Posted: 4/8/2009 9:58:19 AM EDT
|
So I'm finishing up my freshman year of college as we speak, and am preparing to meet with my adviser today to discuss what major to declare. I've been researching it for a really long time, but I am really at a loss seeing as the computing degrees at my school (Kent) are not all that numerous. I thought I would make a post here asking for some input based on my skills/interests.
I've been leaning towards computer science since it's the one with the best job prospects, plus it seems like you learn the most useful information in that major. The problem is that it looks as though it includes a lot of programming and math. I am O.K. at math, and I really have never dabbled in programming before. It's probably something I could learn if I really wanted to. I have always been in the more working with computers aspect. I love building them, love fixing them (software and hardware), and love working with them and finding applications for them and such. Everything that has to do with working with computer applications and/or hardware I absolutely love. Does a computer science degree only prep you for programming related jobs? Is it a good major to take for all-around computer oriented careers? I would really appreciate some input from you guys, seeing as I have been fumbling around with this decision with no real expert insight for a while. The other main IT major we have here is computer information systems. Thanks a lot for the help! |
| I graduated in '99 with a BS in CS. The things I learned about problem solving, researching, and dedication certainly helped when I entered the IT industry. However, most or all of the subject matter I learned was obsolete from the get-go. In the IT industry, you will always be re-inventing yourself by learning (classes or OTJ) but it's not like you will be carrying anything over from college into the private sector. Certain base concepts - yes, but you will always have to learn the specific "favor" of the concept when you start working on a project. If I can have a do-over, I would pick the business school and get a MIS/CIS degree. I would've gotten a higher GPA, easier classes, more exposure to how the real world interacts, and possibly a minor in business management. I will say though that after your first year in the private sector (assuming you do a good job), it really doesn't matter what's on your resume academic-wise unless you hoping to be a team lead at Google or so. |
|
Quoted:
Are you want to start for a BS, or start with an AS or AAS? If AS or AAS, does your local public community college have an IT major? Something to look at as an option. BS. Although one option is to get a different degree here, and then maybe get an IT one after college. |
|
You sound like you probably would be more interested in an information systems degree. I posted in the other thread where you asked the question, but I'll explain it a bit more here.
CS is not about using computers. It's not about programming computers. It's not about fixing computers. A Computer Science degree is really a deep, esoteric, math degree. Most high-level CS courses are really math courses that are so hard math majors won't take them, so they cleverly disguise them as CS courses. It's the study of algorithms, computation theory, computational cost, etc... Read the wikipedia link for a good synopsis, and imagine your future taking the courses with names like "Fundamentals of Computer Organization" –– where you learn how a microprocessor works all the way down to the gate level (and learn to write the machine code to trigger those gates and explain every detail of how those instructions travel through the microprocessor), "Advanced Data Structures and Algorithms" –– where you learn how to mathematically analyze an algorithm and do comparative studies to determine which ones are faster, "Discrete Structures" –– which I still shudder at, as it's the study of relations, graph theory, complexity of algorithms, etc, "Introduction to theoretical Computer Science" –– where you learn to rigorously define the theory of computation –– again, I still shudder at this course... You get the idea. Plus, you're going to have to take math... lots of math... Calc 1, 2, probably 3, matrix theory, statistics, etc... Mixed in with all that, you will learn some programming. You won't learn mostly programming though. Coding just isn't the focus of a CS degree –– so if programming is all you want to get out of a CS degree, I would recommend not going there. Now –– I will say this: There are many degrees in between hard-core CS and information systems. There's Computer Engineering, which focuses more on applying CS to the real world, software engineering –– more coding than theory, web programming and development, etc.. depends on what your school offers. Any of those might be better fits for you if you don't like math. Too many people go into CS expecting to learn how to write cool games –– that's just not what CS is about. The other thing is that there isn't much market for a guy with a BS in CS anymore. It used to be, you could get your degree and go start working writing code somewhere right away for a couple of years –– now all that's been outsourced to India. You literally just send them the spec for the program you want written and they write it for a tenth of the cost, and probably half the time it would take to develop it in the States. My recommendation for anyone who wants to get into the computer field is to get an Information Systems degree, then follow it up with an MBA. That will give you the skills to work with computers, and the managerial potential to make a good living. Now –– if you're willing to work hard, and want to really broaden your horizons and get out of your comfort zone –– go for a CS degree! It will shape your mind and force you to learn more than you may ever learn otherwise. I'd still suggest following it up with an MBA though –– the jobs just aren't out there for entry level coders anymore. I monitor the market pretty closely, because in a couple of years here I'm going to have to find a real job, and I'm seriously considering changing my major to computer engineering or electrical engineering instead... Just my 2 cents... take it for what it's worth! :) |
|
From the sound of it, you want to do network support. In that arena, other than .GOV type of jobs or very large corporations, no one cares if you have a computer related degree (and even then they will often overlook that part); most everyone wants real world knowledge and experience. Books are a start, but hands-on is how you really learn.
I would suggest getting a degree in Business; learn all you can about the corporate world. Take the computer related classes that you want as electives; maybe minor in it. Also, get a job on campus working in the computer labs as support (or anyplace that can get computers on your resume). Start working on some certifications; they often don't mean a lot, but when you have almost no job history in the field, it is better than nothing and can be required for some jobs. |
|
Joshki and Number21 both gave great advice, although Number21’s advice seems more like your path from your post. I also agree that very good programmers are also very good in math. There is a lot more math involved than you probably realize. Also consider that most programmers (and many other jobs in IT) get on a never ending treadmill of learning and relearning as the technology changes (VB6 to .Net for example.) You pretty much may have to re-learn everything every six years or so. I know several programmers that simply got tired and burned out of learning by their late 40s.
Programmers also seem to have a “knack” for programming that can’t be learned from books or classes. I have a simple test to see if people are wired for programming: Open Excel and place a month and year as integers in two cells (December 2009 would be 12 2009). Place another date in the same format below the first date. Now create a formula that will calculate the number of months between the two dates no matter what dates are entered. No fair using functions like Days360(), DateDiff(), etc. Just use addition, subtraction, multiplication and/or division. There are many ways to do this. Try to make it as short and eloquent as possible. Just remember that now matter how crowded your field is, there is always room for one more if you are really, really good at what you do. Good luck with your career! |
|
Thanks for the replies and great info everyone.
As of now I think that I am going to declare Computer Information Systems as my major, and I will probably get a MBA after college. I think I could learn programming, but from what I am hearing its not just about learning it, it's about all the complicated math..which I really do not enjoy doing. I'm still going to try to learn C++ basics on my own just because it will be useful and interesting knowledge....but I really think CIS is the path for me. If anyone has anything else to say I'd like to hear it. Thanks again. |
FWIW, i am graduating in may with a MIS degree. i've been somewhat surprised with the lack of technical courses i've had, basically one programming class and one database class. i can't do complex math to save my life, so hardcore programming is not for me. i have been working as a systems admin for the last 2 years during school, so going forward i am hoping to get a few mid level certs like CCNP, RHCE, whatever the new MCSE is, etc and work as a systems engineer for a few years while i complete a MBA and try to move into management. jobs are scarce right now, i'm glad i was hired in 2007 
|
|
I have a BBA MIS degree. If I had to do it all over again I would get a BS in CS.
I found out after school that I loved programming. CS majors are what companies look for when they want to hire a programmer. Want to program hardware? CS major. DBA? MIS or CS. I found that the companies that hire MIS are those that have ERP systems: think SAP. Basically, the more technical, the heavier they lean towards CS. Networking is very competitive and most employers focus on certifications rather than degrees. |
|
Quoted:
CS is not about using computers. It's not about programming computers. It's not about fixing computers. A Computer Science degree is really a deep, esoteric, math degree. Most high-level CS courses are really math courses that are so hard math majors won't take them, so they cleverly disguise them as CS courses. +1. I've always said that CS degrees don't teach you how to program; they teach you how to think like a programmer. I was 2 classes away from a math minor when I graduated. If you're considering a CS degree, spend some time studying set theory, first order logic, and data structures. If it doesn't seem like something you would enjoy spending your friday nights drunkenly arguing about with your friends, then something like IS might be a better choice. When I started in CS, there were 90 people in my incoming class. When I graduated, there were 14 of us. |
|
Quoted:
Joshki and Number21 both gave great advice, although Number21’s advice seems more like your path from your post. I also agree that very good programmers are also very good in math. There is a lot more math involved than you probably realize. Also consider that most programmers (and many other jobs in IT) get on a never ending treadmill of learning and relearning as the technology changes (VB6 to .Net for example.) You pretty much may have to re-learn everything every six years or so. I know several programmers that simply got tired and burned out of learning by their late 40s. Programmers also seem to have a “knack” for programming that can’t be learned from books or classes. I have a simple test to see if people are wired for programming: Open Excel and place a month and year as integers in two cells (December 2009 would be 12 2009). Place another date in the same format below the first date. Now create a formula that will calculate the number of months between the two dates no matter what dates are entered. No fair using functions like Days360(), DateDiff(), etc. Just use addition, subtraction, multiplication and/or division. There are many ways to do this. Try to make it as short and eloquent as possible. Just remember that now matter how crowded your field is, there is always room for one more if you are really, really good at what you do. Good luck with your career! Done this before... Need some parameters. Does it need to account for leap years? Does it need to account for when A1>A2 or just when A1<A2? BS in CS from IU. First programming class in college was scheme. This is what the code looks like...fun, huh? It was the suck. (define (add-if-all-numbers lst) |
|
Quoted:
You sound like you probably would be more interested in an information systems degree. I posted in the other thread where you asked the question, but I'll explain it a bit more here. CS is not about using computers. It's not about programming computers. It's not about fixing computers. A Computer Science degree is really a deep, esoteric, math degree. Most high-level CS courses are really math courses that are so hard math majors won't take them, so they cleverly disguise them as CS courses. It's the study of algorithms, computation theory, computational cost, etc... Read the wikipedia link for a good synopsis, and imagine your future taking the courses with names like "Fundamentals of Computer Organization" –– where you learn how a microprocessor works all the way down to the gate level (and learn to write the machine code to trigger those gates and explain every detail of how those instructions travel through the microprocessor), "Advanced Data Structures and Algorithms" –– where you learn how to mathematically analyze an algorithm and do comparative studies to determine which ones are faster, "Discrete Structures" –– which I still shudder at, as it's the study of relations, graph theory, complexity of algorithms, etc, "Introduction to theoretical Computer Science" –– where you learn to rigorously define the theory of computation –– again, I still shudder at this course... You get the idea. Plus, you're going to have to take math... lots of math... Calc 1, 2, probably 3, matrix theory, statistics, etc... Mixed in with all that, you will learn some programming. You won't learn mostly programming though. Coding just isn't the focus of a CS degree –– so if programming is all you want to get out of a CS degree, I would recommend not going there. Now –– I will say this: There are many degrees in between hard-core CS and information systems. There's Computer Engineering, which focuses more on applying CS to the real world, software engineering –– more coding than theory, web programming and development, etc.. depends on what your school offers. Any of those might be better fits for you if you don't like math. Too many people go into CS expecting to learn how to write cool games –– that's just not what CS is about. The other thing is that there isn't much market for a guy with a BS in CS anymore. It used to be, you could get your degree and go start working writing code somewhere right away for a couple of years –– now all that's been outsourced to India. You literally just send them the spec for the program you want written and they write it for a tenth of the cost, and probably half the time it would take to develop it in the States. My recommendation for anyone who wants to get into the computer field is to get an Information Systems degree, then follow it up with an MBA. That will give you the skills to work with computers, and the managerial potential to make a good living. Now –– if you're willing to work hard, and want to really broaden your horizons and get out of your comfort zone –– go for a CS degree! It will shape your mind and force you to learn more than you may ever learn otherwise. I'd still suggest following it up with an MBA though –– the jobs just aren't out there for entry level coders anymore. I monitor the market pretty closely, because in a couple of years here I'm going to have to find a real job, and I'm seriously considering changing my major to computer engineering or electrical engineering instead... Just my 2 cents... take it for what it's worth! :) This. |
|
I've got BS in Information Systems from IU, I believe they call it Information Technology now, it seemed to keep the bosses happy at the time but that was years ago.
The guys I worked with at GM/Delphi Information Systems Dept. had either CS, IS, EE, EET or MBAs degrees. It didn't seem to matter what your degree was as long as you had one and that you were smart enough to learn on the job. Since I retired all that has changed, the CS, IS and MBA guys are out of work and the EE and EET guys have moved on to different jobs. The Electrical Engineering degrees seem to have more employment longivity than the Computer degrees. |