Posted: 9/24/2010 9:04:02 AM EDT
| I'm looking at the Nikon D3000. There's a good price on a display model. It's probably been handled a lot with ignorant folks fingering the reflex mirror, etc. Display a good deal, or better off paying more for one that hasn't been handled? |
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If the D3000 is as good as my D5000, which I believe it is, you're going to love it. I'm new to the DSLR world and this camera is easy to get the hang of. IIRC, the biggest differences are the swing-out screen and maybe a difference in video recording. The swing-out screen is great because you can flip it over when you're not using the camera which protects the screen. Other that that, it's just a neat-o feature to me. I never record video with mine, so to me, it's not a big deal.
If I had it to do over, I probably would have gotten the 3000 to save a few bucks. |
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Just another option - check online for refurbished prices. At least you know those have been worked over by Canon or Nikon just before you receive it. I got a Nikon refurbished D5000 with kit 18-55 lens for something like 550, which is 200 off retail. It had one cosmetic scratch on it, and it wasn't on the screen. No problem with it - hell, maybe I'll be able to get a refurb D7000 in a few more months. Quoted: If the D3000 is as good as my D5000, which I believe it is, you're going to love it. I'm new to the DSLR world and this camera is easy to get the hang of. IIRC, the biggest differences are the swing-out screen and maybe a difference in video recording. The swing-out screen is great because you can flip it over when you're not using the camera which protects the screen. Other that that, it's just a neat-o feature to me. I never record video with mine, so to me, it's not a big deal. If I had it to do over, I probably would have gotten the 3000 to save a few bucks. Not really. The D5000 is in another league because it uses the same sensor as the D90, while the D3000 retains an older sensor recycled from several previous generations of Nikon SLRs. OP, I'd suggest strongly at looking toward the D5000. It's much more camera without a significant price jump. Check out this page - it shows a good comparison of the D90, D5000 and D3000 feature by feature. The review is really helpful in showing the differences too. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond5000/ Might as well also check out the D3100 review, the model that replaces the D3000. It seems pretty capable specifications, but I'm waiting for a solid review first. http://www.dpreview.com/previews/Nikond3100/ |
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I got my D5000 from Adorama on E-bay with one of the last Bing cashback deals I got it for 477.00 shipped. It is fantastic camera, it is most of a D90 shoved into a D40 body. Get the 5000 and then spend money on good glass. Jeff Was this a refurbished unit? Body only or lens included? |
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OP, I'd suggest strongly at looking toward the D5000. It's much more camera without a significant price jump. You've got my attention here. Enough that I'm delaying the purchase to finish the conversation. I had planned to go buy the D3000 this afternoon. We're photography noobs. Right now we run around with this: 
It actually works pretty well for us because it's always there. Slipped in a pocket and fast to deploy. Cheap enough to risk bringing with while climbing bluffs or going kayaking. We've clicked off over 12,000 pictures and videos with it. I'll play with it some, but the new one is really for the wife. She likes to click away with the POS we have and is ready for something better. I initially chose the D3000 because it will coach the user through the use of its settings. The idea was that we'd get better pictures with a mid-range model that was set properly than we would with a gee-wiz model that we didn't know how to use. The display D3000 + 18-55mm lens is $324.31 + tax. The NIB D3000 + 18-55mm lens is $449 + tax. The refurbed D5000 + 18-55mm lens is $520; delivered. I'm willing to jump to the D5000 if it's going to be a better camera over time. Wife is practical enough to not care that her gift is a refurb. Please restate / reaffirm your advice with the expanded end user info included. |
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If you're going to take a little bit of a risk buying a "used" camera, I personally would go for something like a D40 where you won't be out much $$ if it goes south. Learn some stuff, and if you decide later you need more, you can sell it and upgrade. $250 (probably less if you keep your eyes pealed and act quick) will get you going. My $0.02. Ty |
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OP, I'd suggest strongly at looking toward the D5000. It's much more camera without a significant price jump. You've got my attention here. Enough that I'm delaying the purchase to finish the conversation. I had planned to go buy the D3000 this afternoon. We're photography noobs. Right now we run around with this: http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/compacts/images/sd750/sd750.jpg It actually works pretty well for us because it's always there. Slipped in a pocket and fast to deploy. Cheap enough to risk bringing with while climbing bluffs or going kayaking. We've clicked off over 12,000 pictures and videos with it. I'll play with it some, but the new one is really for the wife. She likes to click away with the POS we have and is ready for something better. I initially chose the D3000 because it will coach the user through the use of its settings. The idea was that we'd get better pictures with a mid-range model that was set properly than we would with a gee-wiz model that we didn't know how to use. The display D3000 + 18-55mm lens is $324.31 + tax. The NIB D3000 + 18-55mm lens is $449 + tax. The refurbed D5000 + 18-55mm lens is $520; delivered. I'm willing to jump to the D5000 if it's going to be a better camera over time. Wife is practical enough to not care that her gift is a refurb. Please restate / reaffirm your advice with the expanded end user info included. I did something very similar - except substitute girlfriend for wife and you have my situation. I looked at the D3000, then looked at the D5000. There was no way I was going to spend money on the D3000 with the D5000 being that much better technologically. I asked if she cared if it were a refurb unit (stating it would be a better overall camera) and purchased it with her go ahead. She had no idea, she thought I was getting her a D3000. Looking at the features it offers - I would have been happy, but not ecstatic like I am with the D5000. Chromatic aberration reduction is phenomenal, bracketing is incredibly useful, and I love the user interface. The video mode is kind of gimmicky, and live view focus is slow and annoying. The rotatable screen is slightly odd - I have used it on occasion to take photos while in a crowd or the like. The viewfinder is better than the D3000, but not great like a D90 (same description goes for the screen resolution). I have taken over 3000 photos with the camera myself, and love it. So far we have the 18-55 and the 55-200 kit lenses (read the cheapo non-aperture fixed). They take excellent photos, easily. The girlfriend had never owned a DSLR, so I bought her a book on photography, a book about the D5000 (I think "D5000 for dummies") and away she went. The camera has a built in feature to help you compose photos - sort of like a GUI beginners guide. It's helpful, but not intrusive. I shoot in manual mode 95% of the time anyway, and it doesn't hinder you here. You can have issues with refurb cameras, I did not. In fact, I have 3 Nikons and none of them were new at purchase. I always went refurb. There will always be horror stories I suppose. The D3100 is about to come out, so expect prices to drop out on D3000s. The D7000 (announced a week ago) will be my next purchase - but that will replace the aging D90. The D5000's future is unknown at this point - it looks like the D3100 more or less surpasses it, however the rotating screen may be implemented on another model? Who knows. At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is her happiness, yeah? I get this question by the girlfriend at least twice a month: "Can we go to take pictures with my camera this weekend?" She loves it. |
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I'm looking at the Nikon D3000. There's a good price on a display model. It's probably been handled a lot with ignorant folks fingering the reflex mirror, etc. Display a good deal, or better off paying more for one that hasn't been handled? Either get the D5000 or the D90....the low light performance of the D3000 is not that good IMO But the real suggestion that I can give you is....is a DSLR what you really want? or will you be happy with a very good pointandshoot? |
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I'm looking at the Nikon D3000. There's a good price on a display model. It's probably been handled a lot with ignorant folks fingering the reflex mirror, etc. Display a good deal, or better off paying more for one that hasn't been handled? Either get the D5000 or the D90....the low light performance of the D3000 is not that good IMO But the real suggestion that I can give you is....is a DSLR what you really want? or will you be happy with a very good pointandshoot? Interesting question. I always thought of the SLRs as the automatic go-to option if you wanted to start taking good pictures. Most of the time a good point&shoot would probably suffice. She tries to take pictures of me riding trackdays and that's something where you need a lens. I think some of the point&shoot models are accepting lenses now, but by the time we had that setup I imagine the money would be close enough for the DSLR to win. I willing to listen if anyone has advice on this, but I'm nearly certain that the DSLR is what we're going to end up with. |
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At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is her happiness, yeah? I get this question by the girlfriend at least twice a month: "Can we go to take pictures with my camera this weekend?" She loves it. Thanks for typing out good responses. I showed her this thread. We went over the spec comparison sheet. I explained the differences to the best of my ability. Told her that if she was eager we could go get the D3000 tomorrow, or she could have the refurbed D5000 with a wait. Warned her that she'd have to read a book or take a photography class to utilize all of what the camera can do. Looks like the D5000 is the winner. |
| Please do consider moving up to the d5000. For your uses I think it's way more value to you than the 3k. The high iso performance is very respectable ( let's you use higher shutter speeds in low light, thus reducing motion blur) user interface isn't intimidating. With the 3100 and 7000 being announced there should be some killer deals on the 5k. If she's taking pics of you on track days put some money in good glass and you'll both love the results. |
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Go for the D90! This, the video is worth it Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Maybe some day. I don't mind going a few bucks over my initial budget if it's a short jump to something way better, but I'm not ready to double down. I'm riding just about the same bike as you. It's ready for a chain, the shock needs a rebuild, and the forks are getting valved. These aren't farkles. I'm using up everything the machine has and kissing the limits. Time to buy some more margin. She'll have to 'make do' with the D5000 for now. 
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I'm a Canon dslr guy so I can't help you with the nikon gear but the biggest drawback to a DSLR is that you have to 'plan' to take pictures. By this I mean you're very unlikely to be carrying it around all the time. If you really want it to use for track days then you'll be fine because that's a planned event. The biggest advantage to the dslr/prosumer cameras is the generally higher image quality that can be attained (or you can shoot large and crop down easier), extremely fast processing (high frame rates are possible), high ISO options (low light/faster shutter speeds are possible), higher quality lenses ($$$ though), stuff like easier HDR images and high levels of manual control. You'll probably want to pick up a zoom telephoto for shooting track events but it depends on exactly what kind of shots you're looking for (don't know how close your gf will be and a 140mm lens or whatever comes with the camera isn't going to really 'reach out' that much). Then you'll probably want a wide angle lens for the outdoors stuff. just imo. But be forewarned...a dslr isn't going to automatically give you better pictures (a candid snapshot is still just a snapshot). All a dslr does is just give you more tools and flexibility to capture the image exactly how you want to do it. Personally I probably wouldn't pick up a store demo (especially at a high traffic place like bestbuy or walmart). Quoted: Quoted: Either get the D5000 or the D90....the low light performance of the D3000 is not that good IMO But the real suggestion that I can give you is....is a DSLR what you really want? or will you be happy with a very good pointandshoot? Interesting question. I always thought of the SLRs as the automatic go-to option if you wanted to start taking good pictures. Most of the time a good point&shoot would probably suffice. She tries to take pictures of me riding trackdays and that's something where you need a lens. I think some of the point&shoot models are accepting lenses now, but by the time we had that setup I imagine the money would be close enough for the DSLR to win. I willing to listen if anyone has advice on this, but I'm nearly certain that the DSLR is what we're going to end up with. |
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Quoted: Excellent. You will both enjoy it. With the D5000 you have more artistic room and it will take you longer to out-grow than a D3000. Quoted: Quoted: Go for the D90! This, the video is worth it Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Maybe some day. I don't mind going a few bucks over my initial budget if it's a short jump to something way better, but I'm not ready to double down. I'm riding just about the same bike as you. It's ready for a chain, the shock needs a rebuild, and the forks are getting valved. These aren't farkles. I'm using up everything the machine has and kissing the limits. Time to buy some more margin. She'll have to 'make do' with the D5000 for now. One note of caution that I had to learn the hard way - the default JPEG setting for the D5000 is soft and undersaturated. You can change those settings to make it crisper with more vibrant colors. I suggest doing that right off the bat - unfortunately I had 1300 pictures from Iceland that were desaturated and soft, but a little photoshop will go a long way to correct that. But, since this is all worthless without some photos - here is some stuff I had on the card - unfortunately the airshow picks were a dark and gloomy day. Nothing expert by any means, but then again its a D5000 with kit telephoto. Observer is right about the camera - it is a tool that can help you, but you still need to have the shot. The biggest advantage I've found of the DSLR - the burst frame rate. Imagine taking the first photo below where the Angels are flying past you at 400 knots with a point and shoot with slow zoom and focusing, versus the DSLR where I can shoot five frames every second with nearly instant focus. This means I have a much higher probability of getting that shot - and my God, is it addictive.   And for a little humor...  Enjoy! |
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Its all about getting that one perfect shot
All cameras.... from the humble D40 to the mighty D3...will perform virtually the same at full light at noon at ISO 100 What you are paying for basically in a camera body is the low light performance.... 
and special niche capabilities 
but at the end of the day...it is what you are willing to do to get that one perfect shot 
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Excellent. You will both enjoy it. With the D5000 you have more artistic room and it will take you longer to out-grow than a D3000.
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Go for the D90! This, the video is worth it Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Maybe some day. I don't mind going a few bucks over my initial budget if it's a short jump to something way better, but I'm not ready to double down. I'm riding just about the same bike as you. It's ready for a chain, the shock needs a rebuild, and the forks are getting valved. These aren't farkles. I'm using up everything the machine has and kissing the limits. Time to buy some more margin. She'll have to 'make do' with the D5000 for now.
One note of caution that I had to learn the hard way - the default JPEG setting for the D5000 is soft and undersaturated. You can change those settings to make it crisper with more vibrant colors. I suggest doing that right off the bat - unfortunately I had 1300 pictures from Iceland that were desaturated and soft, but a little photoshop will go a long way to correct that. But, since this is all worthless without some photos - here is some stuff I had on the card - unfortunately the airshow picks were a dark and gloomy day. Nothing expert by any means, but then again its a D5000 with kit telephoto. Observer is right about the camera - it is a tool that can help you, but you still need to have the shot. The biggest advantage I've found of the DSLR - the burst frame rate. Imagine taking the first photo below where the Angels are flying past you at 400 knots with a point and shoot with slow zoom and focusing, versus the DSLR where I can shoot five frames every second with nearly instant focus. This means I have a much higher probability of getting that shot - and my God, is it addictive. http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/mercaptan/Blueangels.jpg http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/mercaptan/a10.jpg And for a little humor... http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/mercaptan/turtle.jpg Enjoy! I didn't know about this. What do you change? Or at least, where do you make the changes? I just went through the menu and didn't see where to change the saturation, etc. settings for images to be saved. |
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the D5000 is pretty much a D90 minus an internal focus motor.
The internal focus motor is handy when you're wanting to use the older lenses that don't have a focus motor built in (and would like them to autofocus). The D5000 also has a built in intervalometer that the D90 for some reason doesn't have. I like the D5000, a friend has one and I shoot with it on occasion. I still prefer my D90, but between the two, the sensor and a good majority of the features are the same. |
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I'm looking at the Nikon D3000. There's a good price on a display model. It's probably been handled a lot with ignorant folks fingering the reflex mirror, etc. Display a good deal, or better off paying more for one that hasn't been handled? It wouldn't concern me a bit. I wouldn't give it a second thought. You plan on using the camera, right? ETA: I can't believe how many people are telling you to buy a new one. Hell, I'd go find an actual used one and buy that! Look, electronics either work or they don't. You have the greatest likelihood of getting a bum one the second you pull a fresh one out of the box. If there's going to be a problem. that's likely to be when it turns up. Of course, the chances of that are virtually nil. As for the mirror, it's very unlikely that a camera store would allow anyone to mess with a camera mirror. When I sold cameras, we didn't leave cameras alone with customers unsupervised. BTW, I sold cameras in retail stores about 30 years ago. For the past 25 years, I've shot photos for a living. Cameras don't go bad. They aren't damaged by use. They fail because they're dropped or dunked in water. You can usually see that when you look at the camera. If it looks good, it probably is. Yes, it's technically possible to wear out a camera but I've never seen it happen (even when I was a newspaper photographer). If you're saving more than just a few dollars buying the demo, definitely do it. Better yet, buy a used one and save some serious money. After all, once you buy a camera and start taking photos, you'll have a used camera. |
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I'm looking at the Nikon D3000. There's a good price on a display model. It's probably been handled a lot with ignorant folks fingering the reflex mirror, etc. Display a good deal, or better off paying more for one that hasn't been handled? It wouldn't concern me a bit. I wouldn't give it a second thought. You plan on using the camera, right? ETA: I can't believe how many people are telling you to buy a new one. Hell, I'd go find an actual used one and buy that! Look, electronics either work or they don't. You have the greatest likelihood of getting a bum one the second you pull a fresh one out of the box. If there's going to be a problem. that's likely to be when it turns up. Of course, the chances of that are virtually nil. As for the mirror, it's very unlikely that a camera store would allow anyone to mess with a camera mirror. When I sold cameras, we didn't leave cameras alone with customers unsupervised. BTW, I sold cameras in retail stores about 30 years ago. For the past 25 years, I've shot photos for a living. Cameras don't go bad. They aren't damaged by use. They fail because they're dropped or dunked in water. You can usually see that when you look at the camera. If it looks good, it probably is. Yes, it's technically possible to wear out a camera but I've never seen it happen (even when I was a newspaper photographer). If you're saving more than just a few dollars buying the demo, definitely do it. Better yet, buy a used one and save some serious money. After all, once you buy a camera and start taking photos, you'll have a used camera. Thanks for your input. It's nice to have subject matter experts contribute. If this was a demo unit at a camera store that was handled by camera-savvy folks while supervised, I wouldn't hesitate. The one's I was looking at are from Sam's Club. I tried to fondle a D3000, because I wanted to see the user interface that supposedly coaches people on the settings. The battery was dead and it wouldn't power up. The lens cover was on. A month or so later I was walking past the display again and the lens cover was missing. I was staring at a great big opening with a shiny mirror and I wondered how many times it had been touched and how much crap had floated into the camera body when the floor-scrub machines went by. When Sam's discontinues an item they reduce the price as it sells out. The one that's all the way down the the display model isn't the one that I saw without a lens cover; different store. I contemplated driving over there to look at it and make a determination based on the appearance of THAT particular camera, but I'm not a camera savvy person that can spot red flags like I could with a firearm or a vehicle. Plus, it's likely to also have a run down battery, so I can't even power it up and operate it prior to purchase. If the thread was full of responses like, "those things are bullet proof, clean the mirror and it'll be just fine," it might convince me. The general consensus that a high traffic of the ignorant people spells bad news for a precision device like a camera jives with my gut feel on the whole deal. I have no issues with used stuff that has been reasonably cared for. If there was a good deal on a used, I'd take it. Every DSLR on Craigslist in my area is trying to get retail or above. If I could be convinced that the demo D3000 was a properly functioning unit I'd have to reconsider the D5000, because of a $200 cost differential. Right now it's $450+tax versus $520 delivered. I'm looking at $50 to upgrade. |
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Is it just body only or was the lens on the body. There is no way for people to finger the mirror unless they took the lens off
Even with the body cap off, the sensor is till covered by mirror ( its a SLR ! ) Its the sensor that is a pain to clean ( cost about $50 ) and the part you need to worry about The MTBF for the D3000 shutter is 100,000 . That is lots of shutter actuations. Even if everone who handled it released the shutter it is insignificant in the life of that body I have 3 nikon SLR bodies and they are all poorly taken care off ( dirty, ride around in the trunk without case, used in dirty fab shops etc ) and they keep chugging away Take the money you save towards better lenses The only thinkg the "consumer" Nikon bodies don't do as well as the pro level is being dropped. I dropped my D90 3 times in its life. Last time it peeled the lense mount off the body. The consumer bodies are plastic and not worth repairing. Pro bodies magnesium an can be repaired if this happens I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a demo body |
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Quoted: I didn't know about this. What do you change? Or at least, where do you make the changes? I just went through the menu and didn't see where to change the saturation, etc. settings for images to be saved. Menu -> Shooting menu -> Manage picture control -> Save/Edit -> Standard (or whatever routine you want to shoot with) -> Sharpening and Saturation are both sliders you can adjust to whatever you want. You can save this and make it the default JPEG conversion. |
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Thanks for your input. It's nice to have subject matter experts contribute. If this was a demo unit at a camera store that was handled by camera-savvy folks while supervised, I wouldn't hesitate. The one's I was looking at are from Sam's Club. I tried to fondle a D3000, because I wanted to see the user interface that supposedly coaches people on the settings. The battery was dead and it wouldn't power up. The lens cover was on. A month or so later I was walking past the display again and the lens cover was missing. I was staring at a great big opening with a shiny mirror and I wondered how many times it had been touched and how much crap had floated into the camera body when the floor-scrub machines went by. When Sam's discontinues an item they reduce the price as it sells out. The one that's all the way down the the display model isn't the one that I saw without a lens cover; different store. I contemplated driving over there to look at it and make a determination based on the appearance of THAT particular camera, but I'm not a camera savvy person that can spot red flags like I could with a firearm or a vehicle. Plus, it's likely to also have a run down battery, so I can't even power it up and operate it prior to purchase. If the thread was full of responses like, "those things are bullet proof, clean the mirror and it'll be just fine," it might convince me. The general consensus that a high traffic of the ignorant people spells bad news for a precision device like a camera jives with my gut feel on the whole deal. I have no issues with used stuff that has been reasonably cared for. If there was a good deal on a used, I'd take it. Every DSLR on Craigslist in my area is trying to get retail or above. If I could be convinced that the demo D3000 was a properly functioning unit I'd have to reconsider the D5000, because of a $200 cost differential. Right now it's $450+tax versus $520 delivered. I'm looking at $50 to upgrade. OK, I can understand your reluctance if the thing has been sitting out at Sam's . . . especially if the body cap was off. You'd definitely have to have the sensor cleaned and that would probably eat up whatever discount you could get. BTW, I think the D300 is a great camera. I used one for several years and loved it. Probably the most enjoyable camera I've ever used (and I've owned or used all the pro-level F bodies from the original F through the F4, a couple of different D bodies and a few Leicas). Just a sweet, sweet camera. Have you considered eBay? ETA: Oh, you said D3000. Sorry, I don't know anything about those. It did sort of surprise me that they would have the D300 at Sam's. |
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I didn't know about this. What do you change? Or at least, where do you make the changes? I just went through the menu and didn't see where to change the saturation, etc. settings for images to be saved. Menu -> Shooting menu -> Manage picture control -> Save/Edit -> Standard (or whatever routine you want to shoot with) -> Sharpening and Saturation are both sliders you can adjust to whatever you want. You can save this and make it the default JPEG conversion. Thank you. I'll check into this later. |