[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Call the NRA - Demand Due Process (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/16/2016 9:51:42 AM EDT
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I just got off the phone with NRA-ILA.
The NRA is supporting legislation that creates a "No Gun List" - my words not theirs' - that is similar to the No Fly List. The representative I spoke with couldn't say for certain if the peson who is subject to the investigation would be notified they are being put on the "No Gun List" just that it would be a judge making the decision. I don't see this as acceptable. Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights. |
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I just got off the phone with NRA-ILA. The NRA is supporting legislation that creates a "No Gun List" - my words not theirs' - that is similar to the No Fly List. The representative I spoke with couldn't say for certain if the peson who is subject to the investigation would be notified they are being put on the "No Gun List" just that it would be a judge making the decision. I don't see this as acceptable. Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights. NRA statement by Chris Cox: " Quoted:
I just got off the phone with NRA-ILA. The NRA is supporting legislation that creates a "No Gun List" - my words not theirs' - that is similar to the No Fly List. The representative I spoke with couldn't say for certain if the peson who is subject to the investigation would be notified they are being put on the "No Gun List" just that it would be a judge making the decision. I don't see this as acceptable. Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights. NRA statement by Chris Cox: "We are happy to meet with Donald Trump. The NRA's position on this issue has not changed. The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing. If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist. At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed. That has been the position of Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) and a majority of the U.S. Senate. Sadly, President Obama and his allies would prefer to play politics with this issue." |
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NRA statement by Chris Cox: "...At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed." And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. |
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And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. Quoted:
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NRA statement by Chris Cox: "...At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed." And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. I am sure the process for relief will be timely and without cost. Umm, yeah, sure it will. Isn't there a relief process in place for felons who have completed their sentence to petition for restoration of rights too? Doesn't our government year after year deny funding for that process? My bet is similar will happen here. I wonder how many people are on this list. I know there have been some pretty high profile folks that wound up on it for seemingly no reason. Although Ted Kennedy being on it at one point is pretty damn funny. |
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And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. Quoted:
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NRA statement by Chris Cox: "...At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed." And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. But your original post stated: "Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights." So what specifically are you suggesting????? |
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NRA statement by Chris Cox: " NRA statement by Chris Cox: "We are happy to meet with Donald Trump. The NRA's position on this issue has not changed. The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing. If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist. At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed. That has been the position of Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) and a majority of the U.S. Senate. Sadly, President Obama and his allies would prefer to play politics with this issue." Quoted:
Quoted:
I just got off the phone with NRA-ILA. The NRA is supporting legislation that creates a "No Gun List" - my words not theirs' - that is similar to the No Fly List. The representative I spoke with couldn't say for certain if the peson who is subject to the investigation would be notified they are being put on the "No Gun List" just that it would be a judge making the decision. I don't see this as acceptable. Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights. NRA statement by Chris Cox: " Quoted:
I just got off the phone with NRA-ILA. The NRA is supporting legislation that creates a "No Gun List" - my words not theirs' - that is similar to the No Fly List. The representative I spoke with couldn't say for certain if the peson who is subject to the investigation would be notified they are being put on the "No Gun List" just that it would be a judge making the decision. I don't see this as acceptable. Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights. NRA statement by Chris Cox: "We are happy to meet with Donald Trump. The NRA's position on this issue has not changed. The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing. If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist. At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed. That has been the position of Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) and a majority of the U.S. Senate. Sadly, President Obama and his allies would prefer to play politics with this issue." I do think that many people are missing that part of the NRA's statement. At the same time, I do also think that they would have been better served if they were more clear and forceful, for example by phrasing it "must be put in place" instead of "should be put in place". |
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Write it down guys. Before long, membership on a website such as this one will be reason enough for them to keep you on that list. It's only a matter of time. It won't be used as a partisan political tool. Our government would never do that (cough, IRS and conservative groups) |
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Or...
call the NRA and demand they amend the watchlist provisions to the Hearing Protection Act Thread about it here |
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I called them yesterday to explain how that statement will come back to bite them. By the end of it, the guy I spoke to was agreeing that it could be taken out of context and used for nefarious purposes.
This is the only portion of that statement which will be heard or repeated. The rest is a dead letter in the realm of political maneuvering. The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and [have] the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing. We will hear that from the usual suspects, I guarantee it. "Even the NRA agrees with these common-sense measures." They need to release a clarification statement ASAP that says "The denial of rights without due process in a court of law is repugnant and unconstitutional, and the NRA refuses to endorse any such measures. Suspected terrorists should be aggressively investigated and the FBI should file formal charges and prove their case in court prior to any restriction of rights." |
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But your original post stated: "Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights." So what specifically are you suggesting????? Quoted:
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NRA statement by Chris Cox: "...At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed." And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. But your original post stated: "Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights." So what specifically are you suggesting????? He is suggesting (correctly) that due process requires a charge, conviction or adjudication, and legal defense in a court of law. Not secret lists made by a government that supports jihadists in Syria and hates your guts. ETA: Waiting on hold for 11 mins so far. Tried 2nd time 17 min hold, no answer. Sent an email. |
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I called them yesterday to explain how that statement will come back to bite them. By the end of it, the guy I spoke to was agreeing that it could be taken out of context and used for nefarious purposes. This is the only portion of that statement which will be heard or repeated. The rest is a dead letter in the realm of political maneuvering. We will hear that from the usual suspects, I guarantee it. "Even the NRA agrees with these common-sense measures." They need to release a clarification statement ASAP that says "The denial of rights without due process in a court of law is repugnant and unconstitutional, and the NRA refuses to endorse any such measures. Suspected terrorists should be aggressively investigated and the FBI should file formal charges and prove their case in court prior to any restriction of rights." Quoted:
I called them yesterday to explain how that statement will come back to bite them. By the end of it, the guy I spoke to was agreeing that it could be taken out of context and used for nefarious purposes. This is the only portion of that statement which will be heard or repeated. The rest is a dead letter in the realm of political maneuvering. The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and [have] the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing. We will hear that from the usual suspects, I guarantee it. "Even the NRA agrees with these common-sense measures." They need to release a clarification statement ASAP that says "The denial of rights without due process in a court of law is repugnant and unconstitutional, and the NRA refuses to endorse any such measures. Suspected terrorists should be aggressively investigated and the FBI should file formal charges and prove their case in court prior to any restriction of rights." Well said!! |
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But your original post stated: "Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights." So what specifically are you suggesting????? Quoted:
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NRA statement by Chris Cox: "...At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed." And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. But your original post stated: "Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights." So what specifically are you suggesting????? The NRA is saying that the "due process" comes when I can try to be removed from the list. I am saying that before I or you or anyone else is put on a "No Gun List" that the person be informed and allowed to confront the accuser in court. The NRA's position allows for the government to take away your rights and forces you to fight to get them back. |
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The NRA is saying that the "due process" comes when the can try to be removed from the list. I am saying that before I or you or anyone else is put on a "No Gun List" that the person be informed and allowed to confront the accuser in court. The NRA's position allows for the government to take away your rights and forces you to fight to get them back. Quoted:
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NRA statement by Chris Cox: "...At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed." And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. But your original post stated: "Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights." So what specifically are you suggesting????? The NRA is saying that the "due process" comes when the can try to be removed from the list. I am saying that before I or you or anyone else is put on a "No Gun List" that the person be informed and allowed to confront the accuser in court. The NRA's position allows for the government to take away your rights and forces you to fight to get them back. I see your point, and I agree. Maybe the NRA should have stuck with their original stance and not even weighed in on this! |
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There is no guarantee that a due process appeal will make it into a final bill. There is also no guarantee that an appeal process would not be defunded or removed later. There is a guarantee that the NRA needs new leadership and a house cleaning of the BoD. Wayne is a political creature and is not a 2ndA absolutist. |
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But your original post stated: "Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights." So what specifically are you suggesting????? Quoted:
Quoted:
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NRA statement by Chris Cox: "...At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed." And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. But your original post stated: "Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights." So what specifically are you suggesting????? I think the key word there is the one in blue. It is not sufficient for "due process" to consist of being permitted to hire a lawyer to file suit after the fact, and engage in an extended and unavoidably expensive process to maybe get your rights restored. The concept of due process is inextricably linked to the ability to challenge government action against you before it removes your liberties, not after. |
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"...At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans ..." May fuck be upon Chris Cox. SHOULD BE? so if that does not happen you just throw up your hands and say "we tried"? And even worse, ALLOW? You mean the government MAY let us do something to prove our innocence - AFTER the fact? Fuck that. |
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Why would the NRA put out a statement that is completely ass backwards in its so called "due process"? They have lawyers out the ass and probably more experience than any other organization when it comes to protecting the 2A.
It sure does sound like they are compromising to me. I doubt any number of calls will change their stance on this, they've already gone public. But we will see. |
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And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. Quoted:
Quoted:
NRA statement by Chris Cox: "...At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed." And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. |
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NRA statement by Chris Cox: "...At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed." And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. Preach it Layer60! |
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But your original post stated: "Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights." So what specifically are you suggesting????? Quoted:
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NRA statement by Chris Cox: "...At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed." And this is the problem. It is not due process if you are forced to prove yourself innocent after your rights have been revoked. But your original post stated: "Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights." So what specifically are you suggesting????? How about the government needing to show probable cause |
I am a somewhat new gun owner. I have always heard about the NRA being weak on ar-15s, a group of fuds that caved on the Hughes amendment. I looked past that and still supported them. Now they are supporting a secret government list that can ban anyone from buying guns for any reason. How many want to bet good red blooded Americans are the ones who will end up on that list and not the jihad hadjis that should go on it. I am very disappointed in the NRA 
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I just got off the phone with NRA-ILA. The NRA is supporting legislation that creates a "No Gun List" - my words not theirs' - that is similar to the No Fly List. The representative I spoke with couldn't say for certain if the peson who is subject to the investigation would be notified they are being put on the "No Gun List" just that it would be a judge making the decision. I don't see this as acceptable. Please call the NRA-ILA 1-800-672-3888 and let them know Americans need due process before being stripped of their Constitutional rights. they played into the domestic abuse farce....so why wouldn't they play into the phony terrorist watch list farce....Please don't take my Purr Atzzi A Way... |
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What a shitty political year. The NRA, the Dems, and the Republicans are all fucking gun owners while the libertarians VP candidate is an anti-gunner as well. Fuck them all. It isn't going to get better at the federal level. Keep your local free state free by pushing/voting in the state races even if you're both the #NeverTrump and FHRC camps. |
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I am a somewhat new gun owner. I have always heard about the NRA being weak on ar-15s, a group of fuds that caved on the Hughes amendment. I looked past that and still supported them. Now they are supporting a secret government list that can ban anyone from buying guns for any reason. How many want to bet good red blooded Americans are the ones who will end up on that list and not the jihad hadjis that should go on it. I am very disappointed in the NRA There are plenty of stories of how they used to compromise, and the 94 AWB is what ended up changing the inner makeup of the NRA from the fudds and LE (like the TX sheriff who was a board member and anti-AR for decades). They're still the best thing we have going because of numbers and influence. The left loves to say they control the senate, too... with all we heard yesterday, this should be easy if we can just get them to lean on people - and at least keep the Republicans in line. They only go weak if we let them go weak. Ultimately they're more responsive to us than government is, because the NRA can't tax you into being a member. |
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There are plenty of stories of how they used to compromise, and the 94 AWB is what ended up changing the inner makeup of the NRA from the fudds and LE (like the TX sheriff who was a board member and anti-AR for decades). They're still the best thing we have going because of numbers and influence. The left loves to say they control the senate, too... with all we heard yesterday, this should be easy if we can just get them to lean on people - and at least keep the Republicans in line. They only go weak if we let them go weak. Ultimately they're more responsive to us than government is, because the NRA can't tax you into being a member. Quoted:
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I am a somewhat new gun owner. I have always heard about the NRA being weak on ar-15s, a group of fuds that caved on the Hughes amendment. I looked past that and still supported them. Now they are supporting a secret government list that can ban anyone from buying guns for any reason. How many want to bet good red blooded Americans are the ones who will end up on that list and not the jihad hadjis that should go on it. I am very disappointed in the NRA There are plenty of stories of how they used to compromise, and the 94 AWB is what ended up changing the inner makeup of the NRA from the fudds and LE (like the TX sheriff who was a board member and anti-AR for decades). They're still the best thing we have going because of numbers and influence. The left loves to say they control the senate, too... with all we heard yesterday, this should be easy if we can just get them to lean on people - and at least keep the Republicans in line. They only go weak if we let them go weak. Ultimately they're more responsive to us than government is, because the NRA can't tax you into being a member. The elite will always sell out their supporters at the bottom levels first....thats the way it has been since the first cave dwellers formed pacts and allegiances.... Nevertheless you are right....the NRA is pretty much all we got + GOA.... The day my fellow combat vet friends from Vietnam (who have no criminal history) or my nephews (with no criminal records) combat veterans from the war in Afghanistan and Iraq go on that list...the NRA will loose my support. |
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OK that was a worthless phone call. Foreign person connects me to Scott Jones voicemail at 703 267 1141. He is the assistant to Chris Cox. "They are all in a meeting" of course they are. So the original number in this thread gets you to somebody with an accent, who will try to fend you off. And when you stick to your guns you get the number above. This person will supposedly talk to you about the NRA stance. Of course they have to be out of a meeting for that to take place. Enjoy. |
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OK that was a worthless phone call. Foreign person connects me to Scott Jones voicemail at 703 267 1141. He is the assistant to Chris Cox. "They are all in a meeting" of course they are. So the original number in this thread gets you to somebody with an accent, who will try to fend you off. And when you stick to your guns you get the number above. This person will supposedly talk to you about the NRA stance. Of course they have to be out of a meeting for that to take place. Enjoy. Thanks for another number. This is what I got: "Due to heavy calling we cannot connect your call at this time." I will keep trying. |
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Give the NRA some credit. They are working hard to fight this, and have been advising Trump on it. I just got this alert from the NRA-ILA:
The NRA has just learned that Senators Schumer, Feinstein and other anti-gun elected officials are going to offer several anti-gun bills and amendments this week in the U.S. Congress, possibly as soon as today!
These measures are wide-ranging and include an attempt to reinstate the failed federal ban on semi-automatic firearms, commonly referred to as the “assault weapons ban.” It doesn’t matter that the Clinton gun ban did nothing to reduce crime. This is about YOUR freedoms and YOUR Right to Keep and Bear Arms. But it doesn’t stop there. In fact, one amendment will attempt to strip the Second Amendment Rights from those on secret government lists while another could lead to federal registration of all gun owners. They're also planning to push for increased federal funding of anti-gun research. We must defeat every one of these anti-gun proposals. What’s obvious is that many who want to destroy our firearm freedoms are using the terrorist attack in Orlando to push their anti-gun agenda. They’d rather blame you as a law-abiding gun owner than make Obama answer for his failures in the global war on terror. We can’t let them succeed in this depraved attempt to politicize a tragedy so they can destroy our freedoms. Please contact your U.S. Representative and U.S. Senators immediately and let them know you oppose any new gun control measures. You can call your lawmakers at 202-225-3121 or click the “Take Action” button below. |
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Quoted: Thanks for another number. This is what I got: "Due to heavy calling we cannot connect your call at this time." I will keep trying. Quoted: Quoted: OK that was a worthless phone call. Foreign person connects me to Scott Jones voicemail at 703 267 1141. He is the assistant to Chris Cox. "They are all in a meeting" of course they are. So the original number in this thread gets you to somebody with an accent, who will try to fend you off. And when you stick to your guns you get the number above. This person will supposedly talk to you about the NRA stance. Of course they have to be out of a meeting for that to take place. Enjoy. Thanks for another number. This is what I got: "Due to heavy calling we cannot connect your call at this time." I will keep trying. |
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LOL, all circuits are busy now. Please try again later. Quoted:
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OK that was a worthless phone call. Foreign person connects me to Scott Jones voicemail at 703 267 1141. He is the assistant to Chris Cox. "They are all in a meeting" of course they are. So the original number in this thread gets you to somebody with an accent, who will try to fend you off. And when you stick to your guns you get the number above. This person will supposedly talk to you about the NRA stance. Of course they have to be out of a meeting for that to take place. Enjoy. Thanks for another number. This is what I got: "Due to heavy calling we cannot connect your call at this time." I will keep trying. Keep trying, I just got through. Make your statement short and to the point so they can receive many more calls rather than listen to one rant. |
| I am a Endowment NRA member. I waited on hold with ILA for around 20 minutes and encouraged them to reconsider this push for no fly gun banning. The gentleman listened, but he assured me a judge unilaterally putting you on a list and reviewing that within three days is due process. I told him being charged and convicted of a felony was due process. He was not deterred. |