Posted: 10/20/2021 10:07:33 PM EDT
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ETA 15 JAN 2022: Photos are up on page 13. Thanks all for attending, and I hope to see you next time! ETA 16 DEC 2021: The training site has sufficient snow, ranging from 18" to 3 or more feet. Looking forward to the event tomorrow!  How does cold affect you? How does it affect efficiency when planning operations for a group? How do you thrive and turn extreme cold austere conditions to your advantage? The American Pioneer Corps will be conducting an Introduction to Winter/Cold Weather Operations course in western Montana 17-19 December. The course will include accommodations and ammunition for the live fire portion. There are going to be a relatively limited number of seats, but minimal cost involved for participants. From your instructor, ARFCOMs Rosta97: I will be instructing the course. Up until a few months ago I was an instructor at the United States Army Northern Warfare Training Center in Black Rapids, Alaska. I instructed Cold Weather Orientation Course, Cold Weather Leaders Course, Cold Weather Instructor Qualification Course as well as Basic Military Mountaineering. I am also Avalanche level 1 certified from the Alaska Avalanche School. I have had the opportunity to test a lot of experimental cold weather equipment for the military as well as provide feedback on the Army’s Arctic Strategy. I look forward to the course as I love cold weather and teaching people about it. If anyone has any question about the course or anything they’d like to be covered just let me know. Would you like to know more? Register here.  Schedule Friday 1400-1430 Introductions 1430-1530 Analyze terrain in cold regions 1530-1630 Analyze weather in cold and mountainous regions 1630-1730 prevent cold weather injuries 1730-1830 chow 1830-1900 protect yourself in extreme cold Saturday 0700-0730 prevent altitude illness 0730-0830 chow 0830-0930 plan a small unit movement in snow covered terrain 0930-1130 move over snow on snowshoes 1130-1230 chow 1230-1330 prevent environmental injuries 1330-1500 evacuate a hypothermic casualty 1500-1530 employ individual camouflage in a snow covered environment 1530-1600 construct fighting positions in a snow covered environment 1600-1700 engage targets in a snow covered environment 1700-1800 chow 1800-1930 construct improvised shelters 1930-2030 case study(Russo Finnish war) 2100-0600 occupy improvised shelters Sunday 0600-0700 reset improvised shelter site 0700-0800 cold weather injuries check and chow 0800-0830 pack a rucksack 0830-0930 maintain vehicles and weapons in a cold region 0930-1230 biathlon 1230-1330 chow 1330-1430 occupy a patrol base in cold regions 1430-1530 site reset 1530-1630 aar Gear List -Sleeping bag with bivy cover rated to at least 0 degrees -Silk moisture wicking top and bottom(ecwcs level 1 or equivalent) -Insulating “long John” style top and bottom(ecwcs level 2 or equivalent) -Breathable water resistant outer shell top and bottom(ecwcs level 5 or equivalent ) -Heavy outer shell jacket(ecwcs level 7 or equivalent) -Fleece style cap that covers ears -Balaclava -2 pairs lightweight gloves(outdoor research sensor for example) -1 pair heavy gloves(should be able to fit hands in with lightweight gloves on) -1 pair mittens or 3 finger gloves(outdoor research high camp for example) -3 pairs wool socks -Boots: should be warm and waterproof. I am a big believer of vapor barrier boots(bunny boots). If just wearing insulated boots keep in mind when they get wet they are very hard to dry. Consider vapor barrier socks if going that route. Vapor barrier boots will be available for those who do not possess them and notify us they require them and their size NLT 30 days prior to the course. -Insulated sleeping pad -Poncho or tarp -Rucksack -100ft 550 cord -Pocket knife -Lighter -Headlamp with extra batteries -Water source(keep in mind camelback hoses and narrow mouth canteens freeze easily. Recommend wide mouth nalgenes or similar with insulated cover.) -Personal hygiene items -Snowshoes with ski poles (Snowshoes and poles will be available if you do not possess these items) -Shovel (Avalanche shovel is highly recommended, e-tool at a minimum) -Centerfire rifle 7.62 NATO or below in caliber, bolt action, semi auto, or select fire. -If the rifle utilizes stripper clips, sufficient clips for at least 24 rounds are required. -If the rifle utilizes detachable magazines, no less than three magazines AND the ability to have at least 24 rounds loaded in magazines is required. -Rifles require a sling, cleaning kit, eye/ear pro, and a barrel cap to keep snow out. -30 rounds of rifle ammunition. If utilizing a 5.56 NATO rifle, ammunition can be provided on request for students registered by 17 NOV 2021. Students registering after 17 NOV 2021 may receive 5.56 NATO ammunition on a first come, first serve basis. -15' sling rope Optional: Neck gaiter Over white top and bottom Poncho liner “woobie” Heavy trousers(ecwcs level 7 or equivalent) Thick insulation layer (ecwcs level 3 or smokers jacket or equivalent) Waterproof top and bottom(ecwcs level 6 or equivalent) Jetboil Small cook set EDITED 10 NOV 2021 to add a 15' sling rope to the mandatory gear list, and to say happy birthday Marines. |
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I shoot down to -40f but have shot down to -65f. That said in those temps most people will likely be trying to stay warm, not raid you. MOST. That’s a really good idea since most people don’t realize how tiring true cold is, caloric intake needed for it, how their guns function or malfunction, etc. should be enlightening. |
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Attached File Send me to JOTC any day, butt fuck the cold with a rusty entrenching tool wrapped in razor wire. |
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Quoted: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/BB4D3AC7-0C24-49A0-9154-F07A7C6B4B81-134.gif Send me to JOTC any day, butt fuck the cold with a rusty entrenching tool wrapped in razor wire. Put on a jacket and some bibs, you're fine.  Y'all don't realize, when it's that cold, there's no humidity and your clothes actually work. |
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Great post, OP, thank you for putting it up. I turn into the biggest bitch when winter hits. Years ago, I lost about 150lbs. I used to be able to be outside when it was 30 outside in a t shirt and shorts. Obviously, I was a fat fuck back then, and thus, well-insulated. Ever since I lost the weight (going on 14 years ago now), my body's ability to acclimate has been abysmal. The worst part is the fact that I have Reynaud's, and normally, I shoot centerfire and rimfire precision rifle comps almost every month. I just can't do it with the Reynaud's. It's just too fucking painful. I have looked into electronic warming gloves, but I'm a cheap fucker. LOL! I do know that running your gear, at least your primary/secondary firearms, in the freezing cold, is absolutely necessary. Those temps will expose any flaws. IME, the flaws arise from folks not using a quality lubricant. Also, any electronics, sights in particular, are most fallible in freezing temps. |
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Quoted: How does cold affect you? How does it affect efficiency when planning operations for a group? How do you thrive and turn extreme cold austere conditions to your advantage? The American Pioneer Corps will be conducting an Introduction to Winter/Cold Weather Operations course in western Montana 17-19 December. The course will include accommodations and ammunition for the live fire portion. There are going to be a relatively limited number of seats, but minimal cost involved for participants. Would you like to know more? The old timers around here used to say Spring and Summer is when the trees provide cover. So, like the armies of old, my winter operations will consist of staying in winter quarters. Once the trees bloom, then I can go back to misbehaving. Theoretically of course. |
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Quoted: A car makes a crazy cacophony of sounds when you start it at -25F. At -40, it's not just a whole new cacophony, it's pissed off. Quoted: Quoted: Pretty fucking good, considering I see temps of -40 (before wind-chill) pretty regularly. Flat spotted tires, anyone? A car makes a crazy cacophony of sounds when you start it at -25F. At -40, it's not just a whole new cacophony, it's pissed off. You're not wrong. If your battery will take it, the noises are pretty impressive. Lots of things hiss/screech/howl. |
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Quoted: The old timers around here used to say Spring and Summer is when the trees provide cover. So, like the armies of old, my winter operations will consist of staying in winter quarters. Once the trees bloom, then I can go back to misbehaving. Theoretically of course. Quoted: Quoted: How does cold affect you? How does it affect efficiency when planning operations for a group? How do you thrive and turn extreme cold austere conditions to your advantage? The American Pioneer Corps will be conducting an Introduction to Winter/Cold Weather Operations course in western Montana 17-19 December. The course will include accommodations and ammunition for the live fire portion. There are going to be a relatively limited number of seats, but minimal cost involved for participants. Would you like to know more? The old timers around here used to say Spring and Summer is when the trees provide cover. So, like the armies of old, my winter operations will consist of staying in winter quarters. Once the trees bloom, then I can go back to misbehaving. Theoretically of course. Nobody would be out in this weather... If you can retain mobility, but your adversary can't, that gives you a decided advantage. Cold, and specifically snow, can hinder operations to the point they grind to a standstill. |
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Quoted: How does cold affect you? How does it affect efficiency when planning operations for a group? How do you thrive and turn extreme cold austere conditions to your advantage? The American Pioneer Corps will be conducting an Introduction to Winter/Cold Weather Operations course in western Montana 17-19 December. The course will include accommodations and ammunition for the live fire portion. There are going to be a relatively limited number of seats, but minimal cost involved for participants. Would you like to know more? Anything less that about 60f and I'm worthless. 
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Humans can dress for extreme cold weather (especially with cold weather clothing and footwear made of modern materials), but ammo and weapons are difficult to insulate from the cold while carried at “the ready” in the practical sense. Extreme cold weather compromises ammunition propellants and primers, so weapons may or may not operate optimally as they would in warmer ambient temperatures. Read about how weapons from small arms up to mortars and FA performed during the war in Korea. We were completely unprepared during the winter of ‘50-‘51. Also, plan on a method to carry water so it doesn’t freeze due to exposure. Research the hard lessons learned, don’t “reinvent the wheel” relearning them the hard way. |
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My mossberg 930 runs fine in the single digits when duck hunting. That's about all I know. I hunted all last year in unlined fishing waders with unlined boots. I fared OK but it did suck. Excited to see how my 30$ on clearance from gander mountain neoprene waders do. That's my experience with cold weather "operating" |
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"Cold weather training? Who needs that crap."- Napoleon/Hitler, probably. Sounds like fun. I would contend that oper8ing in mid 30s rain is probably as technically challenging. Not only do you need to be warm, you need to be dry and covered in shells constantly and keep water off your optics and mud out of everything. And your hands will be frozen and most gloves won't help because they get soggy. Of course, I've only dealt with anything close to real cold in the mountains. My brief time in Montana cold was quite something. |
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Quoted: A car makes a crazy cacophony of sounds when you start it at -25F. At -40, it's not just a whole new cacophony, it's pissed off. True story. Usually takes a few attempts to even let my truck idle in neutral with the clutch engaged below -20F. It's not happy about that. Tranny fluid turns to paste. Shifting is almost a 2 handed ordeal and in slow motion until the motor heat creeps into the tranny. If it's cold enough it never even warms up enough to may shifting feel normal and the heat it blows is like warm. For some reason I'm always stuck doing fencing between -10 and -20. It sucks. Can't feel my toes or fingers, probably in a sweatshirt sweating my ass off and dreading feeling my ears thawing out. |
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Going thru the Bosnia winter without a working heater in the Bradley while in the turret, affected me. Fuck. I believe it caused my Reynauds syndrome. I do much better in the heat, like Desert Storm. Much better. I would still do it all over again for my America! |
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Quoted: I would love to find an APC group in Western WA...... (not knowledgeable enough to start one, I hike and shoot recreationally but my skills are limited) We had a solid group in Western Wa a couple years ago doing lots of hikes, radio, land nav, shooting, stop the Bleed style course. Get in touch with @tnc |
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The coldest I’ve ever been is -35f air temp. It sucked. I worked, at bit slower pace, but got through it. I’ve been out when the wind chill was down to -60, but no idea what the real temp was. Eat more, drink warm water if you can, be careful sleeping. Stay out of the wind and don’t waste energy. APC really needs to up their game in the Midwest. |
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Quoted: The coldest I’ve ever been is -35f air temp. It sucked. I worked, at bit slower pace, but got through it. I’ve been out when the wind chill was down to -60, but no idea what the real temp was. Eat more, drink warm water if you can, be careful sleeping. Stay out of the wind and don’t waste energy. APC really needs to up their game in the Midwest. On leave from Army...Goose hunting with dad in Oshkosh, Nebraska. -47! December 22, 1989. Fuuuck is was cold. Booger freezed instantly. Dad kept our Bronco II running all night. Temp gauge still pegged at C . Fuck it was cold. Shot my goose. |
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Quoted: How does cold affect you? How does it affect efficiency when planning operations for a group? How do you thrive and turn extreme cold austere conditions to your advantage? The American Pioneer Corps will be conducting an Introduction to Winter/Cold Weather Operations course in western Montana 17-19 December. The course will include accommodations and ammunition for the live fire portion. There are going to be a relatively limited number of seats, but minimal cost involved for participants. Would you like to know more? I usually just refuse to act like a pussy... it has worked pretty well for me |
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Quoted: How does cold affect you? How does it affect efficiency when planning operations for a group? How do you thrive and turn extreme cold austere conditions to your advantage? The American Pioneer Corps will be conducting an Introduction to Winter/Cold Weather Operations course in western Montana 17-19 December. The course will include accommodations and ammunition for the live fire portion. There are going to be a relatively limited number of seats, but minimal cost involved for participants. Would you like to know more? I’ve camped and shot down to -20f. If you have never done it I would highly recommend it! It is a whole different mind set! |
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Quoted: You're not wrong. If your battery will take it, the noises are pretty impressive. Lots of things hiss/screech/howl. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pretty fucking good, considering I see temps of -40 (before wind-chill) pretty regularly. Flat spotted tires, anyone? A car makes a crazy cacophony of sounds when you start it at -25F. At -40, it's not just a whole new cacophony, it's pissed off. You're not wrong. If your battery will take it, the noises are pretty impressive. Lots of things hiss/screech/howl. This is why you are plug your vehicle in, it helps. 
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