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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/22/2005 3:37:26 PM EDT

Sermons, I just do not get it.

I listened to this pastor give a sermon or at least I tried to. It kind of went like this.

Turn with me now to Mark chapter such and such.

Now turn with me to Luke chapter such and such.

Please turn with me to Hebrews chapter such and such.

The was interspaced with a lot of from the Greek word such and such thrown in for good measure.

All the while people nodding approvingly and taking notes, but no one said anything or asked any questions.

Is this the norm in all Christian churchs?



Link Posted: 8/22/2005 4:58:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 5:01:05 PM EDT by Mr-H]
Did he have a point?

But yes, sermons are usually Bible-based. And only the better preachers (IMO) give the original Greek (or what have you) on certain words. They don't do this for kicks, they usually do this when a certain word is not made clear by the context, or its meaning/significance is not fully captured in the translated word or phrase.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:01:14 PM EDT
Yep, it's called "digging stuff out of the bible so that it'll agree with what your point of view is." and it's on thing that I never did like. They'll pull a verse out here and a verse out there and try and tell ya' that it means such n' such. A cousin of mine and I always use to go round and round about "speaking in Tongues", he'd try and say it was an "angle language" that Christians were suppose to use to pray "in the spirit" and I tried best as I could to explain that it was simply forgine language that was unlearned by the speaker. He'd pull out one verse from an entire passage to prove a point but I'd point out that if he'd bother to read the entire passage he'd get the meaning and that it'd not support his point of view at all. Using this "pull the verse out of the hat" deal can make the bible say just about anything that a person want's it to say. I'm not saying that scripture won't support other scripture, it will, but you've got to read it all.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:16:43 PM EDT
The church i go to we would go threw one book at a time.
The pastor would read anywhere from 5-15 verses, explain some of the greek, maybe say how it applied in Jesus time.
Then explain how we can apply these verse to our on lives today.

the 2 different churches i went to the both pastors were very educated, (they had a college degree and then had to go to seminary wich was another 4 yrs) i just say this because a lot of non believers think Christians are stupid.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:29:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 5:30:43 PM EDT by Mr-H]

Originally Posted By TNFrank:
Yep, it's called "digging stuff out of the bible so that it'll agree with what your point of view is." and it's on thing that I never did like. They'll pull a verse out here and a verse out there and try and tell ya' that it means such n' such. A cousin of mine and I always use to go round and round about "speaking in Tongues", he'd try and say it was an "angle language" that Christians were suppose to use to pray "in the spirit" and I tried best as I could to explain that it was simply forgine language that was unlearned by the speaker. He'd pull out one verse from an entire passage to prove a point but I'd point out that if he'd bother to read the entire passage he'd get the meaning and that it'd not support his point of view at all. Using this "pull the verse out of the hat" deal can make the bible say just about anything that a person want's it to say. I'm not saying that scripture won't support other scripture, it will, but you've got to read it all.



Have you converted in the last 24 hours? Seriously, good post!
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:01:57 PM EDT
I find it disturbing when people just keep saying "amen, amen" to everything the preacher says. Better make sure that what you're amening a whole lot is the truth.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:28:43 PM EDT
Each one is a bit different I guess. The one I go to starts witha bible study then after you can ask questions. Tehn service witht eh sermon. Again you can ask questions.

During the Sermon we pray that we be humbled and learn, having 150 people with their hands up asking questions does bog things down a bit. Many take notes the pastor will make sure you get to jot them down.

Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:32:56 PM EDT
I think what got me was the lack of participation on the part of the congregation.

The Torah is divided into parashas [portions] so it can be read in a one year cycle. This means I know the parasha in advance and are expected to read it in so that I can discuss it intelligently if called upon to do so. You might be called to carry or dress the Torah or recite the opening or closing blessing.

It is not unusual for a Rabbi to field questions during his drash where he gives historical and contemporary perspectives on the parasha.

It seems in the church you are just a captive audience at the Pastors whim.

<­BR>



Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:37:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 6:37:54 PM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By 0ldGuy:
I think what got me was the lack of participation on the part of the congregation.

The Torah is divided into parashas [portions] so it can be read in a one year cycle. This means I know the parasha in advance and are expected to read it in so that I can discuss it intelligently if called upon to do so. You might be called to carry or dress the Torah or recite the opening or closing blessing.

It is not unusual for a Rabbi to field questions during his drash where he gives historical and contemporary perspectives on the parasha.

It seems in the church you are just a captive audience at the Pastors whim.




Again dont base it on all of one church.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:48:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Again dont base it on all of one church.



I won't.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 3:19:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bellona:
I find it disturbing when people just keep saying "amen, amen" to everything the preacher says. Better make sure that what you're amening a whole lot is the truth.



That's right.

One time I was sitting in a Bible class at church and the Pastor leading it was giving references when suddenly he stopped.

He said, "I don't hear any pages turning." Then he pulled out his preaching finger (I ducked because I knew it was loaded! ) and said, "You people have a responsibility to check out what you are being taught. Don't just take my word for it! Use your Bibles!"
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 3:23:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 0ldGuy:
I think what got me was the lack of participation on the part of the congregation.

The Torah is divided into parashas [portions] so it can be read in a one year cycle. This means I know the parasha in advance and are expected to read it in so that I can discuss it intelligently if called upon to do so. You might be called to carry or dress the Torah or recite the opening or closing blessing.

It is not unusual for a Rabbi to field questions during his drash where he gives historical and contemporary perspectives on the parasha.

It seems in the church you are just a captive audience at the Pastors whim.




It's a different format. Usually a Christian church is set up in a teaching (classroom?) format. The sermon (lesson) has a central theme, generally about how we should live.

I will say that too many people in congregations blindly follow, and that's why somebody like Jim Jones can do what he did. Those hundreds of people died with Bibles, but they wouldn't read them for themselves.

I think I would like the idea of a more interactive format. It would move people from a passive to a more active role in the study of the Word.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 4:48:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr-H:

Originally Posted By TNFrank:
Yep, it's called "digging stuff out of the bible so that it'll agree with what your point of view is." and it's on thing that I never did like. They'll pull a verse out here and a verse out there and try and tell ya' that it means such n' such. A cousin of mine and I always use to go round and round about "speaking in Tongues", he'd try and say it was an "angle language" that Christians were suppose to use to pray "in the spirit" and I tried best as I could to explain that it was simply forgine language that was unlearned by the speaker. He'd pull out one verse from an entire passage to prove a point but I'd point out that if he'd bother to read the entire passage he'd get the meaning and that it'd not support his point of view at all. Using this "pull the verse out of the hat" deal can make the bible say just about anything that a person want's it to say. I'm not saying that scripture won't support other scripture, it will, but you've got to read it all.



Have you converted in the last 24 hours? Seriously, good post!



LOL, No, I just make it a point to research and understand the religion that I'm following at the time. It was the inablilty of others in the church to see the truth that helped to push me out of it. I won't sit in a church where everyone believes things that aren't in the bible or that will take one or two verses and use it to "prove" their mis-guided points.
Like I've said before, if I'm going to believe a Myth it'll be the ones that my ancestors believed, i.e., the Norse myths. In Frith and Troth.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 7:34:21 AM EDT
People often spend way to much time watching what others are doing in church instead of being concerned with themselves.

ANd yes, preaching the message of God with Biblical referances is normal in a Christian church.



Similar to going to a rifle training course and having the instructor teach you about AR15 rifles using a field manual as a referance.

Church is basically a spiritual school.

Sgatr15
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 8:01:16 AM EDT

At my church, independent Baptist, regular service is for preaching and teaching by the pastor. Besides a few Amen's he talks you listen. Sunday school, bible studies, and fellowship is where we participate in discussion.

Shok
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 6:17:36 PM EDT
I agree with Qshok. Our Church services (both contemporary and traditional) are based on Biblical stories, teachings, and anecdotes. I take it as something for me to digest in my own way, whether I agree or disagree. Our Sunday School class is one where open discussion is the norm, and topics can be all over the board. It sounds like that type of Sunday School might be more appealing to you. BTW, I'm a Methodist.

Blake <><
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 4:04:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 4:05:17 AM EDT by arowneragain]
Admission: I didn't really read the other replies; I'm just responding directly to the original poster here.



OldGuy,

Sermons aren't really a form of worship in the sense that you're used to thinking of worship in Jewish terms. Yes, it's worship, but in a different way.

Sermons have a twofold purpose beyond worship.

1) Preaching - making a point, repeatedly, by expounding upon scripture. The preacher you watched was probably using several different passages from several different books to back up his point. Us Christians NEED to be preached to - the vast majooity of us are blind to the fact that, yes, the preacher is preaching to US, and yes, we need to take him seriously. That's just the way Christians are - imperfect, but forgiven.

Preaching generallly tries to make a point about a certain pattern of behavior some Christians engage in even though they shouldn't. From a legalistic point of view, it could boil down to 'do this, dont do that'. Preaching is done because we're told to preach in the NT. Romans 10:17 says 'So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God'.
Also, 2 Timothy 4:2 says 'Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine'.


2) Teaching - using scripture to expound upon a principle that will further reveal to us the nature of God, or some spiritual law that we need to understand better. Here, a lack of understanding of whatever is being taught may not be so much of a sin in a believer's life as it is a matter of just being immature or ignorant of a particular Biblical concept. Nobody ever learns everything there is to know about God, as He is revealed to us in the Bible. Teaching is a form of worship, though, as it does glorify the revealation of more of God's Holy nature.


Both preaching and teaching are useful to Christians, though I certainly agree with you that a more interactive form of worship is good. For this reason, I genuinely enjoy simple group Bible study.

Furthermore, both preaching and teaching (again, a sermon could be either or both) are useful for non-believers. We simply never know when God, through the Holy Spirit, will 'work on both ends' and make things 'click' for a non-believer.



<OK, I went and read the rest of the thread..>

As for the non-participation, many protestant churches (I can't speak for others) have 'sunday school' and often a mid-week Bible study session.

Sadly, you would be correct in assuming that for many Christians, the typical sermon is little more than entertainment. And I have heard sermons that I found to be little more than that, myself. However, there are 2 things worth remembering, as a Christian.

1) Though I *should* be able to get something out of any sermon I hear, if I'm finding it boring, I can't complain, because it may be speaking directly to the heart of someone else who is listening. It's not always about me.

2) For those charged with preaching or teaching, you can't be discouraged by those who are there merely for appearance's sake, or for mere entertainment. Scripture makes it clear that there are many false Christians, but we can't go around kicking them out of the church - if we go off stomping out the tares, as Adrian Rogers recently said, we'll often inadvertently stomp out some wheat. Also, we're told in the Bible that some plant, some water, some harvest - you may preach to someone for years and nothing ever 'click', until they're listening to another preacher or maybe involved in some everyday event when things 'click' for them. Its humbling for me to think of the number of people who prayed for me, taught me, tried to reach out to me, tried to set an example for me, only to have things 'click' under a rather odd set of circumstances nowhere near a church building.

Anyway, that's my take on preaching. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:11:53 PM EDT
Mormons have 3 meetings on Sunday. The Sacrament meeting. Which communion is taken (bread and water) and then sermons from members of the congregation. Usually the topic is assigned from the Bishop(pastor). Then a Sunday school class. Classes on scripture from The 4 cannon of the church that rotates on an annual basis. Old test one year new the next,Book of Mormon the next etc. Then a Priesthood meeting for men and a meeting for the women.

So its not the same every week.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:56:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 6:48:36 AM EDT by Shane333]

Originally Posted By 1cheapshot:
Mormons have 3 meetings on Sunday. The Sacrament meeting. Which communion is taken (bread and water) and then sermons from members of the congregation. Usually the topic is assigned from the Bishop(pastor). Then a Sunday school class. Classes on scripture from The 4 cannon of the church that rotates on an annual basis. Old test one year new the next,Book of Mormon the next etc. Then a Priesthood meeting for men and a meeting for the women.

So its not the same every week.



Yup. One hour of talks/sermons, one hour of general sunday school discussion, and one hour of priesthood/relief society discussion.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:01:08 PM EDT
This is pretty normal during a Sunday morning service and is to be expected, really. It is one way communication - from the pastor to the congregation. It's not unlike a large classroom with alot of material to cover and little time to do it. Congregations and students alike follow along as best they can - taking notes and independantly studying difficult concepts afterwards. Excessive two-way dialog would be a hinderance to others. Students want to get to their next class or go home. The teacher is bound by time constraints. Pastors and members of the Church are bound by the same limitations.

In school, some students form study groups. Not suprisingly, church members to the same thing and for the same reasons. Teachers make time for struggling students after class and during the week. Again as one might expect, Pastors do the same.

Does this help?
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