to argue their way out of the necessity of baptism.  It's not what saves you, but it is a command directly tied into the act of becoming a Christian.  Do you really want your first act as a Christian to be to disobey a command of Christ?  I don't believe he has to be immersed.  It would be preferable, but sprinkling is just fine in a pinch.

Have him read 1 John 1:9.



 I do not understand why everyone brings up the "Thief" when trying to discount baptism.  

The plan of salvation was revealed at Pentecost and expressed in Peter's words, "Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins".  
In the first case Jesus had authority to forgive sins (Matthew 9:6).  The Theif was a penitent, confessing beliver; he had acknowledged his own guilt and confessed the innocence of the Son of God as well as reconginized him as "the  Lord."  Jesus chose to pardon this man as a son of Abraham who found salvation in believing on the Messiah (Luke 19:9).  He was the last of the lost sheep of the house of Israel that Christ the Good shepherd was able to gather back into the fold.  In the second place, this man died before the covenant of Christ was ratified.  Jesus did not establish His will until He sent the Apostles forth to preach the Gospel from Jerusalem (Luke 24:44-49).  In order for a will to be of force there must be the death of the testator (Hebrews 9:16-17).  The Will is not of any force while the will-maker is still alive, but once he is dead then it cannot be changed.  Furthermore, in order for a will to be valid it must be read, declared and published.  The theif could not possibly be bound by the terms of Christ's will when he died at Calvary because the command to be baptized for the remission of sins was not given until fifty days later at Pentecost.  The theif was never subject to the Gospel plan of salvation.  


What a remarkable statement of the absolute requirement of baptism!

Do you mind if I quote it next time this subject comes up?

Eric The(Impressed)Hun
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 4:13:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Tell him he can go worship the sun or even a toilet at least they are proven to exist.



<------------------


The door is that way.

Use it.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 7:23:24 AM EDT
.
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 10:22:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2005 10:54:49 AM EDT by batchman]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By batchman:

Originally Posted By LadyLiberty:
He needs to admit that he is a sinner in need of a savior, repent of his sins, ask forgiveness, and tell God that he believes Jesus Christ died to forgive his sins and to give him eternal life.

If possible, he should be baptized.  It is a command.  But if it is not possible, God will understand (see: thief at Calvary).  It is almost always possible, though.  There is almost no reason he would not be able to be baptized except for simple time constraints (i.e. he was literally breathing his dying breath).  I don't know why people are always tring to argue their way out of the necessity of baptism.  It's not what saves you, but it is a command directly tied into the act of becoming a Christian.  Do you really want your first act as a Christian to be to disobey a command of Christ?  I don't believe he has to be immersed.  It would be preferable, but sprinkling is just fine in a pinch.

Have him read 1 John 1:9.



 I do not understand why everyone brings up the "Thief" when trying to discount baptism.  

The plan of salvation was revealed at Pentecost and expressed in Peter's words, "Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins".  
In the first case Jesus had authority to forgive sins (Matthew 9:6).  The Theif was a penitent, confessing beliver; he had acknowledged his own guilt and confessed the innocence of the Son of God as well as reconginized him as "the  Lord."  Jesus chose to pardon this man as a son of Abraham who found salvation in believing on the Messiah (Luke 19:9).  He was the last of the lost sheep of the house of Israel that Christ the Good shepherd was able to gather back into the fold.  In the second place, this man died before the covenant of Christ was ratified.  Jesus did not establish His will until He sent the Apostles forth to preach the Gospel from Jerusalem (Luke 24:44-49).  In order for a will to be of force there must be the death of the testator (Hebrews 9:16-17).  The Will is not of any force while the will-maker is still alive, but once he is dead then it cannot be changed.  Furthermore, in order for a will to be valid it must be read, declared and published.  The theif could not possibly be bound by the terms of Christ's will when he died at Calvary because the command to be baptized for the remission of sins was not given until fifty days later at Pentecost.  The theif was never subject to the Gospel plan of salvation.  


What a remarkable statement of the absolute requirement of baptism!

Do you mind if I quote it next time this subject comes up?

Eric The(Impressed)Hun



Eric:
  It would be my pleaseure.  But I must admit it is not mine alone.  It comes from
alot of Bible study.  One can only build a relationship in Christ, from a firm study from
God's word and only using God's word and not mand made doctrine.

Todd
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