Posted: 4/17/2015 11:51:35 AM EDT
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I stumbled across a book of counting cards. I know that there are a ton of books out there about this but have you or anyone you know ever made successfully counted cards and made money?
I kinda a dumb question but I am a 14er. 
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| Lots of people have made $ off casinos by being able to count cards: MIT Blackjack Team. Casinos will ban you if they think you are counting. Ben Affleck was recently "asked" quite strongly to leave a casino after he was suspected of counting cards. From what I understand, counting cards in your head is not technically "illegal", but if you use artifical aids then a person may be guilty of cheating, which can actually be a fairly serious crime. |
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It's possible. It's not that difficult if you're observant.
Casinos tend to frown on it because you skew their odds of taking money from you. Essentially the entire point of going to any casino is to LOSE money. They start to get suspicious/angry when you win and you're likely to get escorted off the premises if you win big, or pressured into gambling it away. |
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Quoted:
I stumbled across a book of counting cards. I know that there are a ton of books out there about this but have you or anyone you know ever made successfully counted cards and made money? I kinda a dumb question but I am a 14er. It's a hard way to make easy money. Even the MIT Blackjack team's haul wasn't that impressive when you consider the number of people involved. You are better off just going to work. |
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Yes, I knew a card counter.
He was successful most of the time, BUT… 1) He said that he only went to the smaller casinos. QUIET is IMPORTANT because of the intense concentration required. So, the larger casinos were out. 2) The smaller casino are even more sensitive about losing money than the larger casinos. So, he fairly quickly got to the point where his favorite casinos would not give him a place at the table because they knew he was too good. I haven't spoken to him lately, but I'm pretty sure he had to just call it quits for at least a while. |
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I worked as a paramedic in Las Vegas for 30 years.
Back in the day, I ran calls on a number of people who had the livin shit beat out of them for counting cards. I am talking about a trip to the trauma center and surgery. Today, you will just be asked to leave. Card counting isn't dependent on the number of decks. |
| Counting the cards is only part of it. Having a bankroll to take advantage of the small increase in odds and to absorb the losses, is a much bigger deal. The MIT group worked in teams and had a group on investors bankrolling them. In its most basic form, one team member camped on a table make small modest bets and counted cards. When the count was in their favor, they would signal another team member who would come in making large bets. |
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My mother was a life master in Bridge, and could count cards with the best of them. She used to go to Vegas a couple times a year to make some money. She never lost. She just played small, but she would always come back with a couple grand. Since she only hit the casinos once or twice, she never got caught.
She was scary good at card games. |
It's still possible in 6 deck shoes, but you'll be pegged as an "advantage player" if you actually manage to make money and banned by most casinos You'll need to make larger bets when you know a count, and doing so will show a pattern. It's the exact sort of things casinos pay people to look for Speed |
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I stumbled across a book of counting cards. I know that there are a ton of books out there about this but have you or anyone you know ever made successfully counted cards and made money? I kinda a dumb question but I am a 14er. It gives you a tiny statistical advantage if you do everything perfectly and it's not a continuously-shuffled game (which most bigger/better casinos are and have been for years). The fabled MIT team had a good system, but the math doesn't work on continuously randomized decks and it takes perfect coordination by smart people to do it. |
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Aren't most blackjack shoes in the 5-7 deck range? Good luck with that
That actually makes no difference. In fact, if you run a system like the MIT people, it only works with a multiple deck shoe where a bunch of hands are played from one shoe. Some smaller casinos run single deck games where they play only one hand at a time and re-shuffle before the next one. All but eliminates card counting. |
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Lots of people have made $ off casinos by being able to count cards: MIT Blackjack Team. Casinos will ban you if they think you are counting. Ben Affleck was recently "asked" quite strongly to leave a casino after he was suspected of counting cards. From what I understand, counting cards in your head is not technically "illegal", but if you use artifical aids then a person may be guilty of cheating, which can actually be a fairly serious crime. It's not illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane. |
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Quoted: I stumbled across a book of counting cards. I know that there are a ton of books out there about this but have you or anyone you know ever made successfully counted cards and made money? I kinda a dumb question but I am a 14er. "Blackjack Trainer" or something. |
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Quoted: That actually makes no difference. In fact, if you run a system like the MIT people, it only works with a multiple deck shoe where a bunch of hands are played from one shoe. Some smaller casinos run single deck games where they play only one hand at a time and re-shuffle before the next one. All but eliminates card counting. Quoted: Quoted: Aren't most blackjack shoes in the 5-7 deck range? Good luck with that That actually makes no difference. In fact, if you run a system like the MIT people, it only works with a multiple deck shoe where a bunch of hands are played from one shoe. Some smaller casinos run single deck games where they play only one hand at a time and re-shuffle before the next one. All but eliminates card counting. |
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Some roulette tables still have miniscule statistical advantages. And sitting down for a hand of poker at the Flamingo immediately after the "Learn how to play poker" class lets out is also another entertaining way to increase your odds. Actually, the last one is a real thing and actually quite hilarious. Since the majority of the people at your table just spent the last hour becoming poker experts together, they think that they are all on the same team, playing against the casino. Since the stakes are low, it takes time, but you can definitely net some decent wins against the self-identifying rubes. But craps is the way to go. Play the pass line at a $5 table, leave a few decent tips and you can get hammered while having a decent amount of fun for pennies on the dollar. |
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Counting the cards is only part of it. Having a bankroll to take advantage of the small increase in odds and to absorb the losses, is a much bigger deal. The MIT group worked in teams and had a group on investors bankrolling them. In its most basic form, one team member camped on a table make small modest bets and counted cards. When the count was in their favor, they would signal another team member who would come in making large bets. Exactly. Just a single guy counting cards is going to be caught pretty quick by the casino counting them themselves and watching the bets. If you are betting bigger when the deck is in your favor and less when it isn't and that is a consistent pattern, they are going to Ben Aflack you. |
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That actually makes no difference. In fact, if you run a system like the MIT people, it only works with a multiple deck shoe where a bunch of hands are played from one shoe. Some smaller casinos run single deck games where they play only one hand at a time and re-shuffle before the next one. All but eliminates card counting. Quoted:
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Aren't most blackjack shoes in the 5-7 deck range? Good luck with that
That actually makes no difference. In fact, if you run a system like the MIT people, it only works with a multiple deck shoe where a bunch of hands are played from one shoe. Some smaller casinos run single deck games where they play only one hand at a time and re-shuffle before the next one. All but eliminates card counting. I've never seen them shuffle after every hand, but I suppose that would be possible, but not very profitable for them. The rely on lots of hands per hour to make money. You used to could go to Vegas and walk into any casino and find a single deck Blackjack table, but you also could go just about anywhere and get a Prime Rib buffet for $1.99.
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Dealers are taught to deal fast, sweep fast and push people into making quick decisions. This leaves less time for card counters to do their thing, especially on a full table. Card counting is not 'memorizing' the cards that have been played. It's a pretty simple formula assigning point values to the cards that are out of the deck, giving you a better understanding of the odds of the card(s) you need being still in the deck. If you can't tally up the cards that are gone, you can't guess what cards are left. |
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Quoted: Counting the cards is only part of it. Having a bankroll to take advantage of the small increase in odds and to absorb the losses, is a much bigger deal. The MIT group worked in teams and had a group on investors bankrolling them. In its most basic form, one team member camped on a table make small modest bets and counted cards. When the count was in their favor, they would signal another team member who would come in making large bets. |
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Counting cards is a method to track whether high or low cards were played. It works best with multiple decks, not one deck and the counter does not memorize each card that was played. Low cards in the deck benefit the dealer because the dealer must stand on 16 and hit on 15.
A lot of high cards in the deck benefit the player because the dealer is more likely to break on 15 and because if the player doubles down, he's more likely to draw a ten. If you play perfect blackjack, you will win 49 of 100 hands. You can't do any better than that. The game is rigged for the house. Most people make lots of mistakes and the house win percentage goes up according to the player's lack of experience. The card counter increases his bets when the card values in the shoe favor him winning the hand. My friend XXX won about $15,000 from the casinos in Atlantic City before they caught him and made him persona non grata. The dealers and the pit bosses know this stuff and they know what it looks like. They also know that a card counter has to be able to play the game properly and you won't attract their interest if you do stupid things like split fives, double down on 15, draw on 18, etc. It took Ron about six months to learn to count. He dealt blackjack to himself until he could give the point value of all the cards on the table with a quick glance so it didn't look like he was concentrating on the cards in everyone else's hands. He had $1,000 for his bank so that if he had a bad run, he didn't run out of money. There were times when he was down $800 before he started winning. There were a couple of times he lost all of it. Mostly he walked away when he was up $500 to $1,000. He went once every three or four weeks. His parents had a house at the Jersey Shore, so he went there for weekends anyway, and Atlantic City wasn't much further to drive. If you live close to a casino, you may get away with it for a while. Atlantic City had seven casinos at the time, so he was also able to split his time between them. This helps because the dealers and pit bosses don't recognize somebody they rarely see. They will eventually figure it out. |
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I've never seen them shuffle after every hand, but I suppose that would be possible, but not very profitable for them. The rely on lots of hands per hour to make money. You used to could go to Vegas and walk into any casino and find a single deck Blackjack table, but you also could go just about anywhere and get a Prime Rib buffet for $1.99. I've seen single deck, shuffle every hand at Caribbean casinos. I can't recall seeing it anywhere else. |
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It's hard for some people to wrap their head around the fact that there a LOTs of people in every casino who are trained and work 40 hours a week for their career, identifying people doing stuff like this.
And they are good at it. This is how they earn their living and they get in trouble if people are getting away with anything. Just like any other job. |
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I stumbled across a book of counting cards. I know that there are a ton of books out there about this but have you or anyone you know ever made successfully counted cards and made money? I kinda a dumb question but I am a 14er. Quick version: Yes I know many people that made a great living from it. Cons: Finding a good casino with good rules that won't bust you. That means don't bother going to AC :) It's a ton of work. You need to put the training time in until you're perfect. You need money! $10k starting bankroll minimum. From there, it'll take months/years to make any real money. Once you build up your bank, finding higher limit games that won't attract attention can be difficult. It's a hard life and a hard way to make a living. It's a ton of work and any fun being in casinos and playing blackjack quickly and permanently goes out the window. If you're interested in learning more, PM me. |
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Quoted: Some roulette tables still have miniscule statistical advantages. And sitting down for a hand of poker at the Flamingo immediately after the "Learn how to play poker" class lets out is also another entertaining way to increase your odds. Actually, the last one is a real thing and actually quite hilarious. Since the majority of the people at your table just spent the last hour becoming poker experts together, they think that they are all on the same team, playing against the casino. Since the stakes are low, it takes time, but you can definitely net some decent wins against the self-identifying rubes. But craps is the way to go. Play the pass line at a $5 table, leave a few decent tips and you can get hammered while having a decent amount of fun for pennies on the dollar.  That would have to be single zero with an "en prison" rule, which I have never, ever seen in my life Regular, American roulette has a 5.26% house edge 
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I did it a couple times. The last time I was escorted out by two very large gentlemen "for my safety" they said. I think I'm still banned from a number of casinos in Wiesbaden. They told me on my way out that I was "no longer welcome to partake in the gambling offered here."
But I can only do single-deck, and anymore those are a rarity, and when those tables are offered, they've actually got people sitting there playing with the casino's money to keep an eye on you. I never knew about the MIT-Method, when I did it I just visualized the cards all laid out on a wall or ceiling. They (the casinos) catch on pretty quickly, and will call for a shuffle. |
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I`ve played a LOT of blackjack in my time. Up to 5K per hand many times. One of the easiest ways to win is to "snapshot" the cards on the table just before the dealers rakes them in. I always considered the cards from the last hand to be a predictor of the next hand. For example if I saw a table FULL of low cards the odds of a higher than normal distribution of high cards would be likely on the next hand. I`m talking 90% or better low cards. That is a rare thing but it DOES happen. Same thing with a table FULL of high cards. The next hand is more likely to have a below normal distribution of high cards. This made it very easy for me to sit at a table making many many regular $50-200 bets for a long period playing "by the book" so that WHEN an exceptional circumstance arose I could take advantage of it. Several times I`ve walked away with over 15K in just a few hours. I think 38K was my biggest night at a casino in Ms. before the hurricane took it out.
I`m retired now and blackjack somewhat bores me hence I rarely go to a casino any more. To many trophy trout, salmon and redfish to chase. |
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I`ve played a LOT of blackjack in my time. Up to 5K per hand many times. One of the easiest ways to win is to "snapshot" the cards on the table just before the dealers rakes them in. I always considered the cards from the last hand to be a predictor of the next hand. For example if I saw a table FULL of low cards the odds of a higher than normal distribution of high cards would be likely on the next hand. I`m talking 90% or better low cards. That is a rare thing but it DOES happen. Same thing with a table FULL of high cards. The next hand is more likely to have a below normal distribution of high cards. This made it very easy for me to sit at a table making many many regular $50-200 bets for a long period playing "by the book" so that WHEN an exceptional circumstance arose I could take advantage of it. Several times I`ve walked away with over 15K in just a few hours. I think 38K was my biggest night at a casino in Ms. before the hurricane took it out. I`m retired now and blackjack somewhat bores me hence I rarely go to a casino any more. To many trophy trout, salmon and redfish to chase. I just figured out how a buddy of mine has won over $30K at least 3 times and one of those was $64K. I watched him take $100 and turn it into something like $3500 or maybe even $5K.I can't rememeber for sure, but I lost my $100 and watched him rake it in till he was playing with $500 chips. |
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They use 6 and 8 deck shoes in most places to foil card counters. You can still do it, but it's just a big pain in the ass, and they kill the shoe with a deck or two unplayed, so you'll only have one or two hands with the advantage. You're better off keeping track of the aces on these kind of tables. Aside from counting cards, the best way to make money playing blackjack is to know when to leave. |
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Quoted: It's still possible in 6 deck shoes, but you'll be pegged as an "advantage player" if you actually manage to make money and banned by most casinos You'll need to make larger bets when you know a count, and doing so will show a pattern. It's the exact sort of things casinos pay people to look for Speed |
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Quoted: Intentionally lose a few times doing stupid shit like splitting tens and they'll think you're just lucky. Quoted: Quoted: It's still possible in 6 deck shoes, but you'll be pegged as an "advantage player" if you actually manage to make money and banned by most casinos You'll need to make larger bets when you know a count, and doing so will show a pattern. It's the exact sort of things casinos pay people to look for Speed Maybe, but I'm guessing the people watching you know how to count cards themselves and probably thought of similar, or even better tricks Speed |
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Intentionally lose a few times doing stupid shit like splitting tens and they'll think you're just lucky. Quoted:
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It's still possible in 6 deck shoes, but you'll be pegged as an "advantage player" if you actually manage to make money and banned by most casinos
You'll need to make larger bets when you know a count, and doing so will show a pattern. It's the exact sort of things casinos pay people to look for
Speed Splitting 10's against a bust card is one of the fastest ways to make money playing blackjack 
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Every casino puts a bunch of decks into the shoe. This makes counting cards much less useful.
I can count cards, it isn't hard if you have a halfway decent memory. But essentially you need an active table so you can count until the numbers are favorable and essentially everywhere they will reshuffle by the time the deck is significantly statistically favorable. The only game you can win with any consistency is poker...and that is of course if you are good at poker not counting cards. |
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Quoted: Splitting 10's against a bust card is one of the fastest ways to make money playing blackjack Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's still possible in 6 deck shoes, but you'll be pegged as an "advantage player" if you actually manage to make money and banned by most casinos You'll need to make larger bets when you know a count, and doing so will show a pattern. It's the exact sort of things casinos pay people to look for Speed Splitting 10's against a bust card is one of the fastest ways to make money playing blackjack |
| Start by learning the basic Blackjack rules for the decks your playing, then you can go from there. I don't know if I ever kept a perfect count, but you can definitely know if the deck is in your favor or not. That's as far as I could get. Plus, I like to drink and there's booze in casinos and hot chicks to look at so...... |