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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 8/10/2002 7:40:49 PM EST
About a month ago my wife and two kids were walking through a wallmart parking lot they were walking down the left side (rear bumper side) and a lady in a van was driving down the isle there was a car that was going to leave so she stopped the wife and kids were slowing down to let the car backing out of the space exit the parking spot this is when this lady in a van started to proceed she was swinging wide to park a van the van was an extended van so to park she needed to swing wide the wife and kids were stopped the van was inching toward the kids driver must not have seen the kids the driver was looking at my wife like are you going to move and threw her hands up. The van kept inching this is when my wife yelled watch it! they had to back up to avoid being pinned between a truck bumper and the van. The wife being upset and started to walk into the store she said what a slut talking to the kids, the driver heard my wife and started yelling you don't call me a slut making a big scene words were exchanged some cursing between both parties. They eventually went on their way the driver went and called the police the cop came down and got statements then said he was going to charge her for disorderly conduct he was not going to give a ticket but the statements would be reviewed. Today she got a summons to appear before a judge. To the above named defendant: complaint under oath has been made that you committed the crime of disorderly conduct the defendant, intending to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, did engage in abusive or obscene language or make obscene gestures in a public place. My question is if the lady in the van didn't have her panties in a crunch to get the parking spot or would not have almost endangered the lives of children words would have not been exchanged its not like she walks through wallmart parking lot looking to cause a scene. She did make a statement and wrote her version of the story so the events and words that were exchanged are documented and she signed it but our stance has always been to be honest. should I look into getting legal representation? should the driver of the van be charged with disorderly conduct also because she was swearing creating a scene but because she was the one reporting no charges filed? it is only a class C misdemeanor but the money for legal representation and fines would be better spent on fun things Mags, Ammo, reloading supplys. advice is much appreciated Thank you in advance.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 3:56:47 AM EST
Too bad. Sounds like a BS charge. I don't have any legal advise but I can give your post a bump to the front page . Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 4:10:54 AM EST
ALWAYS get legal representation. Get the best you can afford.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 4:12:55 AM EST
Disorderly conduct is a piddly little bullshit nothing charge. With your wife already giving a written statement of what truely happened it's going to be hard for her to beat the charge since she has basically already confessed to being guilty. I'd probably just pay my fine or if court is required plead no contest to get it over with and then spend all of my extra time in WalMart parking lot waiting for my chance to get a little "revenge".
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 4:22:17 AM EST
How old are your kids? So your wife told your kids that this lady is a slut 'cause she almost grazed them in a parking lot? Sounds like she should be charged with "White Trash In Public".
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 4:24:39 AM EST
NEVER make statements during an investigation.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 4:27:23 AM EST
Personally, I would seek legal representation. Criminal charges are forever. They don't go away. However, in some cases, a decent lawyer may help to get the charges reduced to a summary offense, rather than misdemeanor, or something along those lines. At the very least, I would go to court, and give my side of the story to the judge. It sounds like this person is a bit overzealous and has probably been in the court before. Perhaps the judge would recognize her and try talking some sense into her and dropping the charges anyway. Anyway, just my opinion. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 4:36:28 AM EST
Why does this kind of thing only and always happen in Walmarts parking lot? You don't see this kind of behavior at Nieman Marcus....
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 5:00:54 AM EST
Well, there's always two sides to the story and that is what court is for. Calling someone a name is NOT a criminal offense. I would get an attorney and also file assault charges against the other woman. You don't have to actually be hit to file assault. You have to feel threatened and it sounds as if you were. I didn't realize another person could press disorderly charges against you. At least in Ohio, disorderly charges are connected with public intox. I have never heard of someone simply being charged with 'disorderly'. That sounds like a scary, bullshit charge just perfect for a totalitarian government to tell you how to act and behave.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 5:33:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By M4SpuD: .....our stance has always been to be honest.
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That's why you get a lawyer. They're paid to lie.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 5:47:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By BenDover: Calling someone a name is NOT a criminal offense.
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Untrue, it depends on what you call them, where it happens and where you live. Ponyboy (who's been to jail on a disorderly conduct charge for calling someone a name because cursing in public is a crime in some places)
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 5:50:36 AM EST
Get a lawyer, tell the lawyer what the police said happened. A good lawyer wll not want you to tell him what really happened until he explains all the defense options. Court plus no lawyer equal bad things.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 5:52:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By M4SpuD: did engage in abusive or obscene language or make obscene gestures in a public place. .
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Funny, many states have had these DisCon subdivisons removed from their penal laws. NY being one of them. Cursing and giving the finger are protected acts under the constitution.. :)
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 5:53:55 AM EST
If I were in your predicament,since you've already signed a statement. Pass on getting a legal agent. Plead "Guilty with a Statement." Have your wife give a very detailed account of why she acted & used the language. CALMLY !!! Point the finger!!! A vehicle Can be a Dangerous Weapon....She was in Fear for the Safety of the Children. GOOD LUCK.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 5:55:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Originally Posted By BenDover: Calling someone a name is NOT a criminal offense.
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Untrue, it depends on what you call them, where it happens and where you live. Ponyboy (who's been to jail on a disorderly conduct charge for calling someone a name because cursing in public is a crime in some places)
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That's right it's not a 'criminal offense'. Here in NY when it was still on the books it was a 'violation' not a criminal offense. Criminal offenses being a Misdemeanor and a Felony.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 5:58:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 5:58:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By Happyshooter: Get a lawyer, tell the lawyer what the police said happened. A good lawyer wll not want you to tell him what really happened until he explains all the defense options. Court plus no lawyer equal bad things.
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Did yall read that it is a class C misdemeanor? That's equivalent to a speeding ticket. Do you get a lawyer to go to traffic court to contest a $60 jaywalking fine? She's already confessed in writing. Why pay a lawyer a nice chuck of money to acomplish jack shit? She needs to take her lumps and go on unless they like blowing money for no reason.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 6:03:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By BuLLet: That's right it's not a 'criminal offense'. Here in NY when it was still on the books it was a 'violation' not a criminal offense. Criminal offenses being a Misdemeanor and a Felony.
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Read above. He stated that where he lives it is a class C misdemeanor or "criminal offense". I don't care what you want to call it, if they can take your ass to jail for it, it's a crime.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 6:04:25 AM EST
Get a lawyer and fight it. Yes it is a piddly/minor charge, but lately these piddly charges are being used as proof of character. Who knows what will happen in five years, it could be used to prevent her from getting a job, a gun, etc.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 6:10:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By neilfj: Get a lawyer and fight it. Yes it is a piddly/minor charge, but lately these piddly charges are being used as proof of character. Who knows what will happen in five years, it could be used to prevent her from getting a job, a gun, etc.
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Since I've got a DC charge I've bought a lot of guns, including machineguns and suppressors without any problems. Got a concealed handgun license, no questions asked. Got a job as an engineer at a fortune 500 company without any questions asked about the disorderly conduct charge on the job application. It's a piddly little bullshit charge that the police use when there isn't really any good reason to charge you with anything else. An attorney in this case would be a waste of money...
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 6:45:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 7:11:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/11/2002 7:16:33 AM EST by gunham]
I am sorry, but situations like this make me mad. The driver of the van bears total responsibility in this situation. If one of the kids had been hit or otherwise injured, then the driver would be changed with a crime. People walking always have the right of way. Get a lawyer and counter change the van driver with negligent driving. I am sure that you can get the charges on the van driver up to a felony. P.S. Please use some punctuation as it makes following what you are trying to say easier.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 7:28:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By kwb377: How old are your kids? So your wife told your kids that this lady is a slut 'cause she almost grazed them in a parking lot? Sounds like she should be charged with "White Trash In Public".
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yes
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 7:56:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By M4SpuD: About a month ago my wife and two kids were walking through a wallmart parking lot they were walking down the left side (rear bumper side) and a lady in a van was driving down the isle there was a car that was going to leave so she stopped the wife and kids were slowing down to let the car backing out of the space exit the parking spot this is when this lady in a van started to proceed she was swinging wide to park a van the van was an extended van so to park she needed to swing wide the wife and kids were stopped the van was inching toward the kids driver must not have seen the kids the driver was looking at my wife like are you going to move and threw her hands up. The van kept inching this is when my wife yelled watch it! they had to back up to avoid being pinned between a truck bumper and the van. The wife being upset and started to walk into the store she said what a slut talking to the kids, the driver heard my wife and started yelling you don't call me a slut making a big scene words were exchanged some cursing between both parties. They eventually went on their way the driver went and called the police the cop came down and got statements then said he was going to charge her for disorderly conduct he was not going to give a ticket but the statements would be reviewed. Today she got a summons to appear before a judge. To the above named defendant: complaint under oath has been made that you committed the crime of disorderly conduct the defendant, intending to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, did engage in abusive or obscene language or make obscene gestures in a public place. My question is if the lady in the van didn't have her panties in a crunch to get the parking spot or would not have almost endangered the lives of children words would have not been exchanged its not like she walks through wallmart parking lot looking to cause a scene. She did make a statement and wrote her version of the story so the events and words that were exchanged are documented and she signed it but our stance has always been to be honest. should I look into getting legal representation? should the driver of the van be charged with disorderly conduct also because she was swearing creating a scene but because she was the one reporting no charges filed? it is only a class C misdemeanor but the money for legal representation and fines would be better spent on fun things Mags, Ammo, reloading supplys. advice is much appreciated Thank you in advance.
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dude, ever hear of periods and commas? i got dizzy reading your post.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 8:09:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/11/2002 8:12:02 AM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 8:57:06 AM EST
Huh? She was walking away and said to the kids, "What a slut."? She didnt direct it towards the slut and there was NO INTENT to start something with the slut. And then, the 'slut' started to make a scene? Her INTENT was to make a scene and keep it going when she called the cops. You don't 'need' a lawyer for that one. The judge will laugh at the 'slut' and dismiss the case. However, if you don't know your way around a courtroom, you might 'want' a lawyer.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 9:03:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/11/2002 11:37:59 AM EST by heliflyer]
Originally Posted By M4SpuD: The wife being upset and started to walk into the store she said what a slut talking to the kids, the driver heard my wife and started yelling you don't call me a slut making a big scene words were exchanged some cursing between both parties.
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Man, your wife has got a potty mouth. I love it.
should the driver of the van be charged with disorderly conduct also because she was swearing creating a scene but because she was the one reporting no charges filed?
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File the same, identical charge, against the other [b]A[/b]dam [b]H[/b]enry woman. See if you can't get the driver charged with [b]child endangermant[/b]. Tell the judge you wife is not prone to emotional outbursts (she isn't, is she?) in public. The safety of her children was her only concern. She emphasized her protests with [b]adjetives[/b] that were appropriate, and intended to make the driver [b]keenly aware[/b] of her [b]negligence[/b]. The Words were used to make it easier for the offending driver to remember her negligence in the future. [b]But, file the same charges against the other party.[/b] Here in the Socialist Peoples Republik of Kalifornia, a person can be charged with disorderly conduct for flipping another driver off in traffic. (I would [b]n-e-v-e-r[/b] flip another driver off. I merely [b]salute[/b] them with one finger, rigidly extended, at a time) Bill
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 10:09:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By BenDover: Calling someone a name is NOT a criminal offense.
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In my state there is a criminal section for "words likely to cause a violent reaction". Basically things like making disparaging remarks against someones family. Our "Disorderly conduct" laws have about 20 subsections and cover things like: Drunk in public, prostitution, aggressive panhandling, blocking the sidewalk, ect...
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 1:04:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By liberty86: NEVER make statements during an investigation.
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A little late to help your wife, but excellent advice for others. It may be worth talking to an attorney just to see if this is somthing that could affect her some time in the future.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 1:23:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: Did yall read that it is a class C misdemeanor? That's equivalent to a speeding ticket. Do you get a lawyer to go to traffic court to contest a $60 jaywalking fine? She's already confessed in writing. Why pay a lawyer a nice chuck of money to acomplish jack shit? She needs to take her lumps and go on unless they like blowing money for no reason.
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This isn't a jaywalking fine. I've paid a lawyer $250 to fight an $83 speeding ticket. The charges were dropped. My insurance didn't go up. No speeding on my record. There are too many "just bend over and take it" attitudes in this country. (this comment is in no way directed towards my friend BenDover) ;) I'm not trying to debate if the criminal charges will ever change the accused person's way of life. I'm only saying that one shouldn't give in to BS charges. No criminal charge is much better than a criminal charge you think hasn't affected your way of life, or won't affect your way of life in the future.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 1:31:40 PM EST
FREE COUNTRY bwa haaaaaa I wonder how much money the state will make off of this? [puke]
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 1:47:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/11/2002 1:50:04 PM EST by Ponyboy]
Originally Posted By JAFO: This isn't a jaywalking fine. I've paid a lawyer $250 to fight an $83 speeding ticket. The charges were dropped. My insurance didn't go up. No speeding on my record. There are too many "just bend over and take it" attitudes in this country. (this comment is in no way directed towards my friend BenDover) ;) I'm not trying to debate if the criminal charges will ever change the accused person's way of life. I'm only saying that one shouldn't give in to BS charges. No criminal charge is much better than a criminal charge you think hasn't affected your way of life, or won't affect your way of life in the future.
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Your fighting the speeding ticket came out to your advantage, because likely you'll save more than the original $250 in insurance premiums. That is a good reason to fight a charge in which you are guilty. There is absolutely no good reason for her to fight this charge with an attorney, especially after she has already admitted that she is guilty in writing. She will gain no advantage in hiring a lawyer unless she just doesn't want it on her record for personal reasons. The fact of the matter is, she committed a crime and she was subsequently charged and has virtually confessed. Sure I think the other lady is a "slut" and I probably would have not reacted as nicely as his wife did. I also wouldn't confess to anything either. Were I in the same situation I'd just pay my fine and go on and I've got a free attorney. It wouldn't cost me a dime to show up with three different lawyers to fight the charge if I wanted, but it isn't worth my time. I do however have a squeaky clean driving record only for the same reason you do...it will save me money. [edited to add: Also, I don't think that I have a bend over and take it attitude...it's more of a fuck you, I don't give a shit attitude.]
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 2:12:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/11/2002 2:20:19 PM EST by JAFO]
I know this could be made to be bigger than it really is, but I'm guessing once a plea of "not guilty" is made, the whole thing would disappear. I'm not a lawyer and have never studied law. Maybe a lawyer could chime in, but wouldn't the "confession" not be allowed as evidence since (and I'm just assuming) the accused wasn't read her rights? Was she offered the opportunity to contact a lawyer before signing the "confession"? Sorry, too much CourtTV I guess ;) I know that a lot of people would just let it go and pay the fine. I'm only guessing that the judge wouldn't want to waste taxpayers money on a trial, and the charges would be dropped. I'm also guessing that the lawyer's fees, if it never went to trial, shouldn't be all that great. I guess the parties involved just have to decide which way to go. I know what I would do. It wouldn't hurt to at least talk to an attorney that has a free consultation fee, to see what they think and what the fees would be. I would only fight it in case of being charged with some other crime some day. I don't want the newspapers reporting that I have a 3 page rap sheet, even if it's only DC convictions ;) I doubt the reporting person really wants to see this guy's wife convicted. She's probably a snob who is used to things going her way. It wouldn't hurt to show up and say "sorry" after the charges have been dropped. It never hurts to say "sorry" even if you've done nothing wrong, in my opinion. I dunno. This is all just my opinion. edited to fix grammar and add: I didn't intend the "bend over and take it attitude" thing as a direct personal insult. I could have worded it different, but a rose by any other name...
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 2:23:55 PM EST
Sure she could get a lawyer and fight it. Her written statement might or might not be thrown out. She could plead not guilty and request a jury trial. The charges might get dismissed or plea bargained down, though there isn't much farther down to go since it's a C misdemeanor. Or if everybody is a jackass it could theoretically go to trial and she could end up spending tons of money on something stupid and still come out with a criminal charge. There is no upside to fighting it with an attorney. It's too petty unless you just personally do not want that charge on your record. Like I said, it wouldn't cost me jack shit to fight the charge, but it just isn't worth it. There is nothing to gain and lots of money to lose.
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 3:58:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: Read above. He stated that where he lives it is a class C misdemeanor or "criminal offense". I don't care what you want to call it, if they can take your ass to jail for it, it's a crime.
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*sigh* Thanks pony boy I'll reread it again.. just to make you happy.. By the way.. you can be taken to jail for just about anything. Traffic infractions included.. but, who cares anyway. Oh wait, that's not a crime as well..
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 4:04:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar:
Originally Posted By hielo: Why does this kind of thing only and always happen in Walmarts parking lot? You don't see this kind of behavior at Nieman Marcus....
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Being a Part time Deputy Sheriff in a jurisdiction that has Walmart as a major retailer I feel qualified to answer your well thought out and quite logical question. I will preface this by stating that I grew up in a rather upper class neighborhood with wealthy parents. If the lable didn't say Saks, Neiman Marcus, or Nordstroms, my mom would not allow it in my closet, hence my rebellious career choice. First, there is a sense of Decorum when shopping at an upscale retailer, this is facilitated by the environment provided by the venue, things such as Valet parking, convenience etc. There is also a certian amount of social etiquette that is expected at this tier of society, ie, it is just as wrong to respond publicly to provocation as it is to do the first offensive thing. The actual response to insult is to snub the insulter by failing to respond, thereby proving that the offender was not even worthy of comment. These retailers are fairly exclusive places, with prices to match and requiring of " A " player status to gain admittance. Walmart on the other hand is egalitarian if nothing else. 24 hours a day, seven days a week, everyone from every tier of society is welcome to come and partake of their low priced Asian made goods. Some of these folks feel more freedom to express themselves and their feelings than would be appropriate in other tiers of society or at other locations. It would seem that the wide open parking lots and cart carrals provide a certain cover for boorish behavior therefore people avail themselves of the opportunity to act in a manner that might not be appropriate at another time or place. Just my observations, all disclaimers apply.
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Shotar, I really enjoyed that.....Good one!
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 4:09:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Aimless: I think you are thinking of Harrassment 2nd, that statute was held to be partially unconsitutional in 1989-(People v. Dietze, 75 N.Y.2d 47.) Disorderly Conduct is alive and well in NY -Penal law section 240.20 In People v. Tichenor, 89 N.Y.2d 769 The Court of Appeals (the highest court in NY) upheld charging people with Disorderly Conduct for yelling an obscenity at a police officer in public-Dis con requires that the action occur in a public place and the defendant act with the intent to cause public annoyance.
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Yep, I stand corrected it was Harrassment I was thinking of.. :)
Link Posted: 8/11/2002 7:55:37 PM EST
Thanks for all of your replies...
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 4:45:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By DevilsAdvocate: You don't 'need' a lawyer for that one. The judge will laugh at the 'slut' and dismiss the case.
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You're going out on a limb telling someone they don't need an attorney. You're going further out on the limb presuming a judge will act in a particular fashion. They can do pretty much what they want, and often do.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 5:09:15 AM EST
Your wife should have immediately replied with a counter-charge of "driving to endanger" "Reckless Driving" or "Failure to Yield to a pedestrian" Those are potentially serious charges that could, if proven, have a huge impact on the van driver's insurance rates or driving priveleges. Frankly, the counter-charge, with it's involvement of CHILDREN would be the kiss of death for her willingness to press charges. It may not be too late to counter-charge, but it may also look like you are just trying to force her to drop her charges and that could work against you.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 11:57:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By agtm: FREE COUNTRY bwa haaaaaa I wonder how much money the state will make off of this? [puke]
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I wonder how much TAX MONEY will be spent on it! Bill
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 12:03:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By icemanat95: Your wife should have immediately replied with a counter-charge of "driving to endanger" "Reckless Driving" or "Failure to Yield to a pedestrian" Those are potentially serious charges that could, if proven, have a huge impact on the van driver's insurance rates or driving priveleges. Frankly, the counter-charge, with it's involvement of CHILDREN would be the kiss of death for her willingness to press charges. It may not be too late to counter-charge, but it may also look like you are just trying to force her to drop her charges and that could work against you.
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This above post is excellent advice. A lawyer could get her statement thrown out. IF, she was not read her rights, before the statement was taken.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 12:12:29 PM EST
Happens to me every time I go to Wal-mart. Too many darn rednecks anyway. Well I guess if adults could act as such we would probably not have too many of these types of CHILDISH incidents.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 12:55:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 2:30:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By heliflyer: A lawyer could get her statement thrown out. IF, she was not read her rights, before the statement was taken.
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Wrong. You have been watching too much TV. Miranda only applies to custodial interrogations. I doubt she was ever "in custody" at the Walmart parking lot.
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