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Posted: 9/7/2004 7:28:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 7:29:40 AM EST by Dino]
www.jihadwatch.org/archives/000232.php

Identifying Muslim moderates

The courageous and insightful Daniel Pipes offers a succinct guide to identifying Muslim moderates. I look forward to seeing Muslim groups and individuals declaring that they fit these reasonable and intelligent criteria.

Pipes includes important information about Abdurrahman Alamoudi and other deceptive self-proclaimed moderates, and offers these criteria for identifying real moderate Muslims:

"- Violence : Do you condone or condemn the Palestinians, Chechens, and Kashmiris who give up their lives to kill enemy civilians? Will you condemn by name as terrorist groups such organizations as Abu Sayyaf, Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, Groupe islamique arm\'e9e, Hamas, Harakat ul-Mujahidin, Hizbullah, Islamic Jihad, Jaish-e-Mohammed, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba, and Al-Qaeda?

"- Modernity : Should Muslim women have equal rights with men (for example, in inheritance shares or court testimony)? Is jihad , meaning a form of warfare, acceptable in today's world? Do you accept the validity of other religions? Do Muslims have anything to learn from the West?"

About jihad, this is just as I have said here: "Any Muslim who renounces violent jihad and dhimmitude is welcome to join in our anti-jihadist efforts."

About accepting the validity of other religions, I might add that clarity is necessary: it is not enough for Muslims to avow respect for "Judaism and Christianity," but for "Judaism and Christianity in their present forms" — that is, as distinguished from the pure, uncorrupted Judaism and Christianity that are in traditional Islam equated with the religion of the Qur'an.

"- Secularism : Should non-Muslims enjoy completely equal civil rights with Muslims? May Muslims convert to other religions? May Muslim women marry non-Muslim men? Do you accept the laws of a majority non-Muslim government and unreservedly pledge allegiance to that government? Should the state impose religious observance, such as banning food service during Ramadan? When Islamic customs conflict with secular laws (e.g., covering the face for drivers' license pictures), which should give way?

"- Islamic pluralism : Are Sufis and Shi'ites fully legitimate Muslims? Do you see Muslims who disagree with you as having fallen into unbelief? Is takfir (condemning fellow Muslims one has disagreements with as unbelievers) an acceptable practice?"

Takfir, of course, is one justification radical Muslims can use for attacks in places such as Turkey.

"- Self-criticism : Do you accept the legitimacy of scholarly inquiry into the origins of Islam? Who was responsible for the 9/11 suicide hijackings?

"- Defense against militant Islam : Do you accept enhanced security measures to fight militant Islam, even if this means extra scrutiny of yourself (for example, at airline security)? Do you agree that institutions accused of funding terrorism should be shut down, or do you see this a symptom of bias?

"- Goals in the West : Do you accept that Western countries are majority-Christian and secular or do you seek to transform them into majority-Muslim countries ruled by Islamic law?"
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:59:33 AM EST
Given those questions I'd say the number of Muslims that will come forth and proclaim themselves "moderates" is going to be near zero.

Doesn't Islam tie EVERYTHING together, that is religion, custom and law into one neat package? That would make most everything on that list a violation of their "religion" wouldn't it?

Nope, you're not going to see any significant number of Mulims say jack shit about what is going on. Most will say nothing but quietly celebrate any of their "victories".

I still consider Muslims in this country to be a potential "fifth column" given that they will NOT come forward to condem those that act in their name. Those that DO step forward, identify themselves and disavow the violence that takes place have shown themselves to be AMERICANS, not Muslims or "hyphenated-Americans" in my eyes.

Oh, and IBTL
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:59:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Given those questions I'd say the number of Muslims that will come forth and proclaim themselves "moderates" is going to be near zero. Given the number of Muslims who live where they are free to do so, I think you;'re right

Doesn't Islam tie EVERYTHING together, that is religion, custom and law into one neat package? That would make most everything on that list a violation of their "religion" wouldn't it? Folks adhere to alot of things that violate their religeon? How many of the folks here call themselves Christian, but were not a virgin on their (first) wedding day, or got a divorce for reasons other than adultery on the other side? How many have added extra prohibitions? Same thing with any other religeon...

Nope, you're not going to see any significant number of Mulims say jack shit about what is going on. Most will say nothing but quietly celebrate any of their "victories". The only one they've celebrated in THIS country has been the fall of Saddam (FNC in Dearborn MI, 'celebrate' is to put it lightly), which I'd say is OUR victory, too... As for the rest of the Muslim world, I'll hold them accountable for their 'celebrations' when they live under a government that gives them the ability to pick a side - see #1, 90% of them don't

I still consider Muslims in this country to be a potential "fifth column" given that they will NOT come forward to condem those that act in their name. Those that DO step forward, identify themselves and disavow the violence that takes place have shown themselves to be AMERICANS, not Muslims or "hyphenated-Americans" in my eyes. Well, AQ seems to be just as happy to kill them as us, so we'll see... As noted above, most of their public actions (aside from Farkkan and his organization...) haven't been a problem. The only American traitors so far have been confused converts (Anderson and Lindh)

Oh, and IBTL

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 9:00:57 AM EST
So called "moderate" muslims are often the first killed by "True Believers" as stated in the Laws of the Koran.

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 9:03:53 AM EST
Moderate muslims like to use 1/2 sticks of dynamite to blow up day care centers, this is in comparison to the crazed muslim who uses the entire stick of dynamite.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 9:11:33 AM EST




The best way
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 9:12:35 AM EST
Here are a couple



Link Posted: 9/7/2004 9:14:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:00:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 10:02:43 AM EST by vito113]
'Moderate' Muslims are as common as……



Andy
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 10:02:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 10:02:57 AM EST by thebeekeeper1]
1.) Posting derogatory comments of a religious nature.
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