Posted: 8/23/2011 6:38:10 AM EDT
|
Why Amazon Can't Make A Kindle In the USA
by Steve Denning Decades of outsourcing manufacturing have left US industry without the means to invent the next generation of high-tech products that are key to rebuilding its economy, as noted by Garry Pisano and Willy Shih in a classic article Thus in “Restoring American Competitiveness” (Harvard Business Review, July-August 2009)
The US has lost or is on the verge of losing its ability to develop and manufacture a slew of high-tech products. Amazon’s Kindle 2 couldn’t be made in the US, even if Amazon wanted to:
|
|
There were reasons for the outsourcing and those same reasons will keep them from coming back.
The cost of EPA regulations, The cost of OSHA regulations, The cost of Workman’s Compensation Insurance, The cost of American’s with Disabilities act, The cost of Family Leave act, The cost of Affirmative Action, The cost of that part of Social Security paid by employers (FICA), The cost of property taxes on facilities The cost of taxes on corporate earnings The cost of inventory taxes The cost of Green energy The cost of employee medical insurance The cost of retirement programs The cost of insurance on facilities and on, and on, and on. Add the high cost of union wages and work rules on to this and it just no longer works. America has shot itself in the foot with laws, taxes, rules, regulations and unions and there is no way to turn it around |
|
Quoted:
It's bad , but it isn't over yet. I still believe in America and Americans. It can all be brought back with the right policies. Not when we take our 'best & brightest' and send them to law school or off to MBA-land. Companies that used to be in the US, producing electronics components were wreckecd by outsourcing & M&A madness over the past 40 years. I've watched it happen in front of my eyes. Front row seat. The electronics firms left here (with a few exceptions) are part of foreign firms, especially electronic components. We've given up getting US suppliers to quote on tooling, they are 5X higher than overseas. Would love to, but we would price ourselves out of the market. More devastating is the knowledge base that is gone. That can't be replaced. When I started back in Engineering (way back in the dim time) there were older guys around who spent their life at a company - they could tell you everything about why things were done a certain way. And they shared that knowledge as their predecessors had with them. Now the old guys get put out to pasture for 'cost control' & 'enhancing shareholder value' or some such crap. Instead we have young kids who mean well, but have no idea why anything is done the way it is. It's a massive train wreck. 
|
|
Quoted:
Bullshit. They could make all that here. Bottom line is it's cheaper to do it overseas. Where I work our US labor rate (union) is $31.00/hr. Our Mexico facility: $4.00/hr. Do the math. They could, but they wouldn't make any money OR your cost of living would be SEVERELY affected (if this was done on a macro level...on a micro level, you just wouldn't buy it and the comapny in question would go out of business)' So you have to ask yourself if you believe in economic and personal freedom, or just personal freedom (although that is simplified since they are intertwined). |
|
Quoted:
Bullshit. They could make all that here. Bottom line is it's cheaper to do it overseas. Where I work our US labor rate (union) is $31.00/hr. Our Mexico facility: $4.00/hr. Do the math. No actually they can't. The facilities don't exist anymore. It would take several years and billions of dollars to put the infrastructure back in place. |
|
Engineers, like doctors, do our jobs because we were born to do it. I find myself with no choice - I cannot stand to see a technical problem remain unsolved.
There will always be engineers, just like there will always be doctors, and soldiers, and firefighters, and everyone else who serves society. Two caveats: 1) The quality of those people largely depends on the quality of our training institutions and upon a robust marketplace by which to encourage competition 2) From a governmental standpoint, you cannot buy progress, but you CAN buy laziness. People won't leave if you put too many restrictions in their way. They will simply stop working. The "job" will leave, but the person and their abilities will remain. Everyone has their own breaking point as to when that will happen. But for professionals, generally speaking, it's pretty high and we can put up with a lot of bullshit. That doesn't give the government an excuse to give us more, mind you. I'm just saying that we have a relatively high tolerance. |
|
I am in manufacturing and tour factories all the time.
We can not make products like the Kindle or Iphone and no chance in hell of it. As much as I think I know a lot about mfg, I look at some of the products coming from Asia and have no idea how they are making them. We are losing our edge in engineering and have already lost the edge to capacity big time. I see major constraints big time. Add to that I believe 100% the following. Unless we can get a President with some serious balls its just going to get worse, much worse. MFG(thats manufacturing for you people not in it) is a core part of any economy, without it your pretty much fucked. There were reasons for the outsourcing and those same reasons will keep them from coming back.
The cost of EPA regulations, The cost of OSHA regulations, The cost of Workman’s Compensation Insurance, The cost of American’s with Disabilities act, The cost of Family Leave act, The cost of Affirmative Action, The cost of that part of Social Security paid by employers (FICA), The cost of property taxes on facilities The cost of taxes on corporate earnings The cost of inventory taxes The cost of Green energy The cost of employee medical insurance The cost of retirement programs The cost of insurance on facilities and on, and on, and on. Add the high cost of union wages and work rules on to this and it just no longer works. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bullshit. They could make all that here. Bottom line is it's cheaper to do it overseas. Where I work our US labor rate (union) is $31.00/hr. Our Mexico facility: $4.00/hr. Do the math. No actually they can't. The facilities don't exist anymore. It would take several years and billions of dollars to put the infrastructure back in place. This is so true. Post-WWII there were a ton of new factories built to replace ones worn out from the war and to expand to serve the growing economy. When the EPA got turned loose, most of those factories were shut down, as bringing them up to standards was more expensive than the companies could bear. Any asbestos or PCB's and they had to be demolished, and becaome brownfields. New consturction was prohibitively expensive (thanks to regs & unions) so the companies went to places where the facilities would be economically viable. Here's one example: Once the World's largest glass factory. 
At one time, 6,800 people lived in Ford City and 4,400 people worked at the PPG Industries plant along the Allegheny River. There was a time when PPG handed out job applications at high school graduations, guaranteeing nearly everyone a job.
Ford City began its decline in the 1960s. In 1955, 3,211 people worked at the plant. By 1961, the total was down to 1,957, taking payroll from $18 million to $13 million in that six-year span. An attempt to modernize the plant in 1962 fell flat with labor officials, who did not want to agree to a 25 percent reduction in their work force and thus kept PPG from introducing a cheaper glass-making procedure in Ford City. It built a new plant in Cumberland, Md., instead. After that, the bottom dropped out. Slowly, PPG began siphoning workers from the plant. By 1993, when the plant closed for good, PPG employed only 360 people. But wait, look att the replacement plant! PPG Works No. 7 
1953 Construction of the PPG Works No. 7 begins.
1956-1981 Plate glass manufacturing is conducted at PPG Works No. 7. 1981 PPG Works No. 7 operates as a 1992 plate glass research and development facility. All plant operations ceased in 1992. 
Thanks MD dept of the Environment As a final insult, a PPG plant about 50 miles north of there lost the bid for World Trade Center glass to a Chinese firm. Mfg in this country is fooked. |
|
Quoted:
Bullshit. They could make all that here. Bottom line is it's cheaper to do it overseas. Where I work our US labor rate (union) is $31.00/hr. Our Mexico facility: $4.00/hr. Do the math. This. They still have the manufacturing here to make it happen. The question is why build it here and make 20% profit when you can build it overseas and make 50% profit? |
|
Quoted:
I am in manufacturing and tour factories all the time. We can not make products like the Kindle or Iphone and no chance in hell of it. As much as I think I know a lot about mfg, I look at some of the products coming from Asia and have no idea how they are making them. We are losing our edge in engineering and have already lost the edge to capacity big time. I see major constraints big time. Add to that I believe 100% the following. Unless we can get a President with some serious balls its just going to get worse, much worse. MFG(thats manufacturing for you people not in it) is a core part of any economy, without it your pretty much fucked. There were reasons for the outsourcing and those same reasons will keep them from coming back.
The cost of EPA regulations, The cost of OSHA regulations, The cost of Workman’s Compensation Insurance, The cost of American’s with Disabilities act, The cost of Family Leave act, The cost of Affirmative Action, The cost of that part of Social Security paid by employers (FICA), The cost of property taxes on facilities The cost of taxes on corporate earnings The cost of inventory taxes The cost of Green energy The cost of employee medical insurance The cost of retirement programs The cost of insurance on facilities and on, and on, and on. Add the high cost of union wages and work rules on to this and it just no longer works. We're screwed. We have been whipped by commies by the use of capitalism. GE invested in Chinese manufacturing of the CFLs right after they shut down their GE light bulb factories in the US and just before the Chinese had their Congressmen pass the federal requirements for CFLs. Manufacturing in the US is done. The Chinese owned legislators in Congress will see to that just as quick as they can. |
|
I worked for a company for over 10 years and they had a reputation for outstanding engineering development. Now, they've moved all new development to Europe.
I keep hearing in the industry that there will be a shortage of engineers in the next decade or two but I don't see it. |
|
I took an ethics course for my CPA license. It talked about keeping client confidentiality when outsourcing tax preparation to prep centers in India. When you go to one of the big 6 or big 4 accounting firms, they actually take all your tax info and electronically scan it to India where a bunch of Indians trained in American tax law imput the raw data of your returns.
The ethics said if you made inqueries and hired reputable people, well then, it was fine and dandy. |
|
Quoted:
I don't buy this (at least in the way the author is trying to sell it). The author makes some very compelling arguments, but he does gloss over the impact of increased business costs domestically. Otherwise I am inclined to agree with the author. Cost accounting has been and currently is the name of the game. Problem is, it doesn't acount for value-added concepts based on future developments. It is a "right here, right now" cost management tool. Outsourcing production (hardware or software) can and will save a company production costs. Company does away with production infrastructure or sends it overseas. Company becomes beholden to overseas production for development. Overseas company gains enough technical data that they revamp the line, rebadge it, and retail it as a competitor. Now the domestic company has little to no production capability, an outdated product, and no ability to release a better product. |
|
And the Obama administration wants to add a few more nails into America's industrial and economic coffin.
Duke energy has applied for a 20% increase in electrical rates for most of Indiana due to the cost of last minutes upgrades to it's new Coal Fired generating plant. Those upgrades were necessary to be in compliance with "new" EPA rules. If you are running any business that is just barely surviving a 20% bump up in your electric bill will put you out of business. |
|
Quoted:
I worked for a company for over 10 years and they had a reputation for outstanding engineering development. Now, they've moved all new development to Europe. I keep hearing in the industry that there will be a shortage of engineers in the next decade or two but I don't see it. A lot of Engineers have headed for Texas, as many did for Cali in the 70's - 90's, the rest of the country is moribund. Couple of pockets with openings - DC with consultants for everything and Engineers needed to dream up more crap to waste money on. But the heart & soul of the country - the once hallowed halls of Engineering greatness, are shot to hell. Steel, chemicals, automotive, they all had world-class R&D centers alongside mfg. Now the tech is licensed from elsewhere (Germany a lot, other countries to a lesser degree) and the production is anywhere the EPA & unions aren't. Look at most any city with a good university and there is probably a once-great R&D center that has now been turned into an industrial park / business incubator / university research lab - none of which generates anything close to the intellectual capital once created there. It's all 'feel-good look at all the jobs we are creating grant money' crap from state & federal politicians. |
|
Quoted: I am in manufacturing and tour factories all the time. We can not make products like the Kindle or Iphone and no chance in hell of it. As much as I think I know a lot about mfg, I look at some of the products coming from Asia and have no idea how they are making them. We are losing our edge in engineering and have already lost the edge to capacity big time. I see major constraints big time. Add to that I believe 100% the following. Unless we can get a President with some serious balls its just going to get worse, much worse. MFG(thats manufacturing for you people not in it) is a core part of any economy, without it your pretty much fucked. There were reasons for the outsourcing and those same reasons will keep them from coming back. The cost of EPA regulations, The cost of OSHA regulations, The cost of Workman’s Compensation Insurance, The cost of American’s with Disabilities act, The cost of Family Leave act, The cost of Affirmative Action, The cost of that part of Social Security paid by employers (FICA), The cost of property taxes on facilities The cost of taxes on corporate earnings The cost of inventory taxes The cost of Green energy The cost of employee medical insurance The cost of retirement programs The cost of insurance on facilities and on, and on, and on. Add the high cost of union wages and work rules on to this and it just no longer works. I agree completely... 100%. On all accounts - including the fact that we're pretty well FUCKED too.  |
|
Quoted: And the Obama administration wants to add a few more nails into America's industrial and economic coffin. Duke energy has applied for a 20% increase in electrical rates for most of Indiana due to the cost of last minutes upgrades to it's new Coal Fired generating plant. Those upgrades were necessary to be in compliance with "new" EPA rules. If you are running any business that is just barely surviving a 20% bump up in your electric bill will put you out of business. I was just in a meeting with the SC VP of Duke who said point blank also that the bulk of the 20% was for the new regs as well.  |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bullshit. They could make all that here. Bottom line is it's cheaper to do it overseas. Where I work our US labor rate (union) is $31.00/hr. Our Mexico facility: $4.00/hr. Do the math. No actually they can't. The facilities don't exist anymore. It would take several years and billions of dollars to put the infrastructure back in place. It would take the will to do it and money. The asians are not better at construction than we are, their governments just make decisions & follow through on the plan. The trend to outsource engineering oversea is only picking up steam. If you think it's bad here now, just wait. 
|
|
Quoted:
There were reasons for the outsourcing and those same reasons will keep them from coming back. The cost of EPA regulations, The cost of OSHA regulations, The cost of Workman’s Compensation Insurance, The cost of American’s with Disabilities act, The cost of Family Leave act, The cost of Affirmative Action, The cost of that part of Social Security paid by employers (FICA), The cost of property taxes on facilities The cost of taxes on corporate earnings The cost of inventory taxes The cost of Green energy The cost of employee medical insurance The cost of retirement programs The cost of insurance on facilities and on, and on, and on. Add the high cost of union wages and work rules on to this and it just no longer works. America has shot itself in the foot with laws, taxes, rules, regulations and unions and there is no way to turn it around Well stated. |
|
Quoted:
I am in manufacturing and tour factories all the time. We can not make products like the Kindle or Iphone and no chance in hell of it. As much as I think I know a lot about mfg, I look at some of the products coming from Asia and have no idea how they are making them. We are losing our edge in engineering and have already lost the edge to capacity big time. I see major constraints big time. Add to that I believe 100% the following. Unless we can get a President with some serious balls its just going to get worse, much worse. MFG(thats manufacturing for you people not in it) is a core part of any economy, without it your pretty much fucked. There were reasons for the outsourcing and those same reasons will keep them from coming back.
The cost of EPA regulations, The cost of OSHA regulations, The cost of Workman’s Compensation Insurance, The cost of American’s with Disabilities act, The cost of Family Leave act, The cost of Affirmative Action, The cost of that part of Social Security paid by employers (FICA), The cost of property taxes on facilities The cost of taxes on corporate earnings The cost of inventory taxes The cost of Green energy The cost of employee medical insurance The cost of retirement programs The cost of insurance on facilities and on, and on, and on. Add the high cost of union wages and work rules on to this and it just no longer works. Those products are designed in the US. We still have the best engineers & industrial designers in the world. The factories are often captive factories that do what they are told [and smart companies do not tell them everything they need to know]. If our government would make it a priority to build factories here, and ensure manufacturers could compete then industry would return. If they insist on regulating and making it difficult to compete domestically the product companies have no choice but to go elsewhere. <––- Owns a product development firm and has worked with dozens of Far East factories. |
|
Look, The regulations and high taxes and high labor costs are part of the problem, the industrial facilities/base not existing anymore is an even bigger problem. But, the main problem is that our economic implosion is "engineered".
Our leader's goal is to implode and vertically align the our economy under a global corporate government. You see, the knees have to be knocked out from under us to bring us down to a third world equality with the rest of the world, easier to control the serfs that way. To a lesser, slower extent, this has been happening over the last several administrations as well. The name calling of conspiracy theorist and nut case will surely ensue, but its time to quit acting like blind little babies and wake up to reality. The sooner we do, the sooner we (might) be able to stop the gutting of our nation. Reversing and rebuilding will take generations, if even possible. |
|
Quoted:
Look, The regulations and high taxes and high labor costs are part of the problem, the industrial facilities/base not existing anymore is an even bigger problem. But, the main problem is that our economic implosion is "engineered". Our leader's goal is to implode and vertically align the our economy under a global corporate government. You see, the knees have to be knocked out from under us to bring us down to a third world equality with the rest of the world, easier to control the serfs that way. To a lesser, slower extent, this has been happening over the last several administrations as well. The name calling of conspiracy theorist and nut case will surely ensue, but its time to quit acting like blind little babies and wake up to reality. The sooner we do, the sooner we (might) be able to stop the gutting of our nation. Reversing and rebuilding will take generations, if even possible. Sounds like the reversing and rebuilding will entail dragging some of the roaches who are responsible for engineering this downfall into the light and disempowering them or eradicating them. |
|
Quoted:
Why Amazon Can't Make A Kindle In the USA by Steve Denning Decades of outsourcing manufacturing have left US industry without the means to invent the next generation of high-tech products that are key to rebuilding its economy, as noted by Garry Pisano and Willy Shih in a classic article Thus in “Restoring American Competitiveness” (Harvard Business Review, July-August 2009)
The US has lost or is on the verge of losing its ability to develop and manufacture a slew of high-tech products. Amazon’s Kindle 2 couldn’t be made in the US, even if Amazon wanted to:
I'm a mechanical engineer who has worked in high volume manufacturing, low volume manufacturing, product design, patenting and entrepreneurship. There is indeed a serious problem. We need to stop telling all of our high school students that they have to go to college, we need to stop propping up students who major in art history and then do nothing with it, and we need to start teaching kids useful trades and skills. That said, we have some of the best design engineers in the world here. There's a reason that the best technologies in the world tend to be American designs manufactured elsewhere. We need to use that base of knowledge to design systems that help us compete in the face of a global economy in manufacturing, and we need to be turning *some* of our kids into the next generation of engineers who will do so. The average age at work in my industry is in its early 50's. I'm an optimist, and I think we can be better for it if we put our noses to the grindstone and do a good job of making the next generation of Americans better than the one before it. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: It's bad , but it isn't over yet. I still believe in America and Americans. It can all be brought back with the right policies. Not when we take our 'best & brightest' and send them to law school or off to MBA-land. Companies that used to be in the US, producing electronics components were wreckecd by outsourcing & M&A madness over the past 40 years. I've watched it happen in front of my eyes. Front row seat. The electronics firms left here (with a few exceptions) are part of foreign firms, especially electronic components. We've given up getting US suppliers to quote on tooling, they are 5X higher than overseas. Would love to, but we would price ourselves out of the market. More devastating is the knowledge base that is gone. That can't be replaced. When I started back in Engineering (way back in the dim time) there were older guys around who spent their life at a company - they could tell you everything about why things were done a certain way. And they shared that knowledge as their predecessors had with them. Now the old guys get put out to pasture for 'cost control' & 'enhancing shareholder value' or some such crap. Instead we have young kids who mean well, but have no idea why anything is done the way it is. It's a massive train wreck. But I'm a people person! |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Look, The regulations and high taxes and high labor costs are part of the problem, the industrial facilities/base not existing anymore is an even bigger problem. But, the main problem is that our economic implosion is "engineered". Our leader's goal is to implode and vertically align the our economy under a global corporate government. You see, the knees have to be knocked out from under us to bring us down to a third world equality with the rest of the world, easier to control the serfs that way. To a lesser, slower extent, this has been happening over the last several administrations as well. The name calling of conspiracy theorist and nut case will surely ensue, but its time to quit acting like blind little babies and wake up to reality. The sooner we do, the sooner we (might) be able to stop the gutting of our nation. Reversing and rebuilding will take generations, if even possible. Sounds like the reversing and rebuilding will entail dragging some of the roaches who are responsible for engineering this downfall into the light and disempowering them or eradicating them. That would be a very long list, and very hard to compile simply because we only see the political sock puppets; the puppet masters are usually hidden behind the scenery. I still believe in the American working man and American ingenuity to overcome adversity and succeed and excel in most any endeavor. Unfortuantely, we have enemies within allied with enemies without working behind the scenes. Actually, I take that back, they are so emboldened that there is no hiding the gutting of America anymore... As an example; Obumers "job czar"; the head of GE (immelt I think his name is) just moved GE's last big imaging division to China! GM taking their "bailout" loot to move factories to China and Brazil, ect ect, on and on and on.... |
|
Quoted:
I'm a mechanical engineer who has worked in high volume manufacturing, low volume manufacturing, product design, patenting and entrepreneurship. There is indeed a serious problem. We need to stop telling all of our high school students that they have to go to college, we need to stop propping up students who major in art history and then do nothing with it, and we need to start teaching kids useful trades and skills.... Our educational system is killing this country. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: I'm a mechanical engineer who has worked in high volume manufacturing, low volume manufacturing, product design, patenting and entrepreneurship. There is indeed a serious problem. We need to stop telling all of our high school students that they have to go to college, we need to stop propping up students who major in art history and then do nothing with it, and we need to start teaching kids useful trades and skills.... Our educational system is killing this country. Why thats racist bigoted homophobic right wing religious fanatic talk. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm a mechanical engineer who has worked in high volume manufacturing, low volume manufacturing, product design, patenting and entrepreneurship. There is indeed a serious problem. We need to stop telling all of our high school students that they have to go to college, we need to stop propping up students who major in art history and then do nothing with it, and we need to start teaching kids useful trades and skills.... Our educational system is killing this country. We would have to start by telling them that their self esteem is only useful if it is based on accomplishments, not the the desire to feel good. |
|
Yes, I agree with most of what he's saying. What are the causes of this decline in the American intellectual elite who once moved this country forward though? When did it begin? Is it possible to point to a moment or moments and say "Ah, that's when we really took a turn for the worst." That's what I really want to know. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bullshit. They could make all that here. Bottom line is it's cheaper to do it overseas. Where I work our US labor rate (union) is $31.00/hr. Our Mexico facility: $4.00/hr. Do the math. No actually they can't. The facilities don't exist anymore. It would take several years and billions of dollars to put the infrastructure back in place. This is so true. Post-WWII there were a ton of new factories built to replace ones worn out from the war and to expand to serve the growing economy. When the EPA got turned loose, most of those factories were shut down, as bringing them up to standards was more expensive than the companies could bear. Any asbestos or PCB's and they had to be demolished, and becaome brownfields. New consturction was prohibitively expensive (thanks to regs & unions) so the companies went to places where the facilities would be economically viable. Here's one example: Once the World's largest glass factory. http://www.glasslinks.com/trivia/ppg_fordcity99.jpg At one time, 6,800 people lived in Ford City and 4,400 people worked at the PPG Industries plant along the Allegheny River. There was a time when PPG handed out job applications at high school graduations, guaranteeing nearly everyone a job. Ford City began its decline in the 1960s. In 1955, 3,211 people worked at the plant. By 1961, the total was down to 1,957, taking payroll from $18 million to $13 million in that six-year span. An attempt to modernize the plant in 1962 fell flat with labor officials, who did not want to agree to a 25 percent reduction in their work force and thus kept PPG from introducing a cheaper glass-making procedure in Ford City. It built a new plant in Cumberland, Md., instead. After that, the bottom dropped out. Slowly, PPG began siphoning workers from the plant. By 1993, when the plant closed for good, PPG employed only 360 people. But wait, look att the replacement plant! PPG Works No. 7 http://www.spirtas.com/decommission/cumberland2.jpg 1953 Construction of the PPG Works No. 7 begins. 1956-1981 Plate glass manufacturing is conducted at PPG Works No. 7. 1981 PPG Works No. 7 operates as a 1992 plate glass research and development facility. All plant operations ceased in 1992. http://www.spirtas.com/decommission/cumberlandBW.jpg Thanks MD dept of the Environment As a final insult, a PPG plant about 50 miles north of there lost the bid for World Trade Center glass to a Chinese firm. Mfg in this country is fooked. I grew up in the Cumberland, MD area. When that plant and Kelley Springfield Tire closed, it was devastating. That was almost 25 years ago and the area is still an economic wasteland. I have worked for almost 15 years in primary metals, first in steel and now in Cu. The EPA is devastating to industry. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm a mechanical engineer who has worked in high volume manufacturing, low volume manufacturing, product design, patenting and entrepreneurship. There is indeed a serious problem. We need to stop telling all of our high school students that they have to go to college, we need to stop propping up students who major in art history and then do nothing with it, and we need to start teaching kids useful trades and skills.... Our educational system is killing this country. We would have to start by telling them that their self esteem is only useful if it is based on accomplishments, not the the desire to feel good. What are you saying? That A = A? Selfish bastard. |
|
Quoted: I'm a mechanical engineer who has worked in high volume manufacturing, low volume manufacturing, product design, patenting and entrepreneurship. There is indeed a serious problem. We need to stop telling all of our high school students that they have to go to college, we need to stop propping up students who major in art history and then do nothing with it, and we need to start teaching kids useful trades and skills. That said, we have some of the best design engineers in the world here. There's a reason that the best technologies in the world tend to be American designs manufactured elsewhere. We need to use that base of knowledge to design systems that help us compete in the face of a global economy in manufacturing, and we need to be turning *some* of our kids into the next generation of engineers who will do so. The average age at work in my industry is in its early 50's. I'm an optimist, and I think we can be better for it if we put our noses to the grindstone and do a good job of making the next generation of Americans better than the one before it. I'm a designer in the building trades, and I can assure you we're seeing the same thing happening in our professions as well! During this recession/depression we've seen companies shed over 80% of their employees! Most that went were the older 'dead weight' middle managers that didn't do ANY actual design work, and basically lived as Buck-Passers, and they shed much of the 35 to 45 year olds who DEMANDED zero pay cuts, DEMANDED more vacation time, and FELT ENTITLED to countless benefits that companies could no longer afford! I was held on because I was young, and not yet certified as a registered professional, but could do all the same work load of a registered professional - for a few dimes on the dollar in comparison. I was kept on because I'm willing to do just about anything for a buck. My bosses are in their late 50's and late 60's, and were taught how to SUCCESSFULLY and CONSERVATIVELY run a business like ours... However, the current Project & Business Management techniques taught in the Undergrad & Masters programs at my University are fraught with DISASTROUS 'recommended' policies on how our kinds of projects should be run!!! My bosses have VAST EXPERIENTIAL KNOWLEDGE that they don't seem to understand is of CRITICAL importance to the survival of our industry, and only until after I've pointed out the GLARING problems in our current collegiate education system policies and recommended practices - they've started to divulge some of their knowledge! I can assure you, I'm hanging on EVERY word they tell me about their recommended means of Project Management! MARK MY WORDS: ACADEMICS WITH NO EXPERIENCE, TEACHING OUR UNIVERSITY STUDENTS WILL BE A HUGE PART OF THE DOWNFALL OF AMERICA!!! These Academics told me in 2005 "How it's going to be" when I get out into the real world, and I thought - bullshit - that makes no sense from a business perspective... Sure as shit - THEY WERE DEAD WRONG!!! Of the ~25 or so students in graduating class, in my particular chosen field / profession, I'm THE ONLY ONE LEFT that I know of - that is still EMPLOYED within the industry!!! The others are either working unrelated jobs, retail, or something else... A couple of them got jobs working IN GOVERNMENT as "PLAN REVIEWERS."  As if they know what the fuck is best for our Client's and City's needs???They couldn't succeed in the industry, so they went to work for .GOV, and try to tell those of us who ARE successful in the industry WHAT and HOW we should do our jobs. OUR UNIVERSITIES which were infiltrated with Leftist Nutjobs since the 60's, and so-called "Academics" that have no actual professional experience in the Professions in which they're 'Teaching' are a MAJOR PROBLEM CONTRIBUTOR. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bullshit. They could make all that here. Bottom line is it's cheaper to do it overseas. Where I work our US labor rate (union) is $31.00/hr. Our Mexico facility: $4.00/hr. Do the math. No actually they can't. The facilities don't exist anymore. It would take several years and billions of dollars to put the infrastructure back in place. This is so true. Post-WWII there were a ton of new factories built to replace ones worn out from the war and to expand to serve the growing economy. When the EPA got turned loose, most of those factories were shut down, as bringing them up to standards was more expensive than the companies could bear. Any asbestos or PCB's and they had to be demolished, and becaome brownfields. New consturction was prohibitively expensive (thanks to regs & unions) so the companies went to places where the facilities would be economically viable. Here's one example: Once the World's largest glass factory. http://www.glasslinks.com/trivia/ppg_fordcity99.jpg At one time, 6,800 people lived in Ford City and 4,400 people worked at the PPG Industries plant along the Allegheny River. There was a time when PPG handed out job applications at high school graduations, guaranteeing nearly everyone a job.
Ford City began its decline in the 1960s. In 1955, 3,211 people worked at the plant. By 1961, the total was down to 1,957, taking payroll from $18 million to $13 million in that six-year span. An attempt to modernize the plant in 1962 fell flat with labor officials, who did not want to agree to a 25 percent reduction in their work force and thus kept PPG from introducing a cheaper glass-making procedure in Ford City. It built a new plant in Cumberland, Md., instead. After that, the bottom dropped out. Slowly, PPG began siphoning workers from the plant. By 1993, when the plant closed for good, PPG employed only 360 people. But wait, look att the replacement plant! PPG Works No. 7 http://www.spirtas.com/decommission/cumberland2.jpg 1953 Construction of the PPG Works No. 7 begins.
1956-1981 Plate glass manufacturing is conducted at PPG Works No. 7. 1981 PPG Works No. 7 operates as a 1992 plate glass research and development facility. All plant operations ceased in 1992. http://www.spirtas.com/decommission/cumberlandBW.jpg Thanks MD dept of the Environment As a final insult, a PPG plant about 50 miles north of there lost the bid for World Trade Center glass to a Chinese firm. Mfg in this country is fooked. I grew up in the Cumberland, MD area. When that plant and Kelley Springfield Tire closed, it was devastating. That was almost 25 years ago and the area is still an economic wasteland. I have worked for almost 15 years in primary metals, first in steel and now in Cu. The EPA is devastating to industry. Big +1. I have friends who work on the ground in power generation, and they're all saying that the new EPA regs actually will go so far as to force rolling blackouts.
Can't wait to see what the president does with that - people go #$*%ing crazy when the lights go out. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm a mechanical engineer who has worked in high volume manufacturing, low volume manufacturing, product design, patenting and entrepreneurship. There is indeed a serious problem. We need to stop telling all of our high school students that they have to go to college, we need to stop propping up students who major in art history and then do nothing with it, and we need to start teaching kids useful trades and skills. That said, we have some of the best design engineers in the world here. There's a reason that the best technologies in the world tend to be American designs manufactured elsewhere. We need to use that base of knowledge to design systems that help us compete in the face of a global economy in manufacturing, and we need to be turning *some* of our kids into the next generation of engineers who will do so. The average age at work in my industry is in its early 50's. I'm an optimist, and I think we can be better for it if we put our noses to the grindstone and do a good job of making the next generation of Americans better than the one before it. I'm a designer in the building trades, and I can assure you we're seeing the same thing happening in our professions as well! During this recession/depression we've seen companies shed over 80% of their employees! Most that went were the older 'dead weight' middle managers that didn't do ANY actual design work, and basically lived as Buck-Passers, and they shed much of the 35 to 45 year olds who DEMANDED zero pay cuts, DEMANDED more vacation time, and FELT ENTITLED to countless benefits that companies could no longer afford! I was held on because I was young, and not yet certified as a registered professional, but could do all the same work load of a registered professional - for a few dimes on the dollar in comparison. I was kept on because I'm willing to do just about anything for a buck. My bosses are in their late 50's and late 60's, and were taught how to SUCCESSFULLY and CONSERVATIVELY run a business like ours... However, the current Project & Business Management techniques taught in the Undergrad & Masters programs at my University are fraught with DISASTROUS 'recommended' policies on how our kinds of projects should be run!!! My bosses have VAST EXPERIENTIAL KNOWLEDGE that they don't seem to understand is of CRITICAL importance to the survival of our industry, and only until after I've pointed out the GLARING problems in our current collegiate education system policies and recommended practices - they've started to divulge some of their knowledge! I can assure you, I'm hanging on EVERY word they tell me about their recommended means of Project Management! MARK MY WORDS: ACADEMICS WITH NO EXPERIENCE, TEACHING OUR UNIVERSITY STUDENTS WILL BE A HUGE PART OF THE DOWNFALL OF AMERICA!!! These Academics told me in 2005 "How it's going to be" when I get out into the real world, and I thought - bullshit - that makes no sense from a business perspective... Sure as shit - THEY WERE DEAD WRONG!!! Of the ~25 or so students in graduating class, in my particular chosen field / profession, I'm THE ONLY ONE LEFT that I know of - that is still EMPLOYED within the industry!!! The others are either working unrelated jobs, retail, or something else... A couple of them got jobs working IN GOVERNMENT as "PLAN REVIEWERS." As if they know what the fuck is best for our Client's and City's needs???
They couldn't succeed in the industry, so they went to work for .GOV, and try to tell those of us who ARE successful in the industry WHAT and HOW we should do our jobs.
OUR UNIVERSITIES which were infiltrated with Leftist Nutjobs since the 60's, and so-called "Academics" that have no actual professional experience in the Professions in which they're 'Teaching'. That's why I'm going into teaching. |
|
Quoted: People have been predicting would happen since the mid-80s. Kids graduate high school with the equivalent of an engineering degree in Asia. And don't forget about the current crop of American workers. Anyone that has been in industry for any length of time has witnessed it. Employees too stupid and lazy to write their own name cannot be fired, disciplined, or even coached. My "roommate" works at a large paper mill. Lately, within the past year or so an employee can argue about the most important safety rule/violation and ignore them. There are now hoodie wearers driving forklifts, people getting hit or having accidents in an area where they were not supposed to be, plus a mirad of other things. We have lab people that cannot discern between saline and formalin, cannot read a gram stain, and cannot inoculate a petri dish because they will not look at what they are doing so they can inoculate the correct one. There was an auto manufacturer years ago that relocated to Mississippi that could not find enough workers willing to learn even the simplest task. I have lost faith in american workers. Kids are going through life with no curiosity, no ambition, and not even basic life skills after graduation. Until the continued deterioration is addressed, we will still be unable to manufactor goods to any great extent. |
|
Quoted:
There were reasons for the outsourcing and those same reasons will keep them from coming back. The cost of EPA regulations, The cost of OSHA regulations, The cost of Workman’s Compensation Insurance, The cost of American’s with Disabilities act, The cost of Family Leave act, The cost of Affirmative Action, The cost of that part of Social Security paid by employers (FICA), The cost of property taxes on facilities The cost of taxes on corporate earnings The cost of inventory taxes The cost of Green energy The cost of employee medical insurance The cost of retirement programs The cost of insurance on facilities and on, and on, and on. Add the high cost of union wages and work rules on to this and it just no longer works. America has shot itself in the foot with laws, taxes, rules, regulations and unions and there is no way to turn it around Heaven forbid that we have rules in place that protect workers and the environment, among other things. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bullshit. They could make all that here. Bottom line is it's cheaper to do it overseas. Where I work our US labor rate (union) is $31.00/hr. Our Mexico facility: $4.00/hr. Do the math. No actually they can't. The facilities don't exist anymore. It would take several years and billions of dollars to put the infrastructure back in place. This is so true. Post-WWII there were a ton of new factories built to replace ones worn out from the war and to expand to serve the growing economy. When the EPA got turned loose, most of those factories were shut down, as bringing them up to standards was more expensive than the companies could bear. Any asbestos or PCB's and they had to be demolished, and becaome brownfields. New consturction was prohibitively expensive (thanks to regs & unions) so the companies went to places where the facilities would be economically viable. Here's one example: Once the World's largest glass factory. http://www.glasslinks.com/trivia/ppg_fordcity99.jpg At one time, 6,800 people lived in Ford City and 4,400 people worked at the PPG Industries plant along the Allegheny River. There was a time when PPG handed out job applications at high school graduations, guaranteeing nearly everyone a job.
Ford City began its decline in the 1960s. In 1955, 3,211 people worked at the plant. By 1961, the total was down to 1,957, taking payroll from $18 million to $13 million in that six-year span. An attempt to modernize the plant in 1962 fell flat with labor officials, who did not want to agree to a 25 percent reduction in their work force and thus kept PPG from introducing a cheaper glass-making procedure in Ford City. It built a new plant in Cumberland, Md., instead. After that, the bottom dropped out. Slowly, PPG began siphoning workers from the plant. By 1993, when the plant closed for good, PPG employed only 360 people. But wait, look att the replacement plant! PPG Works No. 7 http://www.spirtas.com/decommission/cumberland2.jpg 1953 Construction of the PPG Works No. 7 begins.
1956-1981 Plate glass manufacturing is conducted at PPG Works No. 7. 1981 PPG Works No. 7 operates as a 1992 plate glass research and development facility. All plant operations ceased in 1992. http://www.spirtas.com/decommission/cumberlandBW.jpg Thanks MD dept of the Environment As a final insult, a PPG plant about 50 miles north of there lost the bid for World Trade Center glass to a Chinese firm. Mfg in this country is fooked. I grew up in the Cumberland, MD area. When that plant and Kelley Springfield Tire closed, it was devastating. That was almost 25 years ago and the area is still an economic wasteland. I have worked for almost 15 years in primary metals, first in steel and now in Cu. The EPA is devastating to industry. Big +1. I have friends who work on the ground in power generation, and they're all saying that the new EPA regs actually will go so far as to force rolling blackouts.
Can't wait to see what the president does with that - people go #$*%ing crazy when the lights go out. Blame Bush, obviously. |