Posted: 7/13/2006 8:57:06 AM EDT
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I am in the process of scoping out some designs for a small gun room in my basement. I was wondering what your thoughts were if I used concrete board on the walls for security and fireretardant? Thanks |
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You mean like the board you'd use as a backer for tile? It might be good to help retard fire, but its worthless for any sort of security. If you want some security from a smash n grab and fire, mount the backerboard to some 3/4" plywood and mount that to the framing for the room with drywall screws and construction adhesive. |
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You want to use aluminum studs on 12-inch centers (max). Insert steel rebar horizontally through the studs from top to bottom, maybe every 12 inches or so. Insert fire-resistant batt or foam-panel insulation. Overlay that on both sides with expanded steel mesh, overlay that on both sides with cement board, and overlay THAT on both sides with 5/8" or thicker drywall. Install door. Don't forget the door. Enjoy!  Or just buy yourself a BIG gun safe like I did. 
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I've been tossing ideas around with a friend, regarding gun room construction. One idea I had was to frame my interior walls with steel studs, route re-bar horizontally through the studs, then using plywood as forms/inner/outer wall layer. fill the wall with concrete. The walls will be pretty fire proof, much harder to break through, but still have the thickness and appearance of a "normal" wall. Overall cost should not be too high.  NH |
Actually, it may work to your benefit. It would make a great safe room in the event of a tornado, hurricane, etc. Depending on the location and natural disaster it could be a good selling point. |
| Ours has concrete & rebar foundation on three sides. We reinforced the third wall with just some 5/8 plywood. We installed a heavy steel door with a stout lock assembly. Will it keep a pro out? Hell no, but it might delay him a bit. Will it keep a kid out? Damn right and that's what it was meant to do. Even if someone gets in, they still have to crack the safes. We have three keys and they are treated like keys to the NUCWEPS magazine. |
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I haven't done this yet, but hope to do so in a couple of years in conjuction with a larger house addition project. That being said, I do already have one good piece of advice for you: When drawing up your plans, figure out how much space you think you ever might possibly need under any forseeable scenario, then add just a little extra for good measure... ... then DOUBLE that. 
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Thats exactly what I'm talking about. So mount the plywood to the studs... then the concrete board on top? |
Thats a good idea. My wife mentioned the safe.. But I kind of liked the room idea. Hmmmm |
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Again, neither the concrete board nor the drywall will give you any real measure of security. For that, in the application described, you need expanded metal mesh. Trust me on this. I was taught this shit by my BIL, who spent two years travelling the Middle East building rooms just like this in U.S. Embassies. Is it a VAULT? Nope, but the next best thing. |
Well, in my case, the safe worked better because I simply didn't have where to build the room in question. The safe I got measures 6 feet tall, over 3 feet wide, and just over 2 feet deep. It will hold a maximum of 54 long guns REALLY tight, but my interior is coming in a 43-gun arrangement. 1/4-inch steel all around. If I had a basement, though, I would have done a gun room, no doubt.
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In the future I'm planning on building one in the basement and using something like this for the walls and ceiling: http://www.firechemicals.com/ XCT-1™ Fire Retardant Coating and Insulator. XCT-1™ Space Age Technology Patent Pending Now the number one fire retardant maker brings in a new class of fire retardant protection to meet the newest national fire codes for fire safety demands. XCT-1 ™ has been in the making for eight years. Test after test by Universal Protective Technologies Labs show XCT-1™ to be a Class A coating meeting Class 1and 2 ratings and the most practical solution to insulating against high temperture and flame. Better and exceeds fire rated gypsum board, better than Monokote. Easier to handle. light weight and accessible where sheet rock is difficult to set. An organic and inorganic based thermal product with no EPA issues no asbestos. XCT-1 is a light weight product yet superior in performance and easy to apply. Property test ASTM E-605, E-760 Passes, E-759 Passes. Flame spread 5, Smoke Dev. 0. Shelf life 2 years in dry area. Temperature conductivity ASTM C-447 from 100F degrees to 1800F degrees. Developed for the building trade to assist the National Fire Codes now in force. XCT-1™ can help reach the 1 hour and 2 hour ratings or more as required by code enforcement in many areas. This unique compound of organic and inorganic materials and fire retardant chemicals makes it the best fire retardant coating and insulator ever produced. It has no odor, environmentally safe and no problems with clean-up. Clean up with water and soap if needed. Excellent qualities for ceilings, walls, between floors and steel beams. Can be applied on sheet rock, galvanized steal, iron and most surfaces. An organic textured application that can be left as is or painted after application. Recommended for Commercial and Industrial use. This unique product can also be used as a fire stop compound for penetration holes. APPLICATIONS: COMMERCIAL, INDUSTRIAL AND RESIDENTIAL An exclusive formula flame and heat inhibiting compound. A SUPERIOR GRADE. Thermal High Heat coating rated Class "A", Class I & 2. Specifically formulated for maximum protection on ceilings and walls, steel beams and tank insulation where high fire and heat resistance is required. INTERIOR applications, meets and exceeds the surface burning characteristics for applied coatings. Can be applied to porous and non-porous surfaces. For other uses contact your distributor or corporate office. A system to achieve 1 and 2 hour ratings. Because it can be applied on most surfaces and hard to reach areas, XCT-1 solves many problems that must be addressed. This product is sold as a dry mix with a current additive in large and small quantities. One bag of XCT-1 will produce 7.5 gallons of material. For large projects dry weight in 40 lb. bags or fiber containers. Spread rate: Spread rate will depend on the measure of fire protection desired. Example, 1/8" = 30 Minutes 1/4"= 1 hour . 1/2" or more = 2 hours. Heavier the coating higher the insulating factor. Spread rate: 1/4" approx. 40 sq. ft. to 50 sq. ft. per bag of dry mix depending on thickness of application. Applied by hopper, roter pump, plaster or texture pump systems, typical for ceiling and wall textured compound applications. Can also be applied by hand trowel and other. As a stop it can seal cracks, cabling, plumbing and other penetration holes. |
What is your project budget?  After the safe/vault, build a nice comfortable den/office/bar/smoking lounge around it. |
I hate you! 
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Very Nice Safe.. What kind? |
True. But someone really has to know what you have in that room to go through the trouble of getting in it. The average criminal or burgular want quick in and out stuff. Why would they want to spend the time trying to get into a room they don't know what's in it :) besides.. my dogs would have eaten them by now. :) |
| The people who broke into my cousins house out in the boonies took the time to go in his garage, find a cutting torch and cut a hole in his safe big enough to get all the contents out. We think it was someone he knew, noone else would have gone to that trouble or known he had both a safe and a welding setup. |
...and throw in an M16A1 with M203 and Tony Montana would be proud. |
Sure, you can do that when its just a sheet of concrete board sitting on your driveway, but not when its screwed down every 8 inches and up against expanded metal and steel studs. |
I guess if someone has the time an energy to get your shit. They will get it. |
Plywood forms then pour in the concrete, depending on how much clearance you have, it would be a bitch i'd imagine. |
I think his point is that it could easily be cut through with a sledgehammer, Sawzall and a pack of extra blades. Do you really want to secure your firearms that way? Go with cinder clocks, minimum. If you are going to keep the firearms in a safe, inside that room, then it would be a pretty good setup. Otherwise, like I said, any run of the mill thief can run a recipricating saw, and I have 6 of them sitting around .
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No. We have just one stout lock in the heavy steel door. My son has a key, I have one and She Who Must be Obeyed has one. I considered mounting small safes on the walls of the basement addition when we had it finished, one for a "green" key and one for a "white" key and ensure that the safes were at least six feet apart and fitted with the usual S&G combination lock...but Miz LWilde refused to let me mount the safes. I thought it was a dandy idea...but no...  I have actually considered installing an FZ alarm. 
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Start Here. That is the guy that will do my vault this fall/winter when I build my house. Mine will be between 5' and 8' wide and 14' - 16' deep. It will be concrete and steel with steel mesh in the concrete. The door will be one of his pocket doors and the locking mechanism is magnetic. To open it will require biometric access with a backup keypad. A secondary backup will be a key that causes the locks to fail open. This keyhole will be somewhere very hidden in the house, as in not in the same room as the vault entrance. The intent of this structure is not only as a vault for guns and valuables, but also as a "panic room" for hurricanes. I forgot what he said the fire rating would be, but IIRC it was higher than any safe I had seen. I figure that if someone can break into that, they can have it. The only thing that I could do more secure is claymores around the perimeter and explosive trip wires at the door, but the wife said no . BTW - it will be 8' tall. BTW2 - I promise to post detailed pics when construction time comes. ETA: The cost of this will be between 12k-15k |
  Stop it! You're killing me! 
Oh, snap! Refresh my memory! I remember that from my Boat days (and too few they were). |
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When I was doing construction, the plans for one house specified a hidden safe room on the main floor, with access from the basement after flipping a switch in the pantry. Even after seeing where the saferoom was, plans in hand, we could not figure out just where the access was. Tip to owners: Don't leave sensitive info like that around where 50+ construction workers have first hand info like this. |