[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gen 2 Keltec Sub-2000 (Page 3 of 3)
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Quoted: CDNN has black, brown, and tan, for $799  And where is "here"?  Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's fantastic. They gonna build more than 3 per quarter? Fucking Kel-Tec. I'd buy one of those and a KSG if they had any manufacturing capacity.  KSGs are everywhere here. Can't give them away. And where is "here"? |
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God damnit i just want a sub gun that accepts ar style stocks and ar style free float tubes. And no i dont want a god damned 9mm AR15. here ya go |
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I will repeat myself and state again that it's completely true that if you spend a few minutes researching online, looking around in the proper forums, and actually spending the effort to put out a wide net, you can indeed find even the unobtanium Keltec's for something close to MSRP. Sub2000's and PMR 30's especially, seeing as the KSG panic has largely subsided I won't even list them anymore.
Most people who spend years bitching they can't find this-or-that Keltec model would ALL have one within a few months at most, and for maybe not more than $100 over MSRP, if they'd gotten on the wait list of a few carefully selected gun stores. Unobtanium ? "I didn't see it at one LGS and Cabela's" 
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God damnit i just want a sub gun that accepts ar style stocks and ar style free float tubes. And no i dont want a god damned 9mm AR15. here ya go Never heard of them before. Is that top rail standard? The pic makes it look taller than normal but it's hard to tell with a gun that's not a AR. |
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Never heard of them before. Is that top rail standard? The pic makes it look taller than normal but it's hard to tell with a gun that's not a AR. Quoted:
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God damnit i just want a sub gun that accepts ar style stocks and ar style free float tubes. And no i dont want a god damned 9mm AR15. here ya go Never heard of them before. Is that top rail standard? The pic makes it look taller than normal but it's hard to tell with a gun that's not a AR. I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll link the thread about that rifle http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1713084_Nano_9mm_Carbine.html |
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Perhaps he pulls enough money out of the company every year to lead a very comfortable lifestyle and he is happy with that. Not everybody wants to be at the helm of a huge company. Also, I don't think it is a bad thing to be making a product that supply is far outpaced by demand. Selling from scarcity is a pretty good way to keep your margins up. If you are the only game in town it is a great plan, (say seecamp in the 80's and 90's). But eventually some one will fill that gap in the market. That is beginning to happen. Glock mag ar lowers, the centerfire carbine, JRc etc. While none of them fold, the folding factor is not a must for everyone. Use me as an example. I tried to get a keltec that took glock mags for years but could only find them at scalper prices that I refused to pay. Finally, I decided fuck it and started looking at other 9mm carbines. I eventually said mag compatibility is nice but holy shit I can get a hipoint and 10 or 20 mags for less than a JRC or what a 9mm ar would cost. So I said fuck it and got a hi-point. Cons, it does not fold, it weighs more it does not take glock mags. Pro's? The gun, 6 mags and buttstock mag holder were about $325 and I could get it ordered in no problem. Their customer service is the best I have ever experienced in the gun world. The gun is accurate reliable and available. Now when people talk about a 9mm carbine guess what I recommend? Quoted:
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Ah, got ya. I just see people throwing out the "Kel-tec is being responsible by not going into debt" argument a lot, and such thoughts miss the point that debt is not always a bad thing. On the contrary, sometimes it's exactly what is needed. I agree, it's probably inertia more than anything. To grow, Kel-tec would need to step out of its comfort zone. And the owner may not be willing to do that. So... know any pro-gun well heeled angel investors? Maybe we can figure out a way to force Keltec, kicking and screaming if need be, into quadrupling their manufacturing capacity or more?
Although seriously, I'm wondering if someone couldn't convince Kelgren to split Keltec into two different companies. One for the P32, the P3AT, and PF9 that's their bread-n-butter, and then a second one "Keltec Holdings" or somesuch that goes balls-to-the-wall with financing to make PMR30's, SUB-2000's, CMR-30's, RDB's, RFB's, that retro M34, and KSG's as fast as they can. The "meh" stuff, like the SU16's SU22's and PLR... toss a coin I guess. Let the original Keltec hold the IP on all designs, and license them to "KT Holdings Inc.", and if KT Holdings Inc. goes tits-up for some reason, the original Keltec is firewalled off, and they haven't really lost anything and they can go back to the ho-hum slowpoke version of "business as usual". That would be one possible avenue IF Kelgren was seriously interested in growing the company. But his avoidance of even routine debt financing would suggest he doesn't like things to get too complicated. This all kinda reminds me of Robinson Armament. The only thing standing between that company being massively successful versus being what it is today, is Alex Robinson. Perhaps he pulls enough money out of the company every year to lead a very comfortable lifestyle and he is happy with that. Not everybody wants to be at the helm of a huge company. Also, I don't think it is a bad thing to be making a product that supply is far outpaced by demand. Selling from scarcity is a pretty good way to keep your margins up. If you are the only game in town it is a great plan, (say seecamp in the 80's and 90's). But eventually some one will fill that gap in the market. That is beginning to happen. Glock mag ar lowers, the centerfire carbine, JRc etc. While none of them fold, the folding factor is not a must for everyone. Use me as an example. I tried to get a keltec that took glock mags for years but could only find them at scalper prices that I refused to pay. Finally, I decided fuck it and started looking at other 9mm carbines. I eventually said mag compatibility is nice but holy shit I can get a hipoint and 10 or 20 mags for less than a JRC or what a 9mm ar would cost. So I said fuck it and got a hi-point. Cons, it does not fold, it weighs more it does not take glock mags. Pro's? The gun, 6 mags and buttstock mag holder were about $325 and I could get it ordered in no problem. Their customer service is the best I have ever experienced in the gun world. The gun is accurate reliable and available. Now when people talk about a 9mm carbine guess what I recommend? |
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The RFB is the only gun I have still never seen in a gun store. I wish it was available and took Armalite pattern mags. I would be set!!! Quoted:
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The RFB / RDB is the best thing they've ever created. The RFB is the only gun I have still never seen in a gun store. I wish it was available and took Armalite pattern mags. I would be set!!! I am with you man. I've been lusting over the RFB for years. I hope I can snag one before they disappear, if that is a true rumor. |
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I will repeat myself and state again that it's completely true that if you spend a few minutes researching online, looking around in the proper forums, and actually spending the effort to put out a wide net, you can indeed find even the unobtanium Keltec's for something close to MSRP. Sub2000's and PMR 30's especially, seeing as the KSG panic has largely subsided I won't even list them anymore. Most people who spend years bitching they can't find this-or-that Keltec model would ALL have one within a few months at most, and for maybe not more than $100 over MSRP, if they'd gotten on the wait list of a few carefully selected gun stores. Unobtanium ? "I didn't see it at one LGS and Cabela's" So, I can pay 509 or more for a $409 gun and get it in a few months on a waiting list after spending a bunch of time researching on line to find the few select gunstores that have a less than two year wait list (No I did not make that up. Two local shops were told they could get on a wait list by their distributor and it was a two year wait.). Others just said nope sorry. Or I can spend $275 for a for a $297 MSRP gun in the same caliber and that $275 includes three extra mags, sales tax and transfer. Does it take glock mags? Nope. Does it fold in half? Nope. Does it weigh more? Yes. Will it do everything else the KT will? Yep. Can my local gunshop have it here in a week? Yep. Sorry, I ain't paying over MSRP for a gun unless it has feature that 1)nothing else has and two) that feature (or features) is actually something I need. Additionally, at 509 the KT becomes less attractive to a lot of people. You can build an ar in 9mm for not much more money. IIRC there are also companies that make glock mag specific lowers that are only a little more cash. You still don't have the folding feature and it may weigh more, but if you run an ar rifle you have commonality of training which to me is a bigger pro than the con of not folding. For $549 you can get the centerfire system carbine that runs glock mags (not an option when I gave up on KT and went with the hi-point. Wouldn't be an option for me now as I am never the guy who buys a gun before it has been out for at least a year.). Another option in the 500-600 price range is a CCU from mectech ($300) and a used glock frame (150-200). And you can get most of those without a several month wait. So unless you are a keltec fanboy or have a need for the folding feature why wait? |
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Quoted: The RFB is the only gun I have still never seen in a gun store. I wish it was available and took Armalite pattern mags. I would be set!!! You mean original Armalite pattern mags? Moses mags can be modified to run, or you can use metric Thermolds or original FALs. |
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You mean original Armalite pattern mags? Moses mags can be modified to run, or you can use metric Thermolds or original FALs. Quoted:
Quoted: The RFB is the only gun I have still never seen in a gun store. I wish it was available and took Armalite pattern mags. I would be set!!! You mean original Armalite pattern mags? Moses mags can be modified to run, or you can use metric Thermolds or original FALs. Nope just the current Armalite AR10 mags as that is what I have. I don't want any more may variety although I'm sure it will happen one day. |
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Nope just the current Armalite AR10 mags as that is what I have. I don't want any more may variety although I'm sure it will happen one day. Quoted:
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Quoted: The RFB is the only gun I have still never seen in a gun store. I wish it was available and took Armalite pattern mags. I would be set!!! You mean original Armalite pattern mags? Moses mags can be modified to run, or you can use metric Thermolds or original FALs. Nope just the current Armalite AR10 mags as that is what I have. I don't want any more may variety although I'm sure it will happen one day. The Armalite AR-10B mag is an evolutionary dead end. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/669426__308_AR_magazine_compatibility.html |
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Perhaps he pulls enough money out of the company every year to lead a very comfortable lifestyle and he is happy with that. Not everybody wants to be at the helm of a huge company. Also, I don't think it is a bad thing to be making a product that supply is far outpaced by demand. Selling from scarcity is a pretty good way to keep your margins up. I like Kel-Tec products. I have owned a few. But I get turned off by the sights. I hate plastic sights. I wish he offered upgrades to steel sights. |
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The Armalite AR-10B mag is an evolutionary dead end. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/669426__308_AR_magazine_compatibility.html Quoted:
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Quoted: The RFB is the only gun I have still never seen in a gun store. I wish it was available and took Armalite pattern mags. I would be set!!! You mean original Armalite pattern mags? Moses mags can be modified to run, or you can use metric Thermolds or original FALs. Nope just the current Armalite AR10 mags as that is what I have. I don't want any more may variety although I'm sure it will happen one day. The Armalite AR-10B mag is an evolutionary dead end. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/669426__308_AR_magazine_compatibility.html They work fine for me. I thought my statement was pretty clear as a wish and nothing more. |
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Quoted: You need to strike while the iron is hot, and Kel-tec doesn't. And it doesn't appear that they really even try. In spite of the fact that every one of those guns has been hugely popular, massive discussion on the web and in gun rags, supplies of all of them, even years later remains exceptionally thin. We've been through six years of unprecedented demand for guns. Buy some damn CNC machines. This. |
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So, I can pay 509 or more for a $409 gun and get it in a few months on a waiting list after spending a bunch of time researching on line to find the few select gunstores that have a less than two year wait list (No I did not make that up. Two local shops were told they could get on a wait list by their distributor and it was a two year wait.). Others just said nope sorry. Or I can spend $275 for a for a $297 MSRP gun in the same caliber and that $275 includes three extra mags, sales tax and transfer. Does it take glock mags? Nope. Does it fold in half? Nope. Does it weigh more? Yes. Will it do everything else the KT will? Yep. Can my local gunshop have it here in a week? Yep. Sorry, I ain't paying over MSRP for a gun unless it has feature that 1)nothing else has and two) that feature (or features) is actually something I need. Additionally, at 509 the KT becomes less attractive to a lot of people. You can build an ar in 9mm for not much more money. IIRC there are also companies that make glock mag specific lowers that are only a little more cash. You still don't have the folding feature and it may weigh more, but if you run an ar rifle you have commonality of training which to me is a bigger pro than the con of not folding. For $549 you can get the centerfire system carbine that runs glock mags (not an option when I gave up on KT and went with the hi-point. Wouldn't be an option for me now as I am never the guy who buys a gun before it has been out for at least a year.). Another option in the 500-600 price range is a CCU from mectech ($300) and a used glock frame (150-200). And you can get most of those without a several month wait. So unless you are a keltec fanboy or have a need for the folding feature why wait? Quoted:
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I will repeat myself and state again that it's completely true that if you spend a few minutes researching online, looking around in the proper forums, and actually spending the effort to put out a wide net, you can indeed find even the unobtanium Keltec's for something close to MSRP. Sub2000's and PMR 30's especially, seeing as the KSG panic has largely subsided I won't even list them anymore. Most people who spend years bitching they can't find this-or-that Keltec model would ALL have one within a few months at most, and for maybe not more than $100 over MSRP, if they'd gotten on the wait list of a few carefully selected gun stores. Unobtanium ? "I didn't see it at one LGS and Cabela's" So, I can pay 509 or more for a $409 gun and get it in a few months on a waiting list after spending a bunch of time researching on line to find the few select gunstores that have a less than two year wait list (No I did not make that up. Two local shops were told they could get on a wait list by their distributor and it was a two year wait.). Others just said nope sorry. Or I can spend $275 for a for a $297 MSRP gun in the same caliber and that $275 includes three extra mags, sales tax and transfer. Does it take glock mags? Nope. Does it fold in half? Nope. Does it weigh more? Yes. Will it do everything else the KT will? Yep. Can my local gunshop have it here in a week? Yep. Sorry, I ain't paying over MSRP for a gun unless it has feature that 1)nothing else has and two) that feature (or features) is actually something I need. Additionally, at 509 the KT becomes less attractive to a lot of people. You can build an ar in 9mm for not much more money. IIRC there are also companies that make glock mag specific lowers that are only a little more cash. You still don't have the folding feature and it may weigh more, but if you run an ar rifle you have commonality of training which to me is a bigger pro than the con of not folding. For $549 you can get the centerfire system carbine that runs glock mags (not an option when I gave up on KT and went with the hi-point. Wouldn't be an option for me now as I am never the guy who buys a gun before it has been out for at least a year.). Another option in the 500-600 price range is a CCU from mectech ($300) and a used glock frame (150-200). And you can get most of those without a several month wait. So unless you are a keltec fanboy or have a need for the folding feature why wait? Yet... here you still are.
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KelTec Sub-2000 version 2.0, now with TWICE the rarity! THIS! I've been searching for one that isn't $600 for months. I JUST missed a couple here and on other boards... REALLY want a glock 9mm version. Seems like a good compliment to G19 I carry all the time... |
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THIS! I've been searching for one that isn't $600 for months. I JUST missed a couple here and on other boards... REALLY want a glock 9mm version. Seems like a good compliment to G19 I carry all the time... Quoted:
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KelTec Sub-2000 version 2.0, now with TWICE the rarity! THIS! I've been searching for one that isn't $600 for months. I JUST missed a couple here and on other boards... REALLY want a glock 9mm version. Seems like a good compliment to G19 I carry all the time... http://www.cdnnsports.com/sub2000-9mm-glk17-16-1-17.html |
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That company seems to have a.d.d. to the max. They never seem to produce that many of any weapon. Then they create a new design, and do the same thing. For some odd reason though, this last year i've seen a ton of KSG shotguns everywhere I go. I do like the 80s look of their guns though, in a strange way. I've heard the owner is a religious nut that doesn't believe in taking loans out. They only make the special models one or two batches a year. From what I've read, he finally saw the light and teamed up with a partner or other company. You know, after a decade. I scored a Gen I, S&W mag that I coverted to take CZ-75 mags. Don't like the new cheese grater type 
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meh 
What I like about my Sub2K is the simplicity and the ~$200 price tag it had when I bought it. I don't want/need all that Picatinny rail because I am NOT going to load it up with a bunch of stuff better suited on a real rifle. I also wouldn't pay what they sell for now nor what this "improved model" will likely cost. It is what it is. It shines as a lightweight, discrete , easy to carry gun for those who cannot (for whatever reason) CC a "handgun". I don't see the point in trying to make it something it will never be. |
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I will repeat myself and state again that it's completely true that if you spend a few minutes researching online, looking around in the proper forums, and actually spending the effort to put out a wide net, you can indeed find even the unobtanium Keltec's for something close to MSRP. Sub2000's and PMR 30's especially, seeing as the KSG panic has largely subsided I won't even list them anymore. Most people who spend years bitching they can't find this-or-that Keltec model would ALL have one within a few months at most, and for maybe not more than $100 over MSRP, if they'd gotten on the wait list of a few carefully selected gun stores. Unobtanium ? "I didn't see it at one LGS and Cabela's" While that is true, it is also true that they failed (and continue to fail) to capitalize on their leading edge competitive advantage. The RFB was truly innovative, and I would have bought one had they been available 5 or so years ago. Instead, I ended up buying something else with that money. Now, while it might be possible to pick up a RFB for close to MSRP, I'd much rather wait for Ken's M17S .308 done and spend my money there. PMR 30? No thanks, 22TCM/9mm fills that niche for me. KSG? Bullpup Saiga 12 is mo betta. RDB/M43? Don't make me laugh, Tavor, Aug, M17S. That's what, about $7K of income that Kel-Tec basically had in their pockets from me that they threw away? I'll bet I'm not the only gun owner that made these decisions (or something similar); multiply that by a few thousand and the numbers add up. Kellgren obviously isn't all that interested in selling his guns, and now I'm not all that interested in buying them.
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Quoted: So, it's a fantasy. Gotcha. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll stick with my Glock 22 .40 S&W Sub 2000 that rail is fucking hideous. It is functional So, it's a fantasy. Gotcha. I have one because it is a nifty little KISS gun in .40 S&W and runs off my Glock mags. Fun for the range and camping. |
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While that is true, it is also true that they failed (and continue to fail) to capitalize on their leading edge competitive advantage. The RFB was truly innovative, and I would have bought one had they been available 5 or so years ago. I got my sub 500 SN RFB when they first came out for $1400, but that was just lucky timing
Now it's got competition from Ken and Desert Tech, although they will likely be considerably pricier. |
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I see plenty of KSG's and Sub 2000's at every gun show that I go to around here. Maybe they distribute more here in FL (since they are a FL company)??
Almost bought a Sub 2000 (Glock 9mm) for $349 at the last show that I went to, but I didn't have a Glock at the time. Now that I have a 34, I might pick one up. |
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KelTec Sub-2000 version 2.0, now with TWICE the rarity! THIS! I've been searching for one that isn't $600 for months. I JUST missed a couple here and on other boards... REALLY want a glock 9mm version. Seems like a good compliment to G19 I carry all the time... http://www.cdnnsports.com/sub2000-9mm-glk17-16-1-17.html That doesn't mean they have any. My dad wanted a Sub2K and called them repeatedly for a few months and they never had them in stock even though the site showed what you linked. I actually snagged a G17 Sub2K off Gunbroker last year for just a little more than MSRP. I bid a minimum on every G17 model I saw and finally got one. It took me awhile, but I did get one. I wish the older models could use the stock and front sight on the new one. A larger butt plate and screwed on metal sight with an AR post is very appealing. |
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This all kinda reminds me of Robinson Armament. The only thing standing between that company being massively successful versus being what it is today, is Alex Robinson. While both owners are not doing what needs to be done to meet full market demand, the comparison isn't really fair. In 2011, Kel-Tec made over 14,000 rifles. Robinson Arms made 541. |
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They said their improvments made it a lot quicker to manufacture. Quoted:
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KelTec Sub-2000 version 2.0, now with TWICE the rarity! They said their improvments made it a lot quicker to manufacture. It's already put together with screws you can find at Lowes..... |
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I got my sub 500 SN RFB when they first came out for $1400, but that was just lucky timing
Now it's got competition from Ken and Desert Tech, although they will likely be considerably pricier. Quoted:
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While that is true, it is also true that they failed (and continue to fail) to capitalize on their leading edge competitive advantage. The RFB was truly innovative, and I would have bought one had they been available 5 or so years ago. I got my sub 500 SN RFB when they first came out for $1400, but that was just lucky timing
Now it's got competition from Ken and Desert Tech, although they will likely be considerably pricier. That's ok, I've got plenty of money in my Kel-Tec slush fund. 
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KelTec Sub-2000 version 2.0, now with TWICE the rarity! THIS! I've been searching for one that isn't $600 for months. I JUST missed a couple here and on other boards... REALLY want a glock 9mm version. Seems like a good compliment to G19 I carry all the time... http://www.cdnnsports.com/sub2000-9mm-glk17-16-1-17.html I wish... 
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I wish... <a href="http://s4.photobucket.com/user/easy610/media/dfc4988a-f623-4bbf-b269-39f53427ba80_zpsho2n6y4i.png.html" target="_blank">http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/easy610/dfc4988a-f623-4bbf-b269-39f53427ba80_zpsho2n6y4i.png</a> Quoted:
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KelTec Sub-2000 version 2.0, now with TWICE the rarity! THIS! I've been searching for one that isn't $600 for months. I JUST missed a couple here and on other boards... REALLY want a glock 9mm version. Seems like a good compliment to G19 I carry all the time... http://www.cdnnsports.com/sub2000-9mm-glk17-16-1-17.html I wish... <a href="http://s4.photobucket.com/user/easy610/media/dfc4988a-f623-4bbf-b269-39f53427ba80_zpsho2n6y4i.png.html" target="_blank">http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/easy610/dfc4988a-f623-4bbf-b269-39f53427ba80_zpsho2n6y4i.png</a> funny, I see a stock on it! |
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Been selling them as fast as we can get um They are heads and shoulders better than the old one very solid Have not had a chance to shoot one yet Quoted:
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Anyone get one of these? Looks good. They are heads and shoulders better than the old one very solid Have not had a chance to shoot one yet For some reason the stock assembly/buffer tube just looks to me like it would snap in half. Is it solid? |
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Been selling them as fast as we can get um They are heads and shoulders better than the old one very solid Have not had a chance to shoot one yet Quoted:
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Anyone get one of these? Looks good. They are heads and shoulders better than the old one very solid Have not had a chance to shoot one yet What's the street price on these? |
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Quoted: What's the street price on these? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anyone get one of these? Looks good. They are heads and shoulders better than the old one very solid Have not had a chance to shoot one yet What's the street price on these? $600+ for the last few auctions |
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Quoted: For some reason the stock assembly/buffer tube just looks to me like it would snap in half.
Is it solid? That's the receiver. That's not where a SUB-2000 is going to break. I've never heard of one breaking, though it's not my weapon of choice for bayonet drills. |