Posted: 5/14/2010 9:12:51 PM EDT
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Distances,
This may be a stupid topic to many here, but I'll ask away anyway. For those of us who never received formal infantry training or have done a lot of hunting (I've never been, but really want to) how do you determine distances away from dwellings, streets, city blocks?The reason I ask this is in the event of SHTF/TEOWAKI or just having to be alone or in a small group out in the middle of nowhere, how would you range out distances without the use of a range finder? I am ex Navy and I remember when out at sea the Boatswains mates saying that looking out across the ocean to where the sky and the sea meet is roughly 12 or 13 miles. In relation to land navigation, is there a similar trick? If say in the scenario I mentioned above you brought with you a rifle capable of some good distances, such as M1A or a good bolt action rifle, how would gauge the distance from you to the target and or targets beyond 100,200 or maybe even 300 yards? When I go to the range I see 25 yards, 50,100 and 200 and that is what I am accustomed to and all I know. And by the way for you guys out there who do live out in the middle of nowhere, I am starting to envy you. I really do not like the city life anymore. Also, how can you by eyesight alone, or maybe with scope can you guess the distance in standard measurement as well as in meters? |
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Quoted:
Distances, This may be a stupid topic to many here, but I'll ask away anyway. For those of us who never received formal infantry training or have done a lot of hunting (I've never been, but really want to) how do you determine distances away from dwellings, streets, city blocks?The reason I ask this is in the event of SHTF/TEOWAKI or just having to be alone or in a small group out in the middle of nowhere, how would you range out distances without the use of a range finder? I am ex Navy and I remember when out at sea the Boatswains mates saying that looking out across the ocean to where the sky and the sea meet is roughly 12 or 13 miles. In relation to land navigation, is there a similar trick? If say in the scenario I mentioned above you brought with you a rifle capable of some good distances, such as M1A or a good bolt action rifle, how would gauge the distance from you to the target and or targets beyond 100,200 or maybe even 300 yards? When I go to the range I see 25 yards, 50,100 and 200 and that is what I am accustomed to and all I know. And by the way for you guys out there who do live out in the middle of nowhere, I am starting to envy you. I really do not like the city life anymore. Also, how can you by eyesight alone, or maybe with scope can you guess the distance in standard measurement as well as in meters? Range finder. Get one. |
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I'm probably slow in replying and someone has already posted this but: compare what you already know. If you're familiar with football fields, use that as a comparison. Also note that distances appear closer during the day and farther at night. Additionally, distances over depressions appear deceptively closer. A google search ought to offer several invitations of learning resources.
It is a good thing to know. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be included in the U.S. Army Expert Infantryman Badge testing. |
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It can be extremely deceptive especially in the desert.
As others have noted, try to compare it to a known distance from your own experience such as a football field. Also, you should know what your 100 meter pace count is, so that you can keep track of how much distance you have covered while walking. ETA: This is a real coincidence you just posted this because I was just thinking about this. I almost posted a thread about it myself. I was on a very straight highway covering flat country tonight and saw a traffic light in the distance, and got to wondering how far away I could see it. My guess was at least two miles and maybe even three. |
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Quoted:
Practice eyeballing distances and make a guess. Then pace it out or measure it. Visualize a football field(s) over that distance. Even mo' betta, get that rangefinder. Eyeball it first, then check to see if you were right with the rangefinder. I'd wager that over time, you'll become quite good at it. |
| I learned through repetition in the Army. Things like qualifying with a rifle will really get you used to estimating ranges out to 300m. Any farther than that and I just visualized football fields like others have said. Being on a machinegun got me used to estimating out to about 1500m, but I was much less accurate past 500 or so. |
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As stated above, it depends a lot on the environment. Try to relate a distance you know well, be it a city block or a football field, and lay them down. 100 yards in a forest compared to 100 yards across flat grassland seem to be an order of magnitude different. Get used to what things look like at known distances. A cheap rangefinder that is good to 500 yards is enough to practice with. You can pack a couple years worth of hunting trips into a couple months of guessing a range of a car or dog or person, then checking with rangefinder, and basically training your mind. If you get put into a different environment, such as urban, looking down or up a hill, across a lake, then that will change your perception quite a bit, so you will need to re-learn again there. Some people have a knack for it, others don't, but everybody can get pretty good at it with enough practice, followed up by a VALID range so your brain can link what you saw to the distance. |
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I used to work as a hunting guide and I can tell you that a LOT of people who think they can range distance can't..and by can't I mean by a LOT. My advice, get a rangefinder and walkaround and guess what the distance is and then range it. Even a cheap handheld throwaway optical rangefinder once calibrated will be much more accurate than your eye at first. Before laser rangefinders became cheap/practical enough we used optical handheld ones and they worked well enough. If you've never done much orienteering work etc...take a course and learn to accurately pace. There's more to it than figuring out how far you walk each step. I picked it up early as a kid and then again while working as a forester when I needed to get stand sizes, research plot sizes etc...you start walking the same type of terrain you quickly can get some pretty accurte distances without actually pacing - but you have to start with pacing to get your baseline. Practice makes perfect. You can mix and match both of those techniques above together while out for the day in the woods or whatever. |
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gO WITH WHAT YOU KNOW. pICTURE A FOOTBALL FIELD (sorry, caps lock) works for me. If you know the dimensions of your yard, house, pool, etc. and you can visualize that. then measure it and use that. pace off your street from corner to corner and memorize some basic dimensions. I use football fields because they are 100 yds. some use oly-sized pools if they are used to them.
buy a range finder and test yourself often, build a skill, learn to see how deceptive range estimation can be. challenge yourself to guess what a range might be and then test it. make a fun game out of it to build skill. As a Paramedic knowing children's weight is critical to giving the right dosage of medicine. Being a permanent bachelor with no kids, I would estimate the weights of people s kids and then ask them for verification. got some occasional odd looks , especially when in line at walmart. but it built a skill that I could use and I got pretty good at doing it. Made for some really interesting explanations on occasion. My backup line was always "I've got some recipes..." |
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IIRC, a standard A2 front sight post is *about* 5MOA (on a 20" rifle-length setup). If you know roughly how wide your target is and see how much of it is covered by the post, you can guestimate range pretty effectively.
For instance: a human torso is *about* 20" wide. If your 5MOA post is covering 1/4 of the torso, it's about 100m. If it's covering the whole thing, it's about 400m. Etc. |
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1 - Range finder
2 - It hardly ever matters. If you are sighted in for 200 or 250, you are going to be close enough at almost any distance that you realistically might want to take a shot. If somebody is 50 yards away, your 200 yard zero will work. If somebody is 300 yards away, your 200 yard zero will get you in the neighborhood. (You might hit the belly instead of the chest.) If somebody is so far away that you can barely see them (like a quarter mile/440 yards) then you don't really care whether the distance is 400 or 500. Don't take the shot and call attention to yourself; get out of there. |