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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/28/2001 8:28:56 PM EDT
Well, I finally decided to sell my glock and get a 1911. (It kinda feels like dumping my old girlfriend in highschool). I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my post a couple of days ago, your input is greatly appreciated. I have a few follow up questions though. 1.) First, what's a fair price to offer a glock 22 (2nd generation frame) with night sites, 5 mags (2 post ban, 3 high caps), all in excellent condition? I'm going to include two nylon holsters (one duty holster/right hand; second one an ambidextrous clip on belt holster) and a nylon 2 mag pouch? It was just completely gone over by a glock armoror about 200 rounds ago. About 2000 rounds total. 2.) I'm going to try each one out before I buy, but does anyone care to recommend a particular model for roughly $750 or less? I was thinking Kimber, Colt, Springfield, or possibly Para Ordnance. Definately want a full size, and the salt air where I live is a concern if SHTF should happen and I have to subject it to some rough treatment, although reflectivity is also a concern. I was told Para Ordinance and Colt have some reliability issues and low end Springfield stuff has sub-par triggers. I also really hate the politically correct integral lock thing. Well, that's a lot of babble, but I appreciate your thoughts. You guys are awesome.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 8:40:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dillweed: 1.) First, what's a fair price to offer a glock 22 (2nd generation frame) with night sites, 5 mags (2 post ban, 3 high caps), all in excellent condition? I'm going to include two nylon holsters (one duty holster/right hand; second one an ambidextrous clip on belt holster) and a nylon 2 mag pouch? It was just completely gone over by a glock armoror about 200 rounds ago. About 2000 rounds total.
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Your best bet is to sell the gun with the 2 postban mags and holsters for about $400-450 and sell the preban mags online (try [url]www.subguns.com[/url] 's Accessories Board) for about $75 each.
2.) I'm going to try each one out before I buy, but does anyone care to recommend a particular model for roughly $750 or less? I was thinking Kimber, Colt, Springfield, or possibly Para Ordnance. Definately want a full size, and the salt air where I live is a concern if SHTF should happen and I have to subject it to some rough treatment, although reflectivity is also a concern.
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For $750 you can get a Kimber Classic Stainless, a Springfield Loaded Stainless or a Colt 1991A1 stainless. I am not sure if you can get a Para Ordnance P14 stainless for that price or not. Of those three, I would reccommend the Springfield or the Kimber...they come with extras such as extended thumb safety, beavertail grip safety and high-profile fixed sights that the Colt does not. The Kimber will be a bit more accurate and have a better trigger, while the Springfield will have better sights and a better finish, but will also have a few more sharp edges. It's your call. I have no experience with the Springfield Loaded pistols first hand, but a friend who has one says he loves it. I have a great deal of experience with Kimbers and highly reccommend them. Good luck with your sale and your purchase.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 8:43:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2001 8:45:09 PM EDT by Confederate]
If you have to get a 1911, at least go with the Kimber Polymer, you can still get 14 round mags for it, but they are expensive. 14 rounds in a .45 caliber, thats take down power! KEEP the Glock, NEVER get rid of a gun.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 8:45:07 PM EDT
Couldn't master the Glock trigger, eh?
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 6:13:27 AM EDT
Hey Landon, you know something? Not all guns fit all people. Glocks point high for me and no, I don't like the trigger AS MUCH as I like the 1911 trigger. Stop trying to force everyone to like the handgun you like.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 6:44:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 6:50:29 AM EDT
If you part with the G22 you'll look back some day and kick yourself. Get a 1911 also. I really like Para-Ordnance( NOT the GAY LDA version, that's for frootloops!). My P13 has been my buddy for about 7 years and was my all the time gun till I got....A GLOCK.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 7:54:52 AM EDT
Keep the damn glock and spend $285 and get a Rock Island Armory 1911 from Sarco INC or Dealers Warehouse. I spoke with a guy who has one and he said it is a very good gun for the money. Sarco also has some other extras for the gun at a special price when bought with the gun. BrenLover
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 8:00:55 AM EDT
I have a Glock 22 and a Kimber Target SS .45. I highly recomend the Kimber. You will never shoot a gun so well strait from the box. Mine ran $850 but that is because it was the Target model wich has the rear adjustable sights. I shoot IDPA with it and love it. Other 1911 models will be cheaper but you will want work done to it adventually, and Kimber Target had all the right stuff. i give two thumbs up. My next one will be the Kimber ultra carry.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 8:40:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M16Man: Keep the damn glock and spend $285 and get a Rock Island Armory 1911 from Sarco INC or Dealers Warehouse. I spoke with a guy who has one and he said it is a very good gun for the money. Sarco also has some other extras for the gun at a special price when bought with the gun. BrenLover
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You can get the Argentine Modelo 1927 Sistema Colt for around $300.00. They are an excellent copy of the M1911A1 made under Colt supervision for the Argentine military. They are coming in aresenal refinished condition and all parts interchange. An excellent foundation for a competition gun. Much better value than the Rock Island Armory. Check Shotgun News.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 8:47:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 9:08:36 AM EDT
I'd just like to repeat RikWriter's advice:
Your best bet is to sell the gun with the 2 postban mags and holsters for about $400-450 and sell the preban mags online (try www.subguns.com 's Accessories Board) for about $75 each.
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Link Posted: 8/29/2001 9:12:59 AM EDT
Kimber Stainless Target I model. Model II has the built in Integral lock system. Its a tack driver. The Target model comes with "Bo-Mar" wannabe adjustable sights. The Stainless comes with night-sites. see: http://www.kimberamerica.com/Custom_Custom_Target.htm You can find one for around $750.00 or less but will have to hunt around for the deal. Try http://www.sportingarms.com/ in Lewisville, TX...if I remember correctly, his quote on a Stainless Target I was very close to $750.00. "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." H.L. Mencken
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 9:23:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 9:24:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M16Man: Keep the damn glock and spend $285 and get a Rock Island Armory 1911 from Sarco INC or Dealers Warehouse. I spoke with a guy who has one and he said it is a very good gun for the money. Sarco also has some other extras for the gun at a special price when bought with the gun. BrenLover
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Nothing like buying the crappiest 1911 available to turn you off of 1911's. Stay away from Rock Island and Charles Daly and go with either Springfield, Kimber, or an older Colt (70 series).
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 9:25:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Landon: Couldn't master the Glock trigger, eh?
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Why bother when the 1911 has a much better trigger to master.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 9:42:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Hey Landon, you know something? Not all guns fit all people. Glocks point high for me and no, I don't like the trigger AS MUCH as I like the 1911 trigger. Stop trying to force everyone to like the handgun you like.
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Ok it's funny to me to here this from members of the 1911 cult out there. I had both of these guns and let me tell you if you want a heavy 8 shot gun the go with a 1911 that does not like JHP thats fine by me. Before anyone get's on me I had a new Springfield 1911 and a new Colt 1911 and they both did not like my JHP.I thought it was because of the mags I was using so I bought Wilson combat mags and it did not help at all I took it to a gun smith he told me he could not find a thing wrong so I shipped it back to the factory and they told me nothing was wrong but it still did not like any JHP but 230gr ones but it would at lest jam on me once per mag with them . I'm just telling you 1911 do not like some ammo at all and if you get JHP I'd buy at lest 100rd of every kind you think you might carry in the gun and go to the range and shoot all 100rd if the gun does not jam thats the ammo for the 1911 you got. As I said before www.robar.com does reductions on the grips of the Glock 21 you may want to look in on that if you want a 45 ACP. If your going to get a 1911 I say get a Kimber with the hi-cap on it thats what I would get if I would ever buy another 1911. I just hope you have fun with your new gun and don't have the same problems as I did. Just so you know I spent $900 for both of my 1911 so you can see why I don't like them.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 10:20:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tayous1: I had both of these guns and let me tell you if you want a heavy 8 shot gun the go with a 1911 that does not like JHP thats fine by me. Before anyone get's on me I had a new Springfield 1911 and a new Colt 1911 and they both did not like my JHP.I thought it was because of the mags I was using so I bought Wilson combat mags and it did not help at all I took it to a gun smith he told me he could not find a thing wrong so I shipped it back to the factory and they told me nothing was wrong but it still did not like any JHP but 230gr ones but it would at lest jam on me once per mag with them . I'm just telling you 1911 do not like some ammo at all and if you get JHP I'd buy at lest 100rd of every kind you think you might carry in the gun and go to the range and shoot all 100rd if the gun does not jam thats the ammo for the 1911 you got.
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No, tayous, you are incorrect. A correct statement from you would have been: "The ONE Springfield Armory and the ONE Colt I owned did not like certain brands of JHP." That does not equal "all 1911s will not feed JHP." The first thing I do with ANY semiauto handgun I buy for defensive purposes is put several different brands of hollowpoint through it. I have had a couple different 1911s that didn't like one or two brands of JHPs, but for the most part they ate everything I put through them. Hey tayous, I had a Glock 21 that didn't like Speer Gold Dots...does that mean that "Glocks don't feed hollowpoints"? It blows my mind how someone can own one or two examples of a gun made by DOZENS of manufacturers over a CENTURY and claim to know the universal truth about it.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 11:20:22 AM EDT
If you want a 1911, go for it, but why sell the glock? Hate to see someone get rid of a gun needlessly.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 11:35:04 AM EDT
Dillweed: DO NOT GO WITH KIMBER IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT. Kimber has too big of a marketing engine. Don't take my word or the Kimber fanatics words on it...go look at the way they are designed and the way their parts fit together versus a Springfield, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Rock River Arms, etc. Note the beavertail grip safety IS HOLLOW...think about that. Also, no federal or local SWAT organization I know of has ever selected Kimber as standard issue...not a coincidence. For the money you're talking, I would go with a Springfield Armory stainless for about $550. Then, send this to an American Pistolsmiths Guild member (like Teddy Jacobsen at www.triggersbyt.com) and get a good action job done to it for about $100. Best money you'll ever spend. For about $1K you can get a Rock River Arms pistol. Excellent gun for the money. I would recommend a Les Baer or Ed Brown, but they're even more $$$$.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 11:42:06 AM EDT
Sorry Tailgate. You are outnumbered on your opinion of the Kimber. This is by far the best .45 1911 style gun I have ever shot. Everyone else here seems to feel the same way as I do. So Dillweed get the Kimber. And have some fun shooting.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 12:18:09 PM EDT
Yep,thats pretty much the 1911 story,two routes.Get a "base" model and maybe add on the extras you want,or go the full boat for a deluxe and get'em all at once for less money.I have not found any one of the major brands to be heck of alot better or worse than the others.On an individual gun basis,most run just fine right outta the box,a few dont.If yours doesn't,then you get an education on how a 1911 works until you make it run.As far as Para being unreliable thats pure B.S.In fact my P-14-45 has literally never skipped a beat,whilst my 1200$ Kimber had to go thru 3 major operations to make it go bang every time.,but the Para is alot of gun to hide under a t-shirt if CCW is on the menu.Stick with one of the better production guns,steer clear of the 3-400$ crap,and nobody will be happier than you.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 12:32:06 PM EDT
I have Colts and Springfield 1911's. I'd suggest getting one from either manufacturer in stainless if you are concerned about salt spray. Of the two guns I prefer the Springfield myself.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 1:06:17 PM EDT
I have to chime in and agree with downzero. My P1445 has never had a problem with ANY JHP's I have fed it. I think it has to do with the integral feedramp design that Para uses (which BTW makes the chamber stronger as well). For $750, you can get a stainless 1445 and with some shopping you may be able to get a stainless P1445 Limited. The Limited has most of the custom features everybody always gives Kimber credit for as if they are the only manufacturer to offer guns with the custom gadgets from the factory. Nothing against Kimber, mind you, I like'em just fine. But something has to be said for a .45 with 14 in the mag and one in the chamber!!! [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/035/t6/JX/QU/4N68520.jpg[/img] I paid $670 for this one and anywhere from $50 to $80 each for the hicap mags. Never waste your money on non factory mags for a Para - stick with factory mags.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 1:23:49 PM EDT
Hellraiser, I simply repeated what a owner of one told me. What experience with them do YOU have? I dont pretend to know all about 1911s, simply passing on what I was told. Rock River Arms apparently make decent ARs so how could it hurt to try their $285 1911? Maybe you'd be surprised. On one hand 1911 fans say "well if you cant do the job in 7rds you should have a "xyz" but when trying to sell someone on the 1911 they say "oh, get the wide-body-high cap". So do we need the extra rounds or not? BrenLover
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 1:32:45 PM EDT
M16Man - for what it's worth, I only own one 1911 pattern pistol, and it is the Para. I decided before I bought it that lots of rounds is a decidedly good thing in a firearm. True, most gun fights never last that long, but I don't want to be the one that's caught reloading if it ever came to that. The 1445 is a big gun for CCW, so I carry it only in the winter when I can hide it easier. Other times I carry a Glock 30 or a Ruger SP101, depending on the situation. Para does make some much smaller pistols including some single stacks. I would buy a single stack from Para without hesitation, if that were what I was looking for.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 1:43:59 PM EDT
Gus, I agree completely. I dont wanna be reloading at a bad time either, that's why I prefer hi-caps. It just gets to me when 1911 fans have to use the old "if you cant get them in 7 rounds" thing. It's simple if that happens, keep shooting or run! I dont think the Glock is a better gun than a 1911, just better for me. To hear most 1911 fans talk is to think that no other gun compares and we should arm everyone with them, the 45ACP will kill dinasours etc(humor there). For God's sake, if I hear "kimber this" or "Kimber that" one more time I'm gonna flip! BrenLover
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 1:52:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M16Man: For God's sake, if I hear "kimber this" or "Kimber that" one more time I'm gonna flip! BrenLover
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I feel your pain, brother!! [:X*]
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 2:27:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M16Man: Hellraiser, I simply repeated what a owner of one told me. What experience with them do YOU have? I dont pretend to know all about 1911s, simply passing on what I was told. Rock River Arms apparently make decent ARs so how could it hurt to try their $285 1911? Maybe you'd be surprised. On one hand 1911 fans say "well if you cant do the job in 7rds you should have a "xyz" but when trying to sell someone on the 1911 they say "oh, get the wide-body-high cap". So do we need the extra rounds or not? BrenLover
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Yes Rock River Arms makes great stuff, Rock Island is a completely different company that makes crapola, even worse stuff than Charles Daly. Yes I would be surprised if you could shoot a mag through a Rock Island without it falling apart or breaking. I have many many years experience with many different types of 1911s, I tried the CD when they came out as the price was tempting, in the end it was a waste of money. Here's some real experience with a Rock Island: My next door neighbor got one of the new Rock Island Armory .45's the slide & frame are (or seem to be) new and had good fit, the internals are another story ... fresh out of the box it wouldnt extract, upon closer inspection the extractor claw was practically worn away, the fireing pin looked like WWII vintage ... crudy and worn. Trigger, sear, hammer and barrel all looked used. It is crap. The cheapest decent 1911 is a Norinco.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 3:02:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gus:
Originally Posted By M16Man: For God's sake, if I hear "kimber this" or "Kimber that" one more time I'm gonna flip! BrenLover
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I feel your pain, brother!!
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All I can go by are personal experiences...and every single personal experience I have had with any Kimber has been overwhelmingly positive.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 3:02:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tailgate: Dillweed: DO NOT GO WITH KIMBER IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT. Kimber has too big of a marketing engine. Don't take my word or the Kimber fanatics words on it....
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My latest piece is a Kimber. It is more accurate, out of the box, than my '90s edition Springfield. The Springfield has a fitted Bar-Sto barrel. Of course, the Springfield has a ton of rounds through it (including, but not limited to, 8 lbs of W231, 5 grains at a time . . . ), and I can take it down without a bushing wrench. But I was still surprised . . . One thing about the Kimber is that is has a [i]very[/i] tight chamber. No doubt adds to accuracy, but I'd rather have one that is a little looser. The only failures I've had with the Kimber are failures to go into battery, due to the tight chamber. But the Springfiled with the Bar-Sto (Marine Corp cut barrel) fed the rounds that wouldn't work in the Kimber, no problem. You can blame me in this, reloads with cast lead bullets that were probably out of spec, but I like the fact the Springfield didn't have any problems. IMO, the Kimber would be perfect if they loosened the chamber just a wee bit . . .
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 3:09:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: All I can go by are personal experiences...and every single personal experience I have had with any Kimber has been overwhelmingly positive.
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As I said in my earlier post, I have nothing against Kimber. They make a fine weapon indeed! I simply prefer Para. I have been thinking of one of those "melted for carry" Kimbers though. Maybe after I get my P1445 Limited.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 3:17:23 PM EDT
HellRaiser, my bad, I got the two companies mixed up.[%|] My buddy owns a surplus store and bought the components and put one together. He likes it, what can I say, it's only what he told me. As far as the "K" word...[whacko] BrenLover
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 3:27:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M16Man: HellRaiser, my bad, I got the two companies mixed up.[%|] My buddy owns a surplus store and bought the components and put one together. He likes it, what can I say, it's only what he told me. As far as the "K" word...[whacko] BrenLover
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No problem. Yeah I'm not a huge fan of Kimber either but I have friends that seem to like theirs. I prefer high-end Springfields (TRP models) and series 70 Colts, and Les Baers.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 3:28:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tayous1: Before anyone get's on me I had a new Springfield 1911 and a new Colt 1911 and they both did not like my JHP. . . . any JHP but 230gr ones but it would at lest jam on me once per mag with them . I'm just telling you 1911 do not like some ammo at all and if you get JHP I'd buy at lest 100rd of every kind you think you might carry in the gun and go to the range and shoot all 100rd if the gun does not jam thats the ammo for the 1911 you got.
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My neighbor had an old WW2 Colt 1911A1 (marked US Government Property). It handled JHPs just fine, at leat the ones we tried: 185 gr Sierra JHPs, and 200 gr Speer "flying ashtrays". And it was completely stock. The same neighbor also had a 1938 Nazi Luger (matching SNs, 90% finish). It liked some 9 mm ball just fine, and had problems with others. We never tried JHPs. I had a friend with a stock 1911 back in the 70s. We didn't know it wasn't supposed to shoot JHPs, so we went through a bunch of those Remington 185 gr JHPs without a hitch. My Springfield 1911 handles JHPs fine, too. Then again, it will feed a shell casing. But it's been tuned, with a fitter Bar-Sto barrel and all. The JHPs I've used in it are Black Talons, Federal Hydroshocks (165s and 230s), and Hornady XTPs. I did try a Desert Eagle .50 AE that jammed once per magazine. And this, after the company "fixed" the problem. My brother-in-law's best friend had a SIG P-226 that was a jam-o-matic. I think this was with ball. And this was after sending the gun back to the factory for repair. The Glocks I've tried had only occasional jams. But this was with ball.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 4:24:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dillweed: 2.) I'm going to try each one out before I buy, but does anyone care to recommend a particular model for roughly $750 or less? I was thinking Kimber, Colt, Springfield, or possibly Para Ordnance. Definately want a full size, and the salt air where I live is a concern if SHTF should happen and I have to subject it to some rough treatment, although reflectivity is also a concern. I was told Para Ordinance and Colt have some reliability issues and low end Springfield stuff has sub-par triggers. I also really hate the politically correct integral lock thing.
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Go with a stainless Kimber Custom Classic. Feed it only from Wilson 7 or 8 round magazines and you will be happy (hollowpoints or not). Tritium sights are the only other thing you may want. If you're on a budget you can get by with a tritium front sight only for $30-50.
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