I don't see the point/draw of it.  What's so great in sitting your rifle in a rest, pointing the scope/sights at the bulls eye and pulling the trigger?  Where's the skill in that?  It seems like as long as your rifle shoots straight, you can't miss.  Seems like the whole fun and skill in shooting is your ability to hold that rifle still, with the sights right on the target, and squeeze the trigger oh-so perfectly to get that perfect shot, and benchrest shooting take you completely out of it.  Heck, I even read in another post that there is some kind of hydraulic device that pulls the trigger for you, so you don't even need to do that.

Anyway, can someone explain this to me?

I've had arguments with my stepfather about this. Last time we went to the range I (and my brother) put about 150 rounds through my Bushy, plus about another 100 rounds through a couple different pistols. My stepfather put about 10 rounds through his M1A, not to mention that he is using a scope thats about a 40x at 50-100 yards!

In my opinion it just isn't practical. Like I tell him, at the end of the day he will have tighter groups than me but in the time it takes him to set up and fire one shot I can hit a dozen man sized targets COM at 100 yards. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

 Smallest possible group. That's what BR is about.

Quoted: What's so great in sitting your rifle in a rest, pointing the scope/sights at the bulls eye and pulling the trigger?  Where's the skill in that?

Where's the skill in that? Ever try it? You will quickly find out how much skill it takes. I guess snipers a shitty shooters with little skill.

Think of benchrest as the laboratory from which all things accurate come.

Quoted: Quoted: What's so great in sitting your rifle in a rest, pointing the scope/sights at the bulls eye and pulling the trigger?  Where's the skill in that?   Where's the skill in that? Ever try it? You will quickly find out how much skill it takes. I guess snipers a shitty shooters with little skill.

I've never seen a sniper carry around benchrest equipment, snipers use bipods and maybe even a small sandbag under the stock but on a benchrest rifle you can litterally step away from the rifle and it will stay dead on target. In benchrest you basically want as little effect from the shooter as possible except for actually pulling the trigger. It's far more about the accuracy of the rifle than the skill of the shooter.

Besides, you should know that there is far more to being a sniper than simply being a good shot. There are lots of people who are excellent marksmen, that doesn't make them good snipers.

Quoted: I don't see the point/draw of it.  What's so great in sitting your rifle in a rest, pointing the scope/sights at the bulls eye and pulling the trigger?  Where's the skill in that?  It seems like as long as your rifle shoots straight, you can't miss.  Seems like the whole fun and skill in shooting is your ability to hold that rifle still, with the sights right on the target, and squeeze the trigger oh-so perfectly to get that perfect shot, and benchrest shooting take you completely out of it.  Heck, I even read in another post that there is some kind of hydraulic device that pulls the trigger for you, so you don't even need to do that. Anyway, can someone explain this to me?

at long range you have to judge distance and wind and then decide how much compensation is needed.  That takes A LOT of skill.

two thousand dollar rifles with two ounce triggers.
A single dominating cartridge,the 6PPC is the norm,with reloading techniques that border on obsessive/compulsive ritualistic repetitiveness. Measuring EVERYTHING to the um-teenth degree.
Some of the best shooters out there at reading wind and mirage for the given yardage.

The club I belong to has many shooters of the sport,very interesting.I hope to become involved someday,when I can afford it.

I don't regard it highly either.

In fact I first sight in my hunting rifle on the bench and then after I got it on target then I shoot three different posistions off the bench.

Benchrest shooters are awesome marksman and realy know their equipment and wind, but I want to practise something I will use in the field.

First, www.benchrest.com

The point is to develop a firearm, ammunition, ancillary equipment, and the shooter's skill to either shoot very small groups (way, way smaller than you can hope for with a rack grade rifle and a sand bag), or to put one bullet in the very center of a very small bullseye for score (smaller than the accuracy of any rack grade rifle).  To pull this off, you must understand the rifle, the ammo, and the near environment to a far greater extent than the average shooter, including snipers; it's a mental game. There is way more than pointing your rifle at the target, and if you truly believe that, you ought to sign up for a local benchrest match in factory class Hunter rifle and give it a try.

I know of no benchrest rifles that use hydraulic triggers, but there may be some unlimited class rail guns that do; I doubt there is any advantage.  Nearly everyone is shooting triggers that break near 2 ounces, maybe less.

If you think you can shoot small groups, I know a guy that will give you $1000 for every 1/4 inch 5 shot group you shoot with your AR or other non benchrest rifle.  The catch is that you have to pay him $1000 for the groups that are larger.

There are all kinds of shooting games - plinking at bottles, IDPA,black powder skillet or axe shooting, benchrest, 4-H, NRA highpower, skeet and trap, card shoots, falling plates, and so on - most of them may not have an obvious connection to practical shooting applications, but in fact they all teach skills that are transferable to the "practical" use of firearms, such as hunting.  The problem with hunting is (unless it's shooting prairie dogs and ground squirrels) that it's hunting, not shooting!

I enjoy mixing it up a bit. First I try shooting normal, go "WTF I think my barrel is worn out". Then I benchrest a bit, hit the target and repeat the process all over.

one thing i noticed is the dang rifles for bench rest cost a gazillion dollars with all the bells and whistles.  F class shooting, now there's the bomb...i have got to try that once or twice....long range shooting's the way to go...whether from a bench or bag...hello target,,,is the bullet there yet????the skill in precision shooting is keeping up with pulse beat, breathing, blood vessels in your eyes, time of day...wind...up hill/down hill...temperture, humidity...etc...
its not just lay the gun in the rest and shoot....you watch some old kodger put five bullets in the same hole at 200 yards and from a bench,,,,that makes me get goose bumps....i got into a shit slingin contest on here for saying i could shoot 10 rounds and cloverleaf three of 'em on here at 100 yards off hand....(100 yards is sling shot range)but that was from some of those folks that like to hang toaster ovens and boom boxes off of an ar and hose down sillohette's at 25 feet and scream "yeah, thats what i'm talkin' about"...its all fun...man,,,just shoot...shoot and shoot again...try all kinds...high power,,,service rifle.  sillhouett, skeet , trap ,,,pistol, ipda....bench rest and 1000 yard ...i guarateee that when you sit down at a bench and have a shot group the size of the diameter of the bullet youre shooting you'll wet your pants....and you'll have to show it to everyone....hey dude,,,,thats 10 rounds in that one hole....

It doesn't interest me, but neither does skeet, trap, or cowboy shooting. I would just as soon watch televised golf.

I think it's sort of an intellectual exercise - it is to shooting in general as tying flies is to fishing. Or you could say it is as building drag racers is to building a nice, fast daily driver. They are focusing on a certain set of variables and eliminating others to the extent possible to see what kind of otherworldly accuracy is actually achievable. These guys have tables of bullet weights, humidity, temperature, et c., et c. that would cross my eyes. If you look at the labels on their boxes of handloads, they often include the day & time they were loaded! They keep log books with more information on their shooting than I have on my kids.

It's not my cup of tea because I am just not that meticulous, but I think it's impressive as hell.

  Where's the skill ?   Ask a sniper what the problem is.... I mean if all you have to do is to put the crosshairs on the target and  "squeeze",  it should be child's play for any of us , right ?
I'm not a BR guy but have gone to a match or two when I was looking into what area of my beloved SHOOTING sports I wanted to do next.    For them it's not about shooting because any competitive gun will shoot .125" 5 shot  groups with boring consistency in still conditions with a good load.  For those guys it's all about finding the sweetspot in the load for that rifle and then adjusting it as the temp and humidity go up and down.... reading the wind and the boil and knowing where to hold their point of aim to let the wind blow their shot into the group instead of the way I'd do it and have it get blown 2 inches out. They do that in relays that last 7 minutes... five shots.... rain, gusty conditions, letups, you name it. The best aggregate score wins. That's an average of 5, 5shot groups or 25 shots total for one yardage.  The last match I went to in Tomball,Tx had gusty winds of about 25mph back and forth across the range but the winner agged something like  .14 inches.   Un-FRIGGIN-Real !
 Most of them don't even think of their guns as any kind of a Weapon.  It more like that bowling ball you pull out when you go to the lanes or the golf club, softball bat and glove, pool cue,climbing gear, parachute.... you get the idea.  

I guess I'm sorta kinda in the bastard area of it all because I just luuuuv it when I take my  RRA varmint out and make dime sized 5 shot groups with handloads but won't bother to shoot the wolf or other crappy stuff out of it that I  luuuv just as much to use in my chrome lined carbine.   They are built for different things and it's no fun to use one for the other's purpose.  A 2 ounce, or even a 4 ounce trigger is indescribable !  That and a 45x scope too ? for what ?  They claim they can feel the takeup on the trigger and that the scope is just right.

Bottom line is that We shoot and have a ball... get a ton of pleasure out of it by making piles of brass.... and they shoot and have a ball too ... but they save the brass and reload it as much as 100 times if they are careful... and they get a ton of pleasure out of making the holes as close together as possible.
I decided not to do it because it is way too expensive for me.  not to mention them being as anal as Casey's uncle and I wouldn't be able to contain myself by Not shooting one of the windflags that looks like a daisy.

my .02 US
Rip

F-Class looks like fun to me too.
1000 yd benchrest type guns with no rules! Any optics!

Quoted: I don't see the point/draw of it.  What's so great in sitting your rifle in a rest, pointing the scope/sights at the bulls eye and pulling the trigger?  Where's the skill in that?  It seems like as long as your rifle shoots straight, you can't miss.

Alot of them think the same about pointlessly hosing targets with mil-surp ammo.

Its ALL good! Enjoy it while we can!!

5 shots @100yds
LIGHT VARMIT
Mac MacMIllan   0.009 inches   9/23/73

5 5 shot groups  Aggregate @ 100yds
Unlimited
Steve Kostanich  .1283 inches   8/10/2003

That is what Benchrest is all about.  How close together can you get those bullets in the target.

Quoted: F-Class looks like fun to me too. 1000 yd benchrest type guns with no rules! Any optics!

I shoot this in F-class:


I do better than a lot of the 'target shooter' type guys.  The last time I was out, it was storming like hell and I still shot a 158-5X in a 3-7mph variable quartering wind at 600.  They finally called it because of the lightning.

What the fuck..it keeps editing the http:// out of my code.

the skill is in the use of a quality rifle set in the hands of a very competent rifleman who has the ability to shoot the tightest group possible.

the skill possessed by these men and women go beyond normal target shooting. the breath and trigger finger control is the cream of the crop.

if you cant understand that part, then you will never be able to comprehend benchrest shooting at even the minimal percentages.

when you use a caliper to grade your target...it becomes a new game.

i have shot 3 benchrest matches will borrowed rifles and have known several people who shoot them regularly. these men are anal retentive about their guns, handloads and precision shooting.

i've been shooting different types of competitions for over 20 years and can attest that the BR shooters would outshoot 95% of all other riflemen, with any given rifles.

their fundamental shooting abilities are beyong most competitive shooters.

I think of a bench rest as a way for a new shooter to eliminate shooting variables (ones he will master over time) and to just focus on sight alignment and trigger press.  Once a new shooter gets the basics down he/she can move on to different positions.....but woe unto you who tries to introduce your wife to shooting a rifle...while she is standing/kneeling.....it will be her last trip cause she won't hit a damn thing.

Quoted: 5 shots @100yds LIGHT VARMIT Mac MacMIllan   0.009 inches   9/23/73 5 5 shot groups  Aggregate @ 100yds Unlimited Steve Kostanich  .1283 inches   8/10/2003 That is what Benchrest is all about.  How close together can you get those bullets in the target.

Wheres the skill in that?

Quoted: I think of a bench rest as a way for a new shooter to eliminate shooting variables (ones he will master over time) and to just focus on sight alignment and trigger press.  Once a new shooter gets the basics down he/she can move on to different positions.....but woe unto you who tries to introduce your wife to shooting a rifle...while she is standing/kneeling.....it will be her last trip cause she won't hit a damn thing.

Agreed

I taught my wife to shoot her new 22 marlin 60 last summer off the picnic table and a couple sand bags
at targets 30 yards away. She never shot a gun before in her 47 years and was very excited just
hitting 4" dia target. By the end of the summer she shot 12 shots in a dime size dot and had two
just outside.

My plan was to take her squirrel hunting in our woods but she didn't know if she could
shoot one of those furry little friends of the forest. Well, I got her all camo-ed out and in the first 15 min. out in the woods she shot this puny little squirrel at forty yards. She was very proud of herself
and became a squirrel hunting machine. Her new nick name is "Grandma Oakly"

She always liked the game I put in the pot and now she can enjoy her contribution too.

GM

Uhhh You must not get out much.  I shoot 800-1200 yards .50 cal.  I challenge you to say it takes no talent to shoot from a bench this far with this caliber.
You just don't have the education you need to understand.

Quoted: I don't see the point/draw of it.  What's so great in sitting your rifle in a rest, pointing the scope/sights at the bulls eye and pulling the trigger?  Where's the skill in that?  It seems like as long as your rifle shoots straight, you can't miss.  Seems like the whole fun and skill in shooting is your ability to hold that rifle still, with the sights right on the target, and squeeze the trigger oh-so perfectly to get that perfect shot, and benchrest shooting take you completely out of it.  Heck, I even read in another post that there is some kind of hydraulic device that pulls the trigger for you, so you don't even need to do that. Anyway, can someone explain this to me?

It's rifle shooting/accuracy for the mature shooter.   Don't worry about it.  You'll get there one day.  Maybe --  keep the egoin check and an elder will show up one day to teach you the art/science of accurate rifle shooting....when you're ready.  

Until then, no worries.  Think about it as professional golf for shooters.

Quoted: Quoted: 5 shots @100yds LIGHT VARMIT Mac MacMIllan   0.009 inches   9/23/73 5 5 shot groups  Aggregate @ 100yds Unlimited Steve Kostanich  .1283 inches   8/10/2003 That is what Benchrest is all about.  How close together can you get those bullets in the target. Wheres the skill in that?

Apparently, you haven't tried it, LOL
That last agg was 25 shots with a center to center group, smaller than the dia of a BB (.177)
How long have you been shooting rifle?
Borg

Quoted: Think of benchrest as the laboratory from which all things accurate come.

a lot to be said here in a few words. Much of whhat we have has come from the BR community.

Well first, I didn't mean to make it seem like I thought there was something wrong with shooting bench rest, if that's what you enjoy, more power to you, just not my thing.  I think I understand a little better where the skill comes in with that.  Sounds like it involves skill in a lot of other things and a little less with the trigger control (how much do you need witha 2 ounce trigger) and rifle handling (it just sits on a bench).  I believe someone mentioned reading the wind, understanding your rifle and the load in your cartridges to the utmost degree, and things like that.  Does sounds very interesting, but definitely not my cup of tea.  I think I'd like a more action oriented shooting match, IDPA or something of that nature.

A couple people mentioned snipers, but I wouldn't put a sniper in the same category, they use bipods and have to hit moving targets (sometimes).  They also aren't looking for accuracy down to 1/4", they just need to hit in a head sized area, or that special area of the chest.  Although I'm sure the reading of the wind and understanding of the equipment is just as important to them.

Thanks for all the input guys, and to those of you who are BR shooters, good luck with it!  

Actually, a sniper had better be able to shoot a 1/4" especially when there's a hostage involved, plus most snipers WILL NOT take a moving shot if they can help it, they don't want to give away their advantage of suprise/location.
The NYPD has serveral single 50's they use for sniping from highrise to highrise. From what I heard, they are capable of 1/2 min acc. in the high wind.  Where do you suppose they learned that?
'Borg

Obviously you know more about sniping than I do We-rborg.  My point in say that wasn't as much about the accuracy, but that the conditions a sniper is shooting in are going to be a little different than a benchrest shooter.   I would expect (note: these are assumptions on my part, if incorrect, please correect me) that they are shooting from a bi-pod, laying/sitting where ever they can get the bast shot and still remain somewhat concealed.  They don't have their gun in something that's going to hold it right on target for them, and they don't have a nice little bench and seat to sit on while they do it.  In my last post I was actually referring more to military snipers than LE agency.  I doubt military snipers have to deal with hostage situations quite as often.

Quoted: I don't see the point/draw of it.  What's so great in sitting your rifle in a rest, pointing the scope/sights at the bulls eye and pulling the trigger?  Where's the skill in that?  It seems like as long as your rifle shoots straight, you can't miss.  Seems like the whole fun and skill in shooting is your ability to hold that rifle still, with the sights right on the target, and squeeze the trigger oh-so perfectly to get that perfect shot, and benchrest shooting take you completely out of it.  Heck, I even read in another post that there is some kind of hydraulic device that pulls the trigger for you, so you don't even need to do that. Anyway, can someone explain this to me?

Well, real benchrester do require skill, primarly with respect to wind, since when 1/4" groups are crap even wind at 100 yards hurts. That said, I have NO interest in benchrest myself, but I find that serious benchresters had figured out the answers to my questions regarding reloading, accurate ammo, gun cleaning, etc.

What I find silly is all the general shooters/hunters/etc., who only seem to shoot off the bench. They are not benchrest competators, yet they sight in and then do most of their shooting off the bench? Many have poor bench tecnique on top of that.

I have also noted that most snipers seem to shoot off of bags or bipods. My guess is that they won't do as well as Highpower shooters with comparable levels of training/experience.

I shoot from a bench ocasionally but prefer the "real life" situation of shooting offhand.

When I'm in the woods hunting I'm rarely gonna have a rest or time to deploy my "shooting stick".

I have nothing against benchrest shooters, but at the range by my house there's a group of benchrest shooters I refer to as "The Reloading Snobs" that are rude and waste time chatting about their newest load to the snob next to them when they SHOULD be doing things like changing their targets. The longest day I EVER had at the range was on a Friday, which is Reloading Snob day. I spent 90% of my time waiting for those rude fuckers to pay attention, get off their asses and change their targets WHEN EVERYONE ELSE DID.

Instead, they were bullshitting and when they realized that just about eveyone else was ON THEIR WAY BACK form changing their targets they go "OOPS!" and walk their way out to the 200yd berm to change theirs.

While everyone that WAS paying attention waited...........

Quoted: Well, real benchrester do require skill, primarly with respect to wind, since when 1/4" groups are crap even wind at 100 yards hurts. That said, I have NO interest in benchrest myself, but I find that serious benchresters had figured out the answers to my questions regarding reloading, accurate ammo, gun cleaning, etc. What I find silly is all the general shooters/hunters/etc., who only seem to shoot off the bench. They are not benchrest competators, yet they sight in and then do most of their shooting off the bench? Many have poor bench tecnique on top of that. I have also noted that most snipers seem to shoot off of bags or bipods. My guess is that they won't do as well as Highpower shooters with comparable levels of training/experience.

I've never had any real instruction in rifle shooting so I just kinda winged it.  I do most of my shooting from the bench because that's about all the range allows.  I shoot standing, but I can't hit dick like that beyond 50 yards and I can't imagine where I would want to employ a weapon long distance standing upright when I could fire prone or kneeling.  I just really have little access to good instruction so I muddle through on my own.    

When I can shoot as good as I think I should be able to from the bench then I'll start working on positions, but I have no idea where I'll be able to do that.  All the local ranges won't allow prone or kneeling.  A whole nother "why" issue.

Yeah, I don't go to regular ranges to shoot too often, usually just the woods at my grandparents house right now.  I'm sure once I have a regular range to go to I'll use the bench to get sighted in.  I see you guys point though, it does take some skill, just doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in right now, maybe sometime though.

I guess I'm more into more practical shooting styles right now.  Offhand, kneeling, sometimes braced against a tree.  Haven't done prone, too many briars, trees, and that kind of stuff in the way out there.  Don't think I have any rifles that would do well with benchrest anyway, so I'll stick to plinking and stuff.

Quoted: so I'll stick to plinking and stuff.

Plinking IS fun. Any shooting is fun. Try 'em all..
Actully, I just do it to smell the powder burn.
Borg

BR is shooting reduced to a science...

Accuracy  improving rifle mods DO cross over to less stationary disciplines...

Scoffing at it is no different than a NRA hi-power guy rolling his eyes at your latest 14.5" pencil-barrel plus FFH M-4 clone., 'cause it's not a 20" A2...

Quoted: Think of benchrest as the laboratory from which all things accurate come.

Exactly right!

Fundamentals of shooting are best learned slow fire.

My dad's advice when I was young.
"It only takes one round to put the target down.  You can't miss fast enough."

Advanced techniques should only become part of your regimen after sufficiently mastering the fundamentals.

Quoted: BR is shooting reduced to a science... Accuracy  improving rifle mods DO cross over to less stationary disciplines... Scoffing at it is no different than a NRA hi-power guy rolling his eyes at your latest 14.5" pencil-barrel plus FFH M-4 clone., 'cause it's not a 20" A2...

LOL Generally, you won't see a HP shooter doing that, as he may have one 'xactly like that at home. Mine has a slab side upper w/ a pencil 16" BbL, 6 pos stock and weighs in at 5 lb exact. Most of the HP  I know also plink a lot. NO ONE SHOULD SCOFF AT ANY TYPE OF SHOOTING< THAT'S WHY WE"RE IN THE TROUBLE WE'RE IN WITH THE LAWS.
Borg

well guys, consider me educated!  heh, thanks a lot for all the input

Quoted: I've never had any real instruction in rifle shooting so I just kinda winged it.  I do most of my shooting from the bench because that's about all the range allows.  I shoot standing, but I can't hit dick like that beyond 50 yards and I can't imagine where I would want to employ a weapon long distance standing upright when I could fire prone or kneeling.  I just really have little access to good instruction so I muddle through on my own.     When I can shoot as good as I think I should be able to from the bench then I'll start working on positions, but I have no idea where I'll be able to do that.  All the local ranges won't allow prone or kneeling.  A whole nother "why" issue.

Don't you have any ranges nearby that have Highpower?

If you do have any, I suggest you go right on down and start compeating.

I mostly shoot in reduced Palma myself (all prone slow fire), but accross the course Highpower is great (standing slowfire, sitting rapid, prone rapid, prone slowfire).

Quoted: Yeah, I don't go to regular ranges to shoot too often, usually just the woods at my grandparents house right now.  I'm sure once I have a regular range to go to I'll use the bench to get sighted in.  I see you guys point though, it does take some skill, just doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in right now, maybe sometime though.

Don't sight in from the bench unless you plan on taking your important shots from the bench!

I usually sight in for 200 yard offhand from offhand. For prone I sight in from prone. How you hold the rifle changes the rifles zero. That is even true when the rifle is free floated (it is even more true if it isn't).

That is one of the reasons I don't do bench shooting anymore. The only purpose to it would be for testing ammo. I figure to test ammo, I'll fire prone and get some good practice. If I can't tell the difference from prone, I don't care!

Now, I realize that bench rest can be difficult; and I appreciate its value in determining ammo and barrel performance, correct cleaning technique, and so on. But I'm interested in becoming a good practical shot. I'm a slefish bastard, and I'm more than happy to learn what serious benchrest competator's have to say about such things, as well as top Highpower types.

Actually, one learning value of benchrest I can see is learning the wind. You also learn that in Highpower from prone, but until you shoot well enough it is hard to get a hang of the wind. In a long range benchrest, you would probably learn the wind more quickly since you have more control of the other variables starting out.

Quoted: well guys, consider me educated!  heh, thanks a lot for all the input

Just let us know when it's time for your next beat down.

Quoted: Quoted: well guys, consider me educated!  heh, thanks a lot for all the input Just let us know when it's time for your next beat down.

Haha, yeah, that's pretty much how it went though.  That's ok, i know it was a thorough beat down administered with love  

DonS gave the best explanation of what I'm trying for right now though, "practical shooting"

Some people don't see the point in shooting military style weapopns.


SGatr15

Start training now for Dave Lauck's International Tactical Rifleman's Championship next spring and measure yourself.
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