Posted: 12/4/2024 1:59:46 PM EDT
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Specifically, the Ace XR system. Let me start by saying that I’m very anti-video games and the thought of sitting in my ass wasting time playing games makes me cringe. So when I say that this is absolutely a worthwhile investment you know where I’m coming from. So this started with a couple of younger guys in my local USPSA/Steel Challenge club. They started probably a year and a half ago. In the past three months I’ve seen a significant improvement in performance. I mean… fast. And the improvement has been across the board in how they shoot stages. What’s going on here? So we’re talking and they mention this ACE XR virtual reality shooting system and they showed me some videos on their phones. Ehh… it looks like some kind of video game bullshit. I kind of dismissed it. One kid kept hitting me up, “You don’t understand, you’ve got to try it.” So I was selling him a gun and he brought his headset over to show me. Alright, fine… In five minutes I went from “This is some Call of Duty bullshit for teenagers” to “This is the most powerful Dryfire training tool since the shot timer and will revolutionize how we train” without exaggeration. It’s the closest thing you can do to being on the range in a complex environment possible. You need a headset, like a Meta 2, 3s or 3. From my understanding the memory is unimportant but the resolution is the difference. I bought a 3. Then the Ace XR gun, their controller and a monthly or annual subscription. I think it was like $14/month if you pay for it annually. For the entire thing with headset (I bought the 3, which is the most expensive one) I want to say I was like $800 all into it. Once you have all of that, I had a friend 3-D print a Shadow 2 frame which will also simulate a DWX. It will also work with my existing holsters. Short version: Worth every penny. Pros: Allows you to work around obstacles/walls. Refine movement: I can run the same drill time over and over again and look at the splits/transitions and accuracy and see where I can refine movement/shave time, attack stages more efficiently and aggressively. A lot of the existing Classifiers are in there and a number of full up stages (I shot some stages from 2024 CO Nats last night). The way the gun works in the game is as close as you can get to an accurate simulation and reasonable analog in terms of sight/dot tracking under recoil and movement with your grip. While you don’t have an actual magazine to insert during reloads, the mag release on the gun works and you have to smack the magwell to simulate a reload. As long as you go through the actual motions it works well. Running stages for 30 minutes last night and my knees were killing me from shit like low ports and explosive movement/direction changes. My forearms were smoked from gripping the gun as I would in normal dryfire/livefire but I’m just going without a break. Looking at my ranking on the Leaderboard and recognizing some names I’m placing about where I would expect in relation to the people I’ve shot with in the real world based upon how I know we all perform. That tells me it’s reasonably analogous to real world conditions. Cons: If you’re really short of space it’s going to be of more limited utility. I pull both cars out of the garage so I have some room to move. If all you have is a living room in an apartment you can still get some use out of it, though. For mag changes you don’t actually have a magazine which hurts. But, you can’t see your hands so being able to mentally connect while you go through the motions has value. You still need to do real world mag change drills, though. The guns are too light and that’s detrimental. I find myself overshooting a lot. However, my printed Shadow 2 and big channels for additional weight so I’m going to pour in lead shot and then seal it with epoxy which will help. It’s not cheap. I’ve been using it about a week and already asking myself why I dismissed it so quickly. I wish I was on this a year ago. I’m 48 and while I’m in great shape, my years of competing at this level are limited. If you shoot Steel Challenge GET THIS RIGHT NOW. It’s even more useful than with USPSA or IDPA. Here’s a decent video about it.  ACE VR Shooting - Real handgun training with no real ammo |
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I have it and it's great. I'm not a serious competitor but I'm doing a bi-weekly winter league and it is great to work on draws, presentation, transitions, etc. I shoot a Staccato P so the Staccato I got from Ace is perfect. The weight and balance are almost dead on. I highly recommend it. Edit: My only gripe is I wish the trigger was closer to a real straight pull 2011 trigger. It isn't terrible though. |
 Beverly Hills Cop 2 - Gun Range |
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Timely thread. I’ve been considering getting either this, or the GAIM. The GAIM is affiliated with Aimpoint, has both a rifle and a handgun, and give you the option to create your own stages. I think it’s also a software package and not a subscription. I don’t really care about the leaderboard feature. I wish there was a way to try them both, before dropping the money on either. |
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Quoted: I have it and it's great. I'm not a serious competitor but I'm doing a bi-weekly winter league and it is great to work on draws, presentation, transitions, etc. I shoot a Staccato P so the Staccato I got from Ace is perfect. The weight and balance are almost dead on. I highly recommend it. Edit: My only gripe is I wish the trigger was closer to a real straight pull 2011 trigger. It isn't terrible though. I got the Staccato from ACE and it works pretty well for SS and you’re right, it’s weighted way better than just the 3D Printed ones. The trigger isn’t exact, like you said, but I’m not thinking that’s going to be that detrimental. At least not yet. |
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Quoted: In the real world? I'm an eight division GM between USPSA and SC. High Master in a couple others. Quoted: Quoted: What are your classifications? In the real world? I'm an eight division GM between USPSA and SC. High Master in a couple others. |
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Our local club does a summer series for steel challenge so its a seasonal thing for us. Ive done the dry fire targets on the wall thing, but bought a ace set last christmas. I only practiced steel challenge in the ace vr game this year. Zero range sessions, zero other dryfire. I only put about 10,000 reps in (and some of that is fucking around trying their different stages/modes). Went from B to A in multiple divisions with zero other practice, so I’m a fan. Especially for steel challenge, not having to measure and tape out stages to dryfire different stages is so damn nice. Highly recommend (and i want the name of your friend who printed a S2 handset, I only have the Sig one). |
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Can't speak to the one OP is asking about but I have the Clay Hunt VR deal and it is great. I like the sporting clays because to me it is more realistic but if you want to play a game the bird and hog shooting can be fun. Had a buddy dive across the living room when a hog "charged" him. |
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Quoted: Can't wait for VR scenario-based training where you can prompt AI to set up an infinite variety of real-world self defense scenarios. They have a augmented reality mode for the more advanced headsets, I think. It uses your home/training space and puts in threats so you can clear your house using it. I don't have one of the good headsets, so I don't know. |
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Quoted: I wanted in on the ground floor of this one but the subscription model is trash. Glad it's working for you! Yep, I'd really like to have this VR simulator (I already have a Quest 2 and Quest 3) - but there is no way I'll buy anything that requires a subscription to use. |
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I need to dig back into this. A few years ago, I bought a Quest 2 and got into the FPS games on it for a while. I printed some frames and made them work pretty well, but lost interest in VR FPS stuff when I rediscovered combat flight sims in VR. Since then I’ve spent about $10k on equipment. I have an Apple Vision Pro and a Pimax Crystal for headsets. There’s a Quest 2 on my shelf that I don’t use, and my oldest daughter has a Quest 3. I’ve seriously considered writing something like this for the Vision Pro, but my early attempts showed that the object detection and tracking for the pistol wasn’t fine-grained enough to be useful for accurate shooting. That said, the ability to use real hardware is a huge bonus. |
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Quoted: You mean Meta headsets.  You don't need to have a Facebook account to have or use Quest headsets anymore. Quoted: Quoted: Neat. Too bad it only works with 3 of the facebook headsets. You mean Meta headsets. You don't need to have a Facebook account to have or use Quest headsets anymore. facebook, meta, whatever. I also don't need a third headset from a shitass company like facebook collecting dust along side my Vive and WMR. |
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Glad to see this thread. I've been back and forth researching Ace for months and finally pulled the trigger on the Black Friday Package deal. The handset should arrive today, but I've not seen any update on when Best Buy will be fulfilling the 3s end of the order. I'm really looking forward to using this to (hopefully) pry myself off my USPSA plateau. |
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Never got an award for pistol. I was at MCRD or Pendleton back in ‘08 for an educator workshop. Got to shoot the simulator. It was fun, for the pistol range, one of the Marines asked if I needed a tutorial, told him, “thanks but I got it..” Started shooting, all shots were hitting COM and head shots. Ran 2-3 mags through it and the room got quieter, heads started to turn over, granted, these are teachers so not much to talk about. Got done. Stopped for a second, looked around and the entire room was watching me. A major and a colonel were watching and smiled. 2 young Marines pushed some teachers aside and said, we got this…they shot 1/2 a mag, shot like shit, and moved away from the line. A few people in the room said, “Damn” As I passed the officers, the Major gave me a nod. I don’t shoot competition, I’m sure many can beat me but at the range, I only met 1 other person who could outshoot me with a pistol, he won awards in the Army pistol competition. So I’m no Jerry Miculek by any stretch but I’m also not a slack jawed basement dweller and I know what a Kbar is son. |
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Quoted: They have a augmented reality mode for the more advanced headsets, I think. It uses your home/training space and puts in threats so you can clear your house using it. I don't have one of the good headsets, so I don't know. Quoted: Quoted: Can't wait for VR scenario-based training where you can prompt AI to set up an infinite variety of real-world self defense scenarios. They have a augmented reality mode for the more advanced headsets, I think. It uses your home/training space and puts in threats so you can clear your house using it. I don't have one of the good headsets, so I don't know. |
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Quoted: Use it for a year and cancel, then. Or don't improve your shooting at home. Quoted: Quoted: Yep, I'd really like to have this VR simulator (I already have a Quest 2 and Quest 3) - but there is no way I'll buy anything that requires a subscription to use. Use it for a year and cancel, then. Or don't improve your shooting at home. Maybe, I guess. It would be better if they hybridized it like Topaz: You buy the software, you get updates for one year, and then you can still use it, but without updates. I’d totally do that with this sim. I might just get a year for grins … the issue is time, but if I want to improve, I do need to make time. |
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Even though this is GD, thanks for posting as I never knew this existed. Looking into it now. Also, I do enjoy your posts the majority of the times as they will occasionally provide a chuckle and once a month, actual knowledge. I'm still stumped at this, "I’m 48" as I had you pegged at 23. |
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Quoted: Is the Quest 3 worth the premium over the 3s for stuff like this? I've never owned any of these VR headsets and don't really know how much memory the average app uses? Given that I’m from the generation to which fax machines were high tech, I have no idea honestly. But here’s what I’ve been told: The memory limitations of the 2 and 3s aren’t an issue as it only uses less than 2GB of memory. I think it said 1.8 when I downloaded it. To my understanding the difference between the 2 and 3s is processing and the difference between the 3s and 3 is resolution. It “runs fine” on the 2. I bought the 3 because I got an online Amazon credit with it that somewhat bridges the price gap and I thought that it would leave room for more options over the following years. If I was doing it, might as well go all the way. |
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Quoted: Even though this is GD, thanks for posting as I never knew this existed. Looking into it now. Also, I do enjoy your posts the majority of the times as they will occasionally provide a chuckle and once a month, actual knowledge. I'm still stumped at this, "I’m 48" as I had you pegged at 23. That sounds generous, but appreciated. 23? Man… that was two ex-wives ago! |
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I think it's as useful a training tool as you have the discipline to make it be for improved dry fire. If you start from low ready are you sliding your finger on the trigger to get a better time or chasing a score? Or is everything from the holster or proper finger placement? Get lazy, you can build bad habits or cheat yourself depending on your goals. I have the 365xl handset as I was hoping to train with a CCW option. But seeing the aftermarket out there you can get your Glock or cz shadow 2 handset and put birdshot and brass grips on it. Plus, you'll play with all the digital gun and optics options - because you just will. (Cough- Walther PDP - cough) Headset wise I started with a 2 and jumped to the meta 3. The clarity and 4K was worth something I use most days of the week. If I believe the savings calculator, it's going to pay for itself.  What I like:
I agree with 45-70 that it's a tool where I can shoot in the rain or cold and don't have to set up steel or targets. I think you should start an ARF group so we can play online together. Would also be neat to see how you pattern some of the courses of fire. For example, I noted I'm faster L-R but I push myself to always run R-L's as well for obvious reasons. In the training section, I can only get the 3 door 1 shoot vs no shoot targets down to .7 tenths as I can't seem to process and shoot any faster. Guess I will remain a humble shooter in Vr and on the range!  Its tracking you accurate enough to see a grip or trigger flex and its cool enough to cast so you can coach a new shooter or trash talk with your buddies on a course of fire. Usually a new drill to try every day. For whatever that's worth to you........Cheers! |
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Quoted: They have a augmented reality mode for the more advanced headsets, I think. It uses your home/training space and puts in threats so you can clear your house using it. I don't have one of the good headsets, so I don't know. I'm new to the VR world I assume these aren't the META headsets |
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Quoted: Is the Quest 3 worth the premium over the 3s for stuff like this? I've never owned any of these VR headsets and don't really know how much memory the average app uses? Yes. The Quest 3 is definitely worth the premium over the 3S. The 3S is a slightly upgraded Quest 2, I have both the Quest 2 and the Quest 3 - if you are seriously limited financially, then do the 3S, but it doesn't cost that much more to do the Q3. Also, I really don't care about the memory because I use mine as a PCVR headset with Steam, I don't really need the memory in the headset at all. |
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Quoted: However, my printed Shadow 2 and big channels for additional weight so I’m going to pour in lead shot and then seal it with epoxy which will help. Can you elaborate on this? Is the aftermarket making printed guns that you can attach the controller to? If I can get a S2 clone and make it balance properly with accurate weight(I also have a spare holster I could trim as needed), I'd be exponentially more interested. |