Posted: 2/9/2008 10:58:59 AM EDT
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I spent 15 years in the street mostly in high crime/ gangland neighborhoods. I have been out of the street about 5 years now. I was still jumping over fences chasing guys with guns in their hand for about two years as a detective, but now am just a property crimes guy, no more robbery. I am still pretty jumpy. A couple years ago a woman psychologist came to talk to us and told us we were all crazy and everything we had learned that helped us survive in the street was bad for us. We laughed at her. Then she started showing a powerpoint presentation of what she was talking about. When she was done you could have heard a pin drop in that room. She said she wanted to untrain us as we were close to retirement and needed to stop acting/ thinking like we do. For example, I will draw when startled. The first time I did it involuntarily I was checking a burglar alarm alone and was walking down the long side of a building when there was a sudden rustling sound behind me. I drew and spun and was looking down my gun barrel at a robin flying out of a bush. I felt funny since there was no conscious decision to do that. It was a Pavlov's dog reaction to the sound behind me. I then read that drawing without thinking when startled showed you were bone trained so I felt like I had snatched the pebble from Jeff Copper's hand. Over Christmas my wife replaced the night light we keep on in the bathroom for the kids with a snowman one. I didn't know it but it would be bright, then dim, then get bright again over and over. One night I got up in the middle of the night to pee and the light was on. It was in front of me as I was peeing. Then it dimmed out. This created a huge amount of confusion in me. Deep down inside the light dimming triggered a "someone is behind me and just stepped in between me and the light causing it to look dimmer to me". At the same time I could see the light in front of me and knew that couldn't have happened not to mention I am standing in my bathroom. I was groggy but I got a real charge out of the light dimming. Another thing is my "Standard Attack". Over the years I adopted an attack procedure that worked well for me especially if the guy was wearing a shirt. I am good at it and I can launch my attack against "No people" and have them on the ground unable to get back up pretty quick. What the woman was saying of course was that most people did not have a "Standard Attack" procedure of their own and certainly did not have one they perfected by using it over and over. These are three examples of what I am talking about. That woman who came and talked to us had a lot of them and it was true we all had the behaviors she mentioned as being bad for people. But again they were things that helped us in the street, but don't help you at other times. She said even soldiers were only in wars for a short time and then moved on while we remained in the street for many, many years and that it wasn't good for us. So how jumpy are you? Do you catch yourself having involuntary reactions to things? I am starting to wonder if it will ever go away. The fact is I am always in Condition Yellow unless I am asleep. |
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Okay so when an officer gets "untrained" and killed in the line of duty 6 months before retirement, whose to "blame." Of course the killer is. But you have to live to retirement. Then she can "untrain" you. Sounds like you need to pay a visit to Col. Dave Grossman. Also sounds like you need a hobby. Something to relax you. Fishing with Dynamite is fun, or so I'm told. The fish steal more of my bait, than a roving band of car thieves steal cars in a morning. Even if the keys are in them and are running.  Who is this mysterious woman who knows about your job? |
I have never been a LEO or in the military. I do things similar to what you are saying, like what you described with drawing your gun. That may be crazy if you were in a mall or something but not the situation you described. I am always in what I would consider condition Yellow. My family is always surprised at the things I notice that they don't. I like to think of it as healthy paranoia  . The thing with the bathroom light is something I would try to work on though. You don't want your mind playing tricks on you
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I spent 13 years in the infantry and part of my daily routine when I was going anywhere was picking out positions for machine guns or ambushes. I don't do it now because I picked up photography as a hobby and now I'm looking for that perfect picture. When I'm at work (CO) I am constantly doing the "if this happens, I'm doing that" game, running scenarios through my head,etc. I do that when I am out with my family too in case I run into a former "client". I see nothing wrong with being in condition yellow all the time. |
| I don't think you ever learn to live with it. Every night I lock the bedroom door. Kids are grown out of the house. My wonderful wife may not like it but she understands why I do it. I go to a pyschatrist and a psycologist (both trained in LEO/millitary treatment) on a monthly basis. They have both told me I will do these things as I am always in condition yellow which is not a bad thing. What I've learned is we will do these things for a long time even when retired. It gets better according to them and I trust them both. Don't worry too much about it. We learned this over a period of years and it will take a long time to "un-learn" them. Give yourself time my brother. |
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Don't listen to the LibTard, get a hobby that relaxes you. I work in a high crime shit hole and have been on the job for over 15 years in Patrol, SWAT and CID. I shoot for relaxation and enjoyment plus it keeps me in top form for when the shit hits the fan. I'm curious though, just who is this woman who knows that trained survival responses are bad for cops. |
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I retired a few weeks ago. So far, I have more time for reloading and shooting. I don't want to change. I don't have a problem being that way. The other day, I came home, and found the back door open. It turned out that my daughter left it open. I'm sure glad that nothing was missing. I was thinking about going to another department part time. |
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She's an idiot. She may be right, it may be bad for your heart and health on the long term, but it's good for saving your ass on the short term. People like her don't understand and don't accept that evil people exist in this world, and the only way to triumph over them is through training and reaction. Keep doing what you're doing. What is this standard attack? I mean I have moves that I prefer, but I'd love to hear yours! She's a kook, even if she's right. Let it be her ass on the line and she wouldn't be as quick to worry about the long term psychotherapeutic effects of being jumpy. eta- the nightlight? that's just funny. I wish I could rig something like that up to fuck with my buddies. |
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I think her point is that the survival responses aren't bad for you at work, just the rest of the time. She accepts they are necessary to die of old age. What she is saying is they are bad for your family and you in the long run and you need to identify them and make sure they aren't causing you trouble. Now that guys in my bunch are less than five years to retirement she is trying to show us that we need to lay down some of the street skill set for our own good when we hang it up. I am very sensitive to people behind me. I almost decked a Home Depot worker the other day who came up behind me when I was looking at something and ask to help me. I think it will never get all the way out of you and I certainly don't want to join the ranks of the sheep. This woman knows cops and she in privy to a lot of inside info. She is on our side, not some liberal goof ball. |
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You don't need someone picking your brain. Some things you should never let go of, other things that are no longer a necessary skill set will whither with time. You'll still think like a cop, be cautious and smart. But suppose you no longer draw down at the sound of the ice machine while you're making a sandwich. Not a terrible existence, IMO. They're instincts and skills, not hinderances. IBSL In before Snow Leopard 
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I find myself "reacting" to things and then realizing that it's not anything big, and laughing at myself for "reacting" the way I did... but then again, I've been out on the street and NOT reacted a certain way, when I SHOULD have, and later after everything is over, I say to myself "Geez... how lucky are you that you aren't dead in a body bag right now"... I'll stick to reacting when it's not needed rather than the other way around... Once I'm off the job completely it's another story, but for now... |
I read "On Killing". I agree with a lot of the things he said.
What are you saying? Ice falling in the machine sounds a lot like breaking glass! Assess over your front sight man! Oh sorry. |
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My wife thinks I am weird cause I lock everything whether I am in it or not. When I first got married my wife would laugh cause if I heard something in the house I would grab my pistol and go see what it was. Even if I had an idea what is such as vehicles outside the neighbors or whatever I couldn't sleep till I put it to rest by checking everything myself. Don't feel bad about the robin there is a guy that I know that shot a Halloween prop several times. He was responding to an alarm that sounded at a local bar (done it hundreds of times) the alarm had problems. Well after he received the call and decided to enter the building with another officer he headed up to the office. He didn't know that the employees were trying to scare the manager and so they set up a life size manikin with a Jason mask and kitchen knife. As he sliced the corner he ordered it to put down the knife and then fired several rounds, it didn't go down so he calls in shots fired and that he missed the suspect then turns the corner again fires more rounds. That's when he turns on the light realizes what it was. I wasn't there but that is the story and I believe it. He will never live it down. |
| A buddy of mine works for Ohio State University PD, and is a member of their swat team. often times they train in buildings that are vacant, so that they can use sims rounds and bang whenever necessary. additionally, homeless people sleep in them at night because some are still heated. I recall a story he told me where he was checking an alarm drop on a vacant they used the day before for training. Apparently they didn't take down all the targets used for training the day before because when he entered the first room there was a target of a man pointing a gun, so he instinctively drew his weapon and put 2 in the chest and 1 in the head. he was startled at first, but after he realized what had happened, he got a chuckle out of it. Regardless of it being at night, and relying on ambient light from the hallway, it was easy to make the target out to be a live threat. |
It's all fun and games until he pisses all over the wall while executing that perfect attack we want to learn more about!!! But seriously, get to the finish line and then let this broad help you take off your runnning shoes. |