Federal Court Strikes Down NFA Registration on "untaxed" firearms (Page 111 of 195)
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Originally Posted By madmacs69: So you could have bought it the same way in January... ? Of course. I’m hoping to pick it up in a 4473, that is just a contingency. |
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“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By wvfarrier: Tread carefully on this road until some official instructions come down from the powers that be Instructions from the powers that be. Official Instructions have already been published by the powers that be. We dont have to wait for the losers to comment on them. |
Even though it may seem that the OP is mentally disabled, calling him a "retard" is a personal attack. -DKProf
This is bud light marketing, meets Ocean Gate engineering with Sig public relations level of quality. -RC03
This is bud light marketing, meets Ocean Gate engineering with Sig public relations level of quality. -RC03
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: So must I be a member of both GOA & TSRA to make an SBR less engraving? Or just TSRA? Originally Posted By Bishop3: Originally Posted By AK-12: Originally Posted By Bishop3: What's this about not engraving? I'm a GOA member. Not having to engrave is only applicable to plaintiffs in the Jensen case, so GOA and FPC membership don't cover you there. TSRA and FPCAC membership do. FWIW I'd be about as worried about the engraving bullshit as I am about 922(r). YMMV. So must I be a member of both GOA & TSRA to make an SBR less engraving? Or just TSRA? Just TSRA or FPCaC covers you for everything. If GOA only you can make but still need to engrave |
Even though it may seem that the OP is mentally disabled, calling him a "retard" is a personal attack. -DKProf
This is bud light marketing, meets Ocean Gate engineering with Sig public relations level of quality. -RC03
This is bud light marketing, meets Ocean Gate engineering with Sig public relations level of quality. -RC03
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ATF called Idaho gun shop and told them to not transfer silencers on 4473 https://www.instagram.com/reel/DcEHJx0BWHP/?igsh=MXR1d2VwNXQ2bW9rYQ== |
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Went thru a bunch of my guns today, looking to see what could be SBR’d with no paperwork. Pretty short list, I have dozens of SBR’s already, some not even finished yet…. So the list of ones needing chopped is pretty minimal. Damn- it sucks to be an early adopter! Started doing SBR’s in 2014. Don’t even want to do the math on how many $200 stamps I bought….at least a lot of them were FreeBR’s plus a few post Jan 2026 zero tax ones… Bummed that AOW’s were not included, guess I should just do a bunch of Form 1’s… |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Originally Posted By ShooterPatriot: Instructions from the powers that be. Official Instructions have already been published by the powers that be. We dont have to wait for the losers to comment on them. I think this has already been pre-duped. 
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I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
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Originally Posted By Cycolac: I think this has already been pre-duped. Originally Posted By Cycolac: Originally Posted By ShooterPatriot: Instructions from the powers that be. Official Instructions have already been published by the powers that be. We dont have to wait for the losers to comment on them. I think this has already been pre-duped. Staff can't be bothered to read 110 pages. |
I love a good double entendre.
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Originally Posted By tac556: Went thru a bunch of my guns today, looking to see what could be SBR’d with no paperwork. Pretty short list, I have dozens of SBR’s already, some not even finished yet…. So the list of ones needing chopped is pretty minimal. Damn- it sucks to be an early adopter! Started doing SBR’s in 2014. Don’t even want to do the math on how many $200 stamps I bought….at least a lot of them were FreeBR’s plus a few post Jan 2026 zero tax ones… Bummed that AOW’s were not included, guess I should just do a bunch of Form 1’s… Same. Everything I have any desire to SBR already is. I’m also sitting on a stack of unused form 1 lowers that were approved years ago. The only other one I have any desire to SBR in the future, paperwork isn’t the issue. Not having anyone local to cut/thread it is. |
Not everyone gets to be an astronaut, the world needs pole dancers too. ~Observer
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Originally Posted By ShooterPatriot: Instructions from the powers that be. Official Instructions have already been published by the powers that be. We dont have to wait for the losers to comment on them. This is a greatly oversimplified view. Like it or not, the ATF still holds enormous power over an FFL. And it is up to each FFL to decide whether they want to roll the dice and deliver cans on a 4473 or not. A few are taking the risk, and I applaud them. But I'm absolutely not going to condemn anyone for awaiting written direction. Just one example of the issues FFLs are considering - every firearm that comes into the dealer goes into their inventory. When it leaves their inventory, there is a entry in the "disposition" field that shows where the firearm went. For a sale, it is usually the data, name of purchaser, the purchaser's ID info, and the NTN number of the NICS return. For a title II firearm (SBR, Suppressor, etc.) it includes the Form 4 information. So, how does an FFL record the disposition of a suppressor on a 4473? Do they put the ID info and NTN in place of the Form 4 information? Nobody knows. What happens when the disposition is recorded incorrectly? 27 CFR 479, et seq, spells it out: For errors without intent: - $1,000 per erroneous entry, up to $250,000 for systemic errors - License suspension of revocation For intentional improper disposition: - Up to 5 years in prison. So, pretending this is a simple issue is really not accurate. The FFLs have to decide for themselves how to proceed and what they are willing to risk. And they have a whole lot more on the line than the purchaser does. |
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“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By ParityError: This is a greatly oversimplified view. Like it or not, the ATF still holds enormous power over an FFL. And it is up to each FFL to decide whether they want to roll the dice and deliver cans on a 4473 or not. A few are taking the risk, and I applaud them. But I'm absolutely not going to condemn anyone for awaiting written direction. Just one example of the issues FFLs are considering - every firearm that comes into the dealer goes into their inventory. When it leaves their inventory, there is a entry in the "disposition" field that shows where the firearm went. For a sale, it is usually the data, name of purchaser, the purchaser's ID info, and the NTN number of the NICS return. For a title II firearm (SBR, Suppressor, etc.) it includes the Form 4 information. So, how does an FFL record the disposition of a suppressor on a 4473? Do they put the ID info and NTN in place of the Form 4 information? Nobody knows. What happens when the disposition is recorded incorrectly? 27 CFR 479, et seq, spells it out: For errors without intent: - $1,000 per erroneous entry, up to $250,000 for systemic errors - License suspension of revocation For intentional improper disposition: - Up to 5 years in prison. So, pretending this is a simple issue is really not accurate. The FFLs have to decide for themselves how to proceed and what they are willing to risk. And they have a whole lot more on the line than the purchaser does. Originally Posted By ParityError: Originally Posted By ShooterPatriot: Instructions from the powers that be. Official Instructions have already been published by the powers that be. We dont have to wait for the losers to comment on them. This is a greatly oversimplified view. Like it or not, the ATF still holds enormous power over an FFL. And it is up to each FFL to decide whether they want to roll the dice and deliver cans on a 4473 or not. A few are taking the risk, and I applaud them. But I'm absolutely not going to condemn anyone for awaiting written direction. Just one example of the issues FFLs are considering - every firearm that comes into the dealer goes into their inventory. When it leaves their inventory, there is a entry in the "disposition" field that shows where the firearm went. For a sale, it is usually the data, name of purchaser, the purchaser's ID info, and the NTN number of the NICS return. For a title II firearm (SBR, Suppressor, etc.) it includes the Form 4 information. So, how does an FFL record the disposition of a suppressor on a 4473? Do they put the ID info and NTN in place of the Form 4 information? Nobody knows. What happens when the disposition is recorded incorrectly? 27 CFR 479, et seq, spells it out: For errors without intent: - $1,000 per erroneous entry, up to $250,000 for systemic errors - License suspension of revocation For intentional improper disposition: - Up to 5 years in prison. So, pretending this is a simple issue is really not accurate. The FFLs have to decide for themselves how to proceed and what they are willing to risk. And they have a whole lot more on the line than the purchaser does. 100% and some here think that they are making so much money it wont matter LOL |
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Just watched the ARFCOM News lawyer video. What rambling nonsense. The sponsor attorney is unaware that the consolidated Jensen v ATF & Silencer Shop v ATF ruling doesn't touch transfer of SBRs by an FFL. The GCA '68 specifically requires AG approval for FFL transfer of an SBR (18 U.S.C. 922(b)(4)). I guess commercialization has a price. |
Et quant au repos ? Le Caliphate doit être essuyé de la terre.
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Originally Posted By viator: Yes. GOA and a half a dozen others. I made 18 SBRs. I am member of plantiffs in Jensen, so I have no need to engrave them. |
Et quant au repos ? Le Caliphate doit être essuyé de la terre.
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Originally Posted By GeneralDisaray: 100% and some here think that they are making so much money it wont matter LOL Plus, for larger dealers, they have their employees and their families to consider. If my usual guy rolls the dice and comes up short, 30 or so employees and their families also suffer. Under no sane or reasonable standard is he a "cuck" for factoring that into his thought process. |
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“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By DaveJRSC: I agree that the Second Amendment arguments are strong, but I believe that there are more judges than not who would rather avoid the Second Amendment questions altogether and instead decide such a case based on administrative law. Originally Posted By DaveJRSC: Originally Posted By CleverNickname: 922(o) is not tax law, not part of the NFA, and could have been enacted even if the NFA was never a thing. If anything, 922(o) is similar to the AWB, in that they both ban guns outright instead of trying to use the fig leaf of taxation. The NFA does make it easier to determine whether a gun is transferable or not, but 922(o) wouldn't require it to function. With the AWB you had to look at model names or at serial numbers to see if a gun was shipped in a pre-ban config prior to the AWB beginning, instead of looking at a registry. Saying 922(o) is unconstitutional because the government won't let you pay a tax on a gun which is illegal for you to possess is like saying the AWB was unconstitutional because the government wouldn't let you buy a banned assault weapon and pay the Pittman Robertson excise tax on that gun sale. The power to enact those bans was not through the power to tax, they were/are through the commerce clause. The fact that they won't let you pay a tax on banned firearm is just incidental because you'd be breaking the law whether you paid the tax or not. 922(o) is unconstitutional because it violates the 2nd, and because it's an overreach of the commerce clause (like so many other things). Attacking it on taxation won't work. I mean I guess try if you want, I just think it's futile. I agree that the Second Amendment arguments are strong, but I believe that there are more judges than not who would rather avoid the Second Amendment questions altogether and instead decide such a case based on administrative law. What if they passed a law forbidding women from having more than 2 children? Would that be constitutional? Why or why not? |
Never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be. - Adm James Stockdale
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Originally Posted By ODA_564: Just watched the ARFCOM News lawyer video. What rambling nonsense. The sponsor attorney is unaware that the consolidated Jensen v ATF & Silencer Shop v ATF ruling doesn't touch transfer of SBRs by an FFL. The GCA '68 specifically requires AG approval for FFL transfer of an SBR (18 U.S.C. 922(b)(4)). I guess commercialization has a price. The GCA '68 provision is one the administration can actually fix all by itself. The AG can simply issue a written policy statement saying "The office of the AG specifically authorizes transfers of Title II firearms from licensees via a form 4473 in place of the current Form 3/4 process." Viola, that one is fixed. (They currently consider transfers on a Form 3/4 'authorized', so this is just a re-pointing of the delegation of authority.) |
Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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It's weird how people focus more on what FFLs are allowed to do as compared to what an individual plaintiff can do. I am becoming increasingly aware, some people, a lot of GD'rs in particular, are geared towards making their master happy. This became very apparent during the temporary FreeBR tax discount a few years back. Picking up my can Saturday, a regular customer at the Top Gun Range ( Houston), was offered a chance at picking up a can on just a 4473: "No thanks. I've already got too much stuff on paper at home. I need to make sure what I already have is safe." This "gun owner" struck me as a tactical timmy gear queer that got in to all these "toys" in order to fufill some "Call of Duty" fantasy. |
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Originally Posted By Dolomite: It's weird how people focus more on what FFLs are allowed to do as compared to what an individual plaintiff can do. I am becoming increasingly aware, some people, a lot of GD'rs in particular, are geared towards making their master happy. This became very apparent during the temporary FreeBR tax discount a few years back. Picking up my can Saturday, a regular customer at the Top Gun Range ( Houston), was offered a chance at picking up a can on just a 4473: "No thanks. I've already got too much stuff on paper at home. I need to make sure what I already have is safe." This "gun owner" struck me as a tactical timmy gear queer that got in to all these "toys" in order to fufill some "Call of Duty" fantasy. The virtue signaling in this post is strong… |
Not fly enough to be halal....
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Originally Posted By Dolomite: It's weird how people focus more on what FFLs are allowed to do as compared to what an individual plaintiff can do. I am becoming increasingly aware, some people, a lot of GD'rs in particular, are geared towards making their master happy. This became very apparent during the temporary FreeBR tax discount a few years back. Picking up my can Saturday, a regular customer at the Top Gun Range ( Houston), was offered a chance at picking up a can on just a 4473: "No thanks. I've already got too much stuff on paper at home. I need to make sure what I already have is safe." This "gun owner" struck me as a tactical timmy gear queer that got in to all these "toys" in order to fufill some "Call of Duty" fantasy. It is amazing how willing we in the 2A community are to tear each other down over self-created purity tests. This is a great example. This guy has made his own decision on how best to proceed with a firearm purchase, so he's a "tactical timmy gear queer", whereas if he had picked up the can on a 4473 he'd be a tier-1 operator operating operationally in the operational environment like @Dolomite. |
Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By Ohio_Man: Firstly, the 4473 is not a registration or database. Any state law calling out any sort of “federal registration” requirement for NFA items would not recognize the 4473 as meeting that requirement. It would take a red state legislature to change the law or very cool State AG to issue such a directive (and keep the blue shitbird DAs in line). People in blue or purple states that allowed NFA under the condition of federal registration would be screwed. And several states DO explicitly call out NFA registration. For example, Ohio specifically calls out NFRTR (ie: NFA) registration — meaning the item not only needs to be “compliant with NFA laws”… the item needs actually registered into the NFA database. So if ATF stops registering items into the NFRTR at the federal level because those items no longer fall under the purview of the NFA, then there’s no path to legal possession of that dangerous ordinance in Ohio. ORC 2923.17 MG, DD, SBR, SBS and Silencers are all Dangerous ordinance: ORC 2923.11 I have not read this thread at all and was just trying to learn what the hubbub is about. This sucks hearing. Sounds like a good issue to push on Vivek if he wants my vote. |
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Originally Posted By lorazepam: Maybe they took the weekend off. Maybe they are swamped as fuck, and cannot keep up with the volume of new memberships. Originally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By tbw1614: I signed with GOA on 8/13 and still have no idea what my membership number is. Some on here received an email with theirs. I only received an email for the receipt of purchase for the membership. I created my account with GOA website and under the membership tab is shows I have not purchased a membership. Kinda frustrating because i tried to buy a suppressor on Saturday but they required the GOA membership number for the 4473 paperwork and I don’t have it. Even with the email receipt they still wouldn’t make the sell. I emailed GOA and requested the membership number but I would expect a delayed response with how busy they are currently. Maybe they took the weekend off. Maybe they are swamped as fuck, and cannot keep up with the volume of new memberships. But that should be automated. It’s not like a person is going through memberships, assigning numbers, and manually writing an email to send you your number. |
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Originally Posted By ParityError: so he's a "tactical timmy gear queer", whereas if he had picked up the can on a 4473 he'd be a tier-1 operator operating operationally in the operational environment like @Dolomite. I hold people "not waiting" in a higher regard as to their stance towards the 2A. That is the essence of that particular post. The whole, flowery "tier 1 operator" stuff, is your projection. I've already been through the entire 10 years of AWB, this little bump in the road ain't shit. I could wait, for a "Monday meeting" that may never occur, or I could go and spend my money at an ffl with some balls. I hope the $1,000 I dropped at Top Gun Range, the words of gratitude and encoragement I spoke to the people that work there - I hope it sticks. My fervant wish is that this scenario is repeated by my fellow gun owners over & over again, and soon. GD: please correct me if I am wrong. |
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Originally Posted By boolzi: Atf isnt the only LE that enforces nfa. Your local city or sheriff department can, and they make nice add ons to traffic tickets. I’m not saying it will happen, but when dealing with legalities, unless there is protection for you, meaning resources of legal representation or a nice militia to come stand with you, its best to dot I’s and cross T’s. I’m tepid on this ruling in the fact that if congress doesn't act on it you cant rely on common use to prevail. Atf gives guidance, i will be buying, but i understand its not 100% forever walk in the park. A no risk plan would be to wait til congress acts. Thats a legit win. Drop silencers and sbr’s from the nfa. Its a s easy as adding the tax back and reversing this ruling. And another reason to hate our congressional representation. Greatest people in the world come election time, worst piece’s of shit come legislating time. pUHlease! Local LE doesn't, CAN'T enforce federal law. They're not empowered to. They enforce STATE law. |
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Originally Posted By Dolomite: Yes. That's correct. I hold people "not waiting" in a higher regard as to their stance towards the 2A. That is the essence of that particular post. The whole, flowery "tier 1 operator" stuff, is your projection. I've already been through the entire 10 years of AWB, this lirrle bump in the road ain't shit. Your holding them in higher regard and $12.87 will get them a cup of coffee at Starbucks. The fact that the own firearms and are advancing the "common use" argument for NFA items by owning them is worth of membership in the pro-2a community, not ridicule, IMHO*. * - of course, my opinion on this matter and the aforesaid $12.87 will net the same cup of shitty coffee at Starbucks. 
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Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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I ordered a Rhodie 6TI thru my dealer right before this went down. It has a 6-8 week lead time. The dealer contacted me and told me to hold off on coming in and getting my prints and photo done. They are pretty sure by the time it shows up we can just do a 4473. |
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Originally Posted By tac556: Went thru a bunch of my guns today, looking to see what could be SBR’d with no paperwork. Pretty short list, I have dozens of SBR’s already, some not even finished yet…. So the list of ones needing chopped is pretty minimal. Damn- it sucks to be an early adopter! Started doing SBR’s in 2014. Don’t even want to do the math on how many $200 stamps I bought….at least a lot of them were FreeBR’s plus a few post Jan 2026 zero tax ones… Bummed that AOW’s were not included, guess I should just do a bunch of Form 1’s… Same for me! I got an approved Form 1 for the last pistol I had without a stock last week. |
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Originally Posted By Kobolowsky_Tires: pUHlease! Local LE doesn't, CAN'T enforce federal law. They're not empowered to. They enforce STATE law. There are some states, like Florida, that outlaw possession of NFA items unless the possessor can present an affirmative defense that the items is owned in compliance with federal law. So while the local law enforcement isn't enforcing federal law, federal law is very much informing how they enforce state law. |
Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By Dolomite: It's weird how people focus more on what FFLs are allowed to do as compared to what an individual plaintiff can do. I am becoming increasingly aware, some people, a lot of GD'rs in particular, are geared towards making their master happy. This became very apparent during the temporary FreeBR tax discount a few years back. Picking up my can Saturday, a regular customer at the Top Gun Range ( Houston), was offered a chance at picking up a can on just a 4473: "No thanks. I've already got too much stuff on paper at home. I need to make sure what I already have is safe." This "gun owner" struck me as a tactical timmy gear queer that got in to all these "toys" in order to fufill some "Call of Duty" fantasy. |
Et quant au repos ? Le Caliphate doit être essuyé de la terre.
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Originally Posted By Dolomite: Yes. That's correct. I hold people "not waiting" in a higher regard as to their stance towards the 2A. That is the essence of that particular post. The whole, flowery "tier 1 operator" stuff, is your projection. I've already been through the entire 10 years of AWB, this little bump in the road ain't shit. I could wait, for a "Monday meeting" that may never occur, or I could go and spend my money at an ffl with some balls. I hope the $1,000 I dropped at Top Gun Range, the words of gratitude and encoragement I spoke to the people that work there - I hope it sticks. My fervant wish is that this scenario is repeated by my fellow gun owners over & over again, and soon. GD: please correct me if I am wrong. Originally Posted By Dolomite: Originally Posted By ParityError: so he's a "tactical timmy gear queer", whereas if he had picked up the can on a 4473 he'd be a tier-1 operator operating operationally in the operational environment like @Dolomite. I hold people "not waiting" in a higher regard as to their stance towards the 2A. That is the essence of that particular post. The whole, flowery "tier 1 operator" stuff, is your projection. I've already been through the entire 10 years of AWB, this little bump in the road ain't shit. I could wait, for a "Monday meeting" that may never occur, or I could go and spend my money at an ffl with some balls. I hope the $1,000 I dropped at Top Gun Range, the words of gratitude and encoragement I spoke to the people that work there - I hope it sticks. My fervant wish is that this scenario is repeated by my fellow gun owners over & over again, and soon. GD: please correct me if I am wrong. Your penis much big! |
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Originally Posted By willi3d: But that should be automated. It's not like a person is going through memberships, assigning numbers, and manually writing an email to send you your number. Originally Posted By willi3d: Originally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By tbw1614: I signed with GOA on 8/13 and still have no idea what my membership number is. Some on here received an email with theirs. I only received an email for the receipt of purchase for the membership. I created my account with GOA website and under the membership tab is shows I have not purchased a membership. Kinda frustrating because i tried to buy a suppressor on Saturday but they required the GOA membership number for the 4473 paperwork and I don't have it. Even with the email receipt they still wouldn't make the sell. I emailed GOA and requested the membership number but I would expect a delayed response with how busy they are currently. Maybe they took the weekend off. Maybe they are swamped as fuck, and cannot keep up with the volume of new memberships. But that should be automated. It's not like a person is going through memberships, assigning numbers, and manually writing an email to send you your number. I really didn't think about it until ARFCOM instituted the GOA icon (got to collect them all!). Took 2 phone calls, months apart, after my emails were ignored. Apparently administration isn't their strong point. |
Et quant au repos ? Le Caliphate doit être essuyé de la terre.
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Originally Posted By Kobolowsky_Tires: pUHlease! Local LE doesn't, CAN'T enforce federal law. They're not empowered to. They enforce STATE law. Originally Posted By Kobolowsky_Tires: Originally Posted By boolzi: Atf isnt the only LE that enforces nfa. Your local city or sheriff department can, and they make nice add ons to traffic tickets. I’m not saying it will happen, but when dealing with legalities, unless there is protection for you, meaning resources of legal representation or a nice militia to come stand with you, its best to dot I’s and cross T’s. I’m tepid on this ruling in the fact that if congress doesn't act on it you cant rely on common use to prevail. Atf gives guidance, i will be buying, but i understand its not 100% forever walk in the park. A no risk plan would be to wait til congress acts. Thats a legit win. Drop silencers and sbr’s from the nfa. Its a s easy as adding the tax back and reversing this ruling. And another reason to hate our congressional representation. Greatest people in the world come election time, worst piece’s of shit come legislating time. pUHlease! Local LE doesn't, CAN'T enforce federal law. They're not empowered to. They enforce STATE law. What if state law says the item has to be registered with NFA? |
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Originally Posted By PortaJohnPicasso: This. I'm one is the people that got a letter from the ATF about a purchase from diversified machine several years ago. Back in 93-94 in CA, I "got the letters" for a sks-d I bought at a store for $189. First, they just wanted to verify i still had it, then they asked me to register it within 30 days (or else!!!). A month or two later, i got the "final letter" (that's what it said in the header). The final letter confirmed that I had communicated that I was in posession of a sks-d, and provided the usual 3 options: sell, surrender or destroy. So to all of you maintaining that I'm posturing, trolling, whatever - I've got one thing to say: Hope you have a great day. |
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Originally Posted By ShooterPatriot: Instructions from the powers that be. Official Instructions have already been published by the powers that be. We dont have to wait for the losers to comment on them. Originally Posted By ShooterPatriot: Instructions from the powers that be. Official Instructions have already been published by the powers that be. We dont have to wait for the losers to comment on them. You realize that FFLs have regulations beyond this one NFA judgement, right? FFL's want to make sure they are compliant in everything the ATF expects from them, because this one case doesn't grant immunity from all the other rules they have to abide by. How should this be reflected in FFL books? What record keeping requirements is the ATF expecting? How do FFLs move NFA items out of their Eforms inventory if sold on a 4473? There are plenty of legal questions here that need to be answered so assuming that everything is invalid because of this one judgement is ignorant. It's not as simple as "start transferring on 4473's and everything is all good". The ATF can still comply with this judgement but have record-keeping or rule requirements that come back to bite a dealer that is being flippant with transfers right now. Originally Posted By Dolomite: Yes. That's correct. I hold people "not waiting" in a higher regard as to their stance towards the 2A. So for everyone who's trashing FFLs for waiting: why are you buying cans now on a 4473? Why didn't you just buy them illegally last month and hold those sellers in a higher regard? If selling via 4473 now is the pro-2A stance, what was your opinion a month ago? Why don't you already have dozens of unregistered suppressors and SBRs? You had to wait for a court case to give you permission so you can act like an internet tough guy? Why weren't you just doing it regardless before this case was even settled? I said it quite a few pages ago, but it's easy to be an internet tough guy when you have no skin in the game. You guys should have been defying the law long before last Thursday if you're really so rebellious. |
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FL, USA
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Originally Posted By ParityError: There are some states, like Florida, that outlaw possession of NFA items unless the possessor can present an affirmative defense that the items is owned in compliance with federal law. So while the local law enforcement isn't enforcing federal law, federal law is very much informing how they enforce state law. Originally Posted By ParityError: Originally Posted By Kobolowsky_Tires: pUHlease! Local LE doesn't, CAN'T enforce federal law. They're not empowered to. They enforce STATE law. There are some states, like Florida, that outlaw possession of NFA items unless the possessor can present an affirmative defense that the items is owned in compliance with federal law. So while the local law enforcement isn't enforcing federal law, federal law is very much informing how they enforce state law. B.S. If there is not a federal law to enforce, possibly due to the fact that there is an injunction in place, then what are they enforcing? A membership card to Jansen or GOA is your affirmative defense if Barney Fife gets on a power trip. |
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Originally Posted By Dolomite: Yep. Back in 93-94 in CA, I "got the letters" for a sks-d I bought at a store for $189. First, they just wanted to verify i still had it, then they asked me to register it within 30 days. A month or two later, i got the "final letter" (that's what it said in the header). The final letter gave the usual 3 options: sell, surrender or destroy. So to all of you maintaining that I'm posturing, trolling, whatever - I've got one thing to say: Hope you have a great day. Originally Posted By Dolomite: Originally Posted By PortaJohnPicasso: This. I'm one is the people that got a letter from the ATF about a purchase from diversified machine several years ago. First, they just wanted to verify i still had it, then they asked me to register it within 30 days. A month or two later, i got the "final letter" (that's what it said in the header). The final letter gave the usual 3 options: sell, surrender or destroy. So to all of you maintaining that I'm posturing, trolling, whatever - I've got one thing to say: Hope you have a great day. Yeah, once you realize that .gov is ready, willing and able to fuck you over, and by fuck I mean prison, not prom, you look at things a little differently. The saying "test cases are for other people" has been true for me ever since that fiasco. |
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Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: B.S. If there is not a federal law to enforce, possibly due to the fact that there is an injunction in place, then what are they enforcing? A membership card to Jansen or GOA is your affirmative defense if Barney Fife gets on a power trip. It isn't BS at all. And yes, in this case the affirmative defense would be that you are a member of a plaintiff class and thus the item is possessed in compliance with federal law. But you still have to comply with federal law to comply with the state law. |
Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By Dolomite: Yep. That's pretty much what I went through. Back in 93-94 in CA, I "got the letters" for a sks-d I bought at a store for $189. First, they just wanted to verify i still had it, then they asked me to register it within 30 days (or else!!!). A month or two later, i got the "final letter" (that's what it said in the header). The final letter confirmed that I had communicated that I was in posession of a sks-d, and provided the usual 3 options: sell, surrender or destroy. So to all of you maintaining that I'm posturing, trolling, whatever - I've got one thing to say: Hope you have a great day. Originally Posted By Dolomite: Originally Posted By PortaJohnPicasso: This. I'm one is the people that got a letter from the ATF about a purchase from diversified machine several years ago. Back in 93-94 in CA, I "got the letters" for a sks-d I bought at a store for $189. First, they just wanted to verify i still had it, then they asked me to register it within 30 days (or else!!!). A month or two later, i got the "final letter" (that's what it said in the header). The final letter confirmed that I had communicated that I was in posession of a sks-d, and provided the usual 3 options: sell, surrender or destroy. So to all of you maintaining that I'm posturing, trolling, whatever - I've got one thing to say: Hope you have a great day. So, you told them to fuck off? |
I love a good double entendre.
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Originally Posted By Dolomite: Yes. That's correct. I hold people "not waiting" in a higher regard as to their stance towards the 2A. That is the essence of that particular post. The whole, flowery "tier 1 operator" stuff, is your projection. I've already been through the entire 10 years of AWB, this little bump in the road ain't shit. I could wait, for a "Monday meeting" that may never occur, or I could go and spend my money at an ffl with some balls. I hope the $1,000 I dropped at Top Gun Range, the words of gratitude and encoragement I spoke to the people that work there - I hope it sticks. My fervant wish is that this scenario is repeated by my fellow gun owners over & over again, and soon. GD: please correct me if I am wrong. Originally Posted By Dolomite: Originally Posted By ParityError: so he's a "tactical timmy gear queer", whereas if he had picked up the can on a 4473 he'd be a tier-1 operator operating operationally in the operational environment like @Dolomite. I hold people "not waiting" in a higher regard as to their stance towards the 2A. That is the essence of that particular post. The whole, flowery "tier 1 operator" stuff, is your projection. I've already been through the entire 10 years of AWB, this little bump in the road ain't shit. I could wait, for a "Monday meeting" that may never occur, or I could go and spend my money at an ffl with some balls. I hope the $1,000 I dropped at Top Gun Range, the words of gratitude and encoragement I spoke to the people that work there - I hope it sticks. My fervant wish is that this scenario is repeated by my fellow gun owners over & over again, and soon. GD: please correct me if I am wrong. My wish is that millions of fair weather 2A advocates didn’t wait till the hard part was done to exercise their rights. Had they not waited so long, and NFA ownership numbers would have increased the entire 92 years of the NFA the same way its increased the last 10 years. The NFA could have been abolished decades ago. You’ll get absolutely no argument from me about the Freebr thing being stupid. You’ve got to admit though, it’s hilarious to see them get shit on. When their actions did more to increase SBRs to common use than millions of “I refuse to own those things and be on a list” people. |
Not everyone gets to be an astronaut, the world needs pole dancers too. ~Observer
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Originally Posted By PortaJohnPicasso: Yeah, once you realize that .gov is ready, willing and able to fuck you over, and by fuck I mean prison, not prom, you look at things a little differently. The saying "test cases are for other people" has been true for me ever since that fiasco. The Weavers didn’t even get offered prison. They got the bullet. |
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Originally Posted By graysonp: You guys should have been defying the law long before last Thursday if you're really so rebellious. just to confirm one little thing: since the morning of September 14th, 1994, there's been a cutesy American colloquilism that always gave me a chuckle, it goes - "a day without a felony is like a day without sunshine." |
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Originally Posted By KELBEAST: The Weavers didn't even get offered prison. They got the bullet. Originally Posted By KELBEAST: Originally Posted By PortaJohnPicasso: Yeah, once you realize that .gov is ready, willing and able to fuck you over, and by fuck I mean prison, not prom, you look at things a little differently. The saying "test cases are for other people" has been true for me ever since that fiasco. The Weavers didn't even get offered prison. They got the bullet. It's pathetic. People have been raided and some have died due to something as simple as a wrong address. Do you worry about that too? |
Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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Originally Posted By CZRider: How about we meet in the middle and act in minimal and antagonistic compliance with the current state of law and use every lawful tool at our disposal to push for the victory we all want? I bought a can on a 4473. I've figured out the upper limit I'm willing to risk in the event that the government goes back to their deprivation of rights under color of law, and I'll do my best to spread the word and help push the Overton window as far as I can to in the direction of restoring and protecting our rights in the meantime. Inalienable rights > laws of man. At some point we free men must assert our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You know what makes me happy? Puppies, sunsets, guns/suppressors/any firearm accessory. We must assert our second amendment right. That right alone separates free men from slaves and goddammit, I'm tired of politicians, bureaucrats, emotional moms and dimwitted idiots trying to make us into slaves by removing or rights. We must all hang together or we shall surely hang separately. |
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Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: B.S. If there is not a federal law to enforce, possibly due to the fact that there is an injunction in place, then what are they enforcing? A membership card to Jansen or GOA is your affirmative defense if Barney Fife gets on a power trip. Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: Originally Posted By ParityError: Originally Posted By Kobolowsky_Tires: pUHlease! Local LE doesn't, CAN'T enforce federal law. They're not empowered to. They enforce STATE law. There are some states, like Florida, that outlaw possession of NFA items unless the possessor can present an affirmative defense that the items is owned in compliance with federal law. So while the local law enforcement isn't enforcing federal law, federal law is very much informing how they enforce state law. B.S. If there is not a federal law to enforce, possibly due to the fact that there is an injunction in place, then what are they enforcing? A membership card to Jansen or GOA is your affirmative defense if Barney Fife gets on a power trip. The injunction only halts federal enforcement against the plaintiffs. That is considerably different from striking the entire law from the books in the aggregate. |
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Originally Posted By Dolomite: Yes. That's correct. I hold people "not waiting" in a higher regard as to their stance towards the 2A. That is the essence of that particular post. The whole, flowery "tier 1 operator" stuff, is your projection. I've already been through the entire 10 years of AWB, this little bump in the road ain't shit. I could wait, for a "Monday meeting" that may never occur, or I could go and spend my money at an ffl with some balls. I hope the $1,000 I dropped at Top Gun Range, the words of gratitude and encoragement I spoke to the people that work there - I hope it sticks. My fervant wish is that this scenario is repeated by my fellow gun owners over & over again, and soon. GD: please correct me if I am wrong. What’s your thoughts on gang bangers with Glock switches? They’re living free-er than us right now |
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Originally Posted By KELBEAST: What's your thoughts on gang bangers with Glock switches? They're living free-er than us right now Originally Posted By KELBEAST: Originally Posted By Dolomite: Yes. That's correct. I hold people "not waiting" in a higher regard as to their stance towards the 2A. That is the essence of that particular post. The whole, flowery "tier 1 operator" stuff, is your projection. I've already been through the entire 10 years of AWB, this little bump in the road ain't shit. I could wait, for a "Monday meeting" that may never occur, or I could go and spend my money at an ffl with some balls. I hope the $1,000 I dropped at Top Gun Range, the words of gratitude and encoragement I spoke to the people that work there - I hope it sticks. My fervant wish is that this scenario is repeated by my fellow gun owners over & over again, and soon. GD: please correct me if I am wrong. What's your thoughts on gang bangers with Glock switches? They're living free-er than us right now A shitload of people are rolling around cities with machine guns and there's no task force hunting them down. What does that tell you about the big bad ATF that you're so afraid of? |
Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.