Posted: 6/23/2005 2:52:50 AM EDT
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So, I went to Best Buy today, and this guy thought I cut him off in traffic. He pulls into the BB parking lot behind me, flipping me off, stares me down as he walks into the store (and tripping on the curb he didnt see b/c he was trying to intimidate me), etc. Then, he's waiting for me right inside the store. Immediately gets in my face, yelling f-ing this, f-ing that, he's gonna kick my a**, I'm a punk, I endangered his life... really going overboard. This goes on for a minute or two (yay Best Buy Security Team!!!) I finally am able to walk away from him, all the while telling him to go away. Long story short, he basically follows me around the store for the next 20 minutes, then obviously waits for me near the front door, presumably to confront me again in the lot. Eventually, the managers did something to get him to pull his car to the front (load something into his car I think), so I left. My questions are: 1) If this guy did in fact wait for me in the lot and come over to my car with something nasty like a bat or metal pipe or something, would I be in the right to draw my CCW if I gave him ample warnings, told him to stop where he was, tell him I was armed, etc??? 2) If I drew my CCW, could there possibly be an issue with the amount of people in proximity to me? Not if I fired it, but if I drew it, could a case be made against me? For the record, I do not yet have my CCW permit, so my G23 was not with me, and I assume some of this will be answered when I do get the permit, but I am just curious to see what guys on this board think. Sorry for the long post, but this was really bizarre and definitely solidified my decision to get my CCW. This guy was acting pretty crazy and judging by his and his wife's/girlfriend's/whore-of-the-week's appearance, I'm sure he's seen the inside of a jail cell. And also, with what actually happened, I certainly would not have even considered drawing a CCW if I had it with me, even if he approached me outside, only if he was obviously armed or something. Sorry for the ramble, thanks for everyone's time, and I'm spent. |
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This will depend on lots of factors: - What state, city/town it happens in? - Particular state laws on self-protection? - Local politics . . . if your DA is aspiring to higher office and is anti-RKBA you'd be toast! If he's pro-self-protection, you'd be OK. - Proximity of others if you were to shoot? Only time you can legally draw a gun is when you are justified in using it, so if you WERE to use it (even if you didn't) and it would endanger others, you could be prosecuted. - etc. In other words, there is no pat answer to this question. For the case in point, once inside the store I would have called the local PD and filed a complaint of harassment, requesting they respond to the store. That's what cell phones are good for. |
| I am in Tucson, AZ. I understand there is no definite answer, I just was curious about the opinions of some people here. I do kinda wish I had called the Police or had the store's security do so. The area that is fuzzy for me is if I was entirely justified to draw and possibly even use it, but there were a lot of bystanders, would I be in trouble? Could one of them prosecute if they felt endangered? I know these are a lot of sorta pointless 'what-ifs' but, again, I'm just looking for some informed opinions. Thanks again. |
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My understanding (from my CCW class 2 years ago) FOR LA was that the use of deadly force is sanctioned when there is REASONABLE CONCERN for life & limb (property is way too grey for this example). The problem is that this too is a bit foggy. A 180 pound man threatens my life and advances in a Wally World parking lot before the cameras... I withdraw pistol and warn him to leave. He advances still... I aim it dead center at his chest and shout my final warning. He advances and chest cavity becomes Hamburger Helper. Was this reasonable apprehension that my life was in danger? It may be argueable seing how we are proportionately similar and he was unarmed. Make me a 120 pound woman or put a baseball bat in his hand and the dynamic changes radically. On major liability of CCW is the REQUIREMENT to avoid confrontation at ALL TIMES possible even at the cost of eating shit. Once you cannot avoid the altercation I would sanction the brandishment and (if necessary) subsequent use of deadly force should confrontation escalate (BUT YOUR STATE LAWS MIGHT STILL HOLD YOU LIABLE). The problem with an unarmed man who poses any physical threat is that in the ensuing scuffle he might discover my CCW while grappling and turn it against me. Should diplomacy break down completely (meaning you calmy try to walk off in the midst of "you're a pussy" jeers, stating "Look, I don't want any trouble, I'm just going to leave you alone") I would first brandish the pistol with the muzzle pointed downward if the distance between the two of you allows it. If distance doesn't allow it or things escalate I would have it to the center mass while loudly threatening my willingness to use the weapon to "DEFEND MYSELF" should he not leave, followed by the use of deadly force if all else fails. Actually having used deadly force once in my life with my CCW, I have a free pointer for you... If the motherfuckerfucker is running away from you while doing a mag dump from behind his back in your general direction, you should be more than welcome to ice the bastard with a shot to his back. |
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Learn how to drive man!!!! J/K As I understand the law from my AZ. CCW class two years ago . . . you would have been wrong to draw your weapon there. You should have called the cops right away if the guy is acting and threatening you like that. . . does he deserve to get shot??? Maybe. . . The main thing in AZ. is that you HAVE TO PROVE YOUR LIFE WAS IN DANGER. If you are a 90lb woman well you can prove your scared for your life pretty easily. If he produces any kind of weapon . . you can prove your life was in danger . . . And the main thing I took away from my class was the immortal words of my teacher . . . "If he's worth shooting once, he's worth shooting twice!" Good luck with your classes, they will teach you a lot about scenarios and the law. . . . make sure you pay close attention to ALL of it. |
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Now if it was October 2005 and you are in Florida the law has changed and you have the right to defend not retreat if you feel that your life is danger. Mich is trying to pass the same law. It also says that if its a justified shooting, no one can sue you for the loss of the loser in a civil suit. Thats the way it should be!! |