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Posted: 2/13/2011 11:41:28 AM EST
I recently started believing in Christianity, and have started reading the bible.
I came across something that didn't make sense and I have a question about it.
I forget the exact verse, but it was in Mathew. I'll have to paraphrase,
but basically it was Jesus saying that he would return to earth before the generation he was talking to had died, and that some
of the people he was talking to would still be alive when he returned.
How do my fellow Christians rationalize this?
Is it a bad translation, hidden meaning, or what?
Thanks
Link Posted: 2/13/2011 12:04:54 PM EST
not sure what verse - if you could post it, we'd be better able to address it directly.

could He have been talking about when He came back after the crucifixion? He did appear for a time before rising up in the ascension. (Luke 24)
Link Posted: 2/13/2011 12:10:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/13/2011 12:15:10 PM EST by Wyzardd]
Do you mean Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and/or Luke 21:32?

NIV because that's what I had bookmarked:
I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

King James -

Matthew 24

1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Link Posted: 2/13/2011 12:15:43 PM EST
Part of the problem is, what did he mean by "these things"? Lots of things in the Bible at first examination seem to be contradictory, but with the proper context and up-to-date translation, the meaning can often be found. In several other passages Jesus talks about his followers coming to him in heaven after their deaths, and several other passages that would at first glance seem to contradict this passage you refer to.

My best advice to you is to find a good Bible-believing church with knowledgeable teachers that can instruct you in the Word. I've been a Christian for 54 years and I'm still learning things from the Bible!
Link Posted: 2/13/2011 12:19:31 PM EST
I found one of them:
Mathew 17:28 And I tell you the truth, some standing here right now will not die before they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom
Link Posted: 2/13/2011 12:40:00 PM EST
34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
this was the other one, thanks for finding it
Link Posted: 2/13/2011 1:56:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/13/2011 2:03:45 PM EST by blackhawk400]
http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/was-jesus-wrong-about-his-second-coming.html


Maybe this will help a bit. As a christian, this verse (and others like it) has confused me.

God has a weird way of revealing things to us. The more you seek him the funnier his ways seem.
Link Posted: 2/13/2011 2:05:36 PM EST
Tag. Im really glad we have this sub forum
Link Posted: 2/13/2011 2:08:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By blackhawk400:
http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/was-jesus-wrong-about-his-second-coming.html


Maybe this will help a bit. As a christian, this verse (and others like it) has confused me.

God has a weird way of revealing things to us. The more you seek him the funnier his ways seem.


Thank you, this is just what I was looking for
Link Posted: 2/13/2011 3:08:47 PM EST
The following quotes are from the RSV.

Matthew 24: Jesus spoke to his disciples concerning a great tribulation, and signs of his return. In 24:34, speaking to the people around him, he said: "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place."

Matthew 10: Jesus spoke about how to accomplish the preaching work. He said to proclaim that "the kingdom of Heaven is at hand." And in 10:23, he said: "When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel, before the Son of man comes."

Mark 9:1: "...Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

Some have tried to re-interpret these verses in various ways, claiming they mean something besides the obvious. For example, some have claimed that "the kingdom of God come with power" does not refer to Jesus' second coming. But in Luke 21:31-32, Jesus spoke of various signs of the end: "So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place." To Jesus, the coming of "the kingdom of God" was clearly equivalent to all having "taken place".

A belief that Jesus' return was imminent was also shared by all of the apostles. Their belief was evidently based on Jesus' own words as described above. The apostles wrote letters to Christian communities, which often refer to the time being short, or the end being near.

In 1 Corinthians 7:26 the apostle Paul gave his advice concerning marriage "in view of the impending distress". He went on to write: "the appointed time has grown very short; from now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none." (7:29) (Personally, I don't know many married Christians who live as though they had no wife.)

Paul made reference to some "punishments" of early Hebrews in 1 Cor. 10. He wrote: "Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come."

The writer of the epistles of Peter also believed that time was short. In 1 Peter 4:7 he wrote: "The end of all things is at hand; therefore keep sane and sober for your prayers." Interestingly, in 2 Peter 3 the writer went to some lengths to explain why God seemed so slow in bringing about that end.

On the so-called "Day of Pentecost" (Acts 2), Jesus' disciples supposedly began speaking in tongues in Jerusalem. The apostle Peter spoke of this as being to fulfill a prophecy: "And in the last days it shall be, God declares...". But clearly, this Day of Pentecost was not the time of the last days.

The writer of 1 John 2:18: "Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour."

And we still wait ......
Link Posted: 2/13/2011 3:55:42 PM EST
This is one of those passages that many folks find hard to understand and many other folk try to use to refute Jesus as truth....after all if he was wrong on one thing he can't be counted on as "The Truth."

So here is the thing regarding Mathew 24 vs 34
"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place"

If you read over the entire chapter clearly Jesus is describing something cataclysmic and global changing in nature....I.e events leading up to the end of the age (Time as we know it).

One commentary puts it this way;

"It cannot be the generation of the disciples, because they never saw Jesus return in glory as described in Matthew 24:30. It is undoubtedly the generation that sees these signs. These events and Jesus’ return won’t be on some 1,000-year timetable, but will happen in succession."

"There will arise catastrophes and persecutions, but those in themselves are not the sign of the end.
There will arise a pivotal sign: the abomination of desolation.
When the abomination of desolation appears, there are warnings to Israel to flee after the abomination.
On the heels of the abomination of desolation comes great tribulation, and cosmic disturbances.
In culmination, Jesus Christ will return in glory to the earth."

In terms we might all understand,
lets just say that the NRA published an article telling its members just how a national ban on all firearms ownership will take place.
They would point to Tragic Events of violence, Liberal Control of American Government, International Legislation on small arms adopted buy Americas ect ect...
They could say that when you see all of these events unfolding be ready for the unavoidable surrendering of all 2nd amendment rights.
Now what their not saying is that everyone reading the article upon publication will see those events in there lifetime.
But what they are saying is that the generation that does see all of these event unfold can most assuredly count on having their Constitutional rights taken away.

Link Posted: 2/13/2011 4:22:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/13/2011 4:24:15 PM EST by T1NMAN]
One other thing man,
As you study the Bible keep in mind while Truth is simple (Gods Redemption for sinners through theatonement of Jesus on Cross) there is much more to the Bible.
Many men have spent their entire lives in its study and at the end make statements that they feel as if they have only begun to search its Treasure.
This is what makes the Bible more than just a simple book...but the word of God.
It not only speaks to Entire Nations but to the individual heart.
It Challenged the Violent Religious establishments of The Dark ages while confronting the Deceptive New Age Religions of Today.
It is as relevant and timeless today as it was 1800 years ago.

Ephesians chapter six refers to the Bible as "and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."
It is a weapon in the truest sense of the word in that alters History, changes lives and pierces the heart.
As you read not only Mat 24 but further into the New Test you will see Jesus and the Apostles warning us that there will be many evil men...wolves disguised as lambs who wish to deceive people by twisting the scriptures.

The goal of the enemy is to find men like yourself who have turned their lives over to Jesus Christ....and to cause them to fumble and become bogged down in complex texts and debate that does little to change lives.

What you must do is drive a marking stake into the absolute Truth of Jesus Christ and who he claimed to be...what his message is to sinners.
One you have done that as you begin to wade into the Scriptures and begin sharpening your spiritual sword never loss sight of that basic truth that marker of Gods Redemption for sinners.
Keep looking at the Cross in Faith even when we study fact.
There are many question found in the Bible that men have pondered and debated over for centuries but the answer to never loose sight of is The Cross.

Link Posted: 2/13/2011 4:57:33 PM EST
Thanks T1NMAN, what you posted is awesome and really helpful
Link Posted: 2/16/2011 3:54:38 PM EST
This idea is mentioned throughout the New Testament. Jesus was obviously mistaken.
Link Posted: 2/18/2011 7:27:48 AM EST
http://www.studylight.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=mt&chapter=024

This commentary gives insight into the prophecy regarding the destruction of the Jewish Temple which Jesus gave in Matthew 24. It also speaks to the double significance of prophetic language.

Bear in mind that in the Bible when the apostles speak of Jesus' imminent return they aren't speaking literally, rather they are echoing His instruction from:

Matthew 24 (Parable of the Servant Entrusted with Authority)
Matthew 25 (Bridegroom and the Virgins)
Mark 13 and Luke 21 (Parable of the Fig Tree and the Man Taking a Far Journey)
Luke 12 (The Faithful and Unfaithful Servants)

where Jesus urged us to live daily as though His return was imminent lest we become lazy and derelict. See below:

"42Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will. 45Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 47Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' 49and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:42-51)

Remember, He never said He would return immediately. He even told Peter,

"18Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go. 19Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, “Follow Me!” (John 21:18-19)

To James and John:

"And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized." (Mark 10:39)

And to the others,

"9Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name." (Matthew 24:9)

Like us, the disciples didn't always get it right, but Jesus knew what He was talking about and He knew that His words would be preserved for us (Matthew 24:35). Japle is right in that we do still wait, but of course, "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)


Link Posted: 2/18/2011 8:03:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/18/2011 8:11:13 AM EST by SAE]
Originally Posted By TNP357:
I recently started believing in Christianity, and have started reading the bible.
I came across something that didn't make sense and I have a question about it.
I forget the exact verse, but it was in Mathew. I'll have to paraphrase,
but basically it was Jesus saying that he would return to earth before the generation he was talking to had died, and that some
of the people he was talking to would still be alive when he returned.
How do my fellow Christians rationalize this?
Is it a bad translation, hidden meaning, or what?
Thanks


I believe that Jesus here is speaking about the whole generation of the saved through Christ, or Himself latter on as a perfect sacrifice before all mankind in the form of the Holy Spirit of God as They are all One.

Remember also that Jesus did show Himself to others as a glorified living being for several weeks on earth after Calvary.

Jesus also stated that all people in and through Himself, would be the only way to recieve eternal salvation through Jesus physically dying the Cross and this is true.

It was also stated by our Messiah, or Jesus before His death, burial, and resurection, that all who would come after Him would never in a human way experiance death.

And even though as we the living see and experiance death in other persons at times, God tells us still that we as Christians washed in the ''Blood of the Lamb,'' would ''never,'' experiance death, hell, or the grave as others lost to their own sin natures most certainly have done since Adam, and will continue to certainly do until,''The Great and Terrible Day of the LORD,'' has come to pass.

''Never,'' as He said this twice, and that is plenty good for me.

Thanks,

SAE

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 5:30:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 5:36:49 PM EST by crowTrobotwork]
there are some here...

Is probably a reference to John the Revelater.

He did not die, not could he be put to death. that's whiy he was banishied to the isle of Patmos.
John 21:22-23 tells us that John would probably not taste death.

the generation he is referring to is a reference to the fact that a lot of the prophecies about events prior to his second coming would take place within a generation space of time.
Meaning the last generation should be amply aware that the signs they are seeing is Jesus letting you know his coming is only a short time away.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 5:35:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 5:36:20 PM EST by Bladeswitcher]
It did happen. People today just don't understand what he was saying or how it would manifest. There's nothing wrong with Jesus' prophecy or the scriptures. The problem lies with our understanding.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 6:06:29 PM EST
Or was He referring to His pending crucifiction, reserection and transfiguration. Somethings prophesied were days not millenia ahead. Just a thought, as if a passage is tough, it's the reader, not God who is confused.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 1:02:53 PM EST
There's really no good way around it. Jesus promised his followers that the end would come during the lives of some of the people he was preaching to.

The following was posted by drpepper67 on 8/19/10.

For nearly 2000 years, Christians have been looking forward to Jesus' return, an event which was supposed to lead to the "Kingdom of God" and, according to some writings, usher in a millennium of Jesus' rule. The New Testament is the source of these ideas. However, many believers are unaware of what the Bible writers, and Jesus himself, had to say about the timeframe for these momentous events.

Historical analysis of New Testament writings shows that Jesus, as well as the apostles who followed him, believed he would be returning within a relatively short time, within the lifetimes of people then living.

The following quotes are from the RSV.

Matthew 24: Jesus spoke to his disciples concerning a great tribulation, and signs of his return. In 24:34, speaking to the people around him, he said: "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place."

Matthew 10: Jesus spoke about how to accomplish the preaching work. He said to proclaim that "the kingdom of Heaven is at hand." And in 10:23, he said: "When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel, before the Son of man comes."

Mark 9:1: "...Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

Some have tried to re-interpret these verses in various ways, claiming they mean something besides the obvious. For example, some have claimed that "the kingdom of God come with power" does not refer to Jesus' second coming. But in Luke 21:31-32, Jesus spoke of various signs of the end: "So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place." To Jesus, the coming of "the kingdom of God" was clearly equivalent to all having "taken place".

A belief that Jesus' return was imminent was also shared by all of the apostles. Their belief was evidently based on Jesus' own words as described above. The apostles wrote letters to Christian communities, which often refer to the time being short, or the end being near.

In 1 Corinthians 7:26 the apostle Paul gave his advice concerning marriage "in view of the impending distress". He went on to write: "the appointed time has grown very short; from now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none." (7:29) (Personally, I don't know many married Christians who live as though they had no wife.)

Paul made reference to some "punishments" of early Hebrews in 1 Cor. 10. He wrote: "Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come."

The writer of the epistles of Peter also believed that time was short. In 1 Peter 4:7 he wrote: "The end of all things is at hand; therefore keep sane and sober for your prayers." Interestingly, in 2 Peter 3 the writer went to some lengths to explain why God seemed so slow in bringing about that end.

On the so-called "Day of Pentecost" (Acts 2), Jesus' disciples supposedly began speaking in tongues in Jerusalem. The apostle Peter spoke of this as being to fulfill a prophecy: "And in the last days it shall be, God declares...". But clearly, this Day of Pentecost was not the time of the last days.

The writer of 1 John 2:18: "Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour."

The opening verse of Revelation reads: "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place..." It's interesting to compare the ending of Revelation to the ending of the Old Testament book of Daniel. The writer of Daniel meant his prophecies for a much later time, thus he wrote in 12:4: "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end..." The words of Revelation 22:10 are in striking contrast: "... Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." One can really sense the fervent expectation in Revelation's final, "Come, Lord Jesus!".

While Jesus and the apostles believed and reported that his second coming was imminent, over 1900 years have passed since it was supposed to have taken place. Indeed, by Old Testament standards (Deut. 18:22), Jesus and his apostles would have been considered "false prophets".

In all ages since that time, people have looked to Jesus' return as a deliverance from humanity's problems. This quick, supernatural solution is very appealing, especially to those who despair that humans can never solve their problems on their own. But in light of the above, people need to recognize that this hope is an illusion. If solutions to our problems are to be found, perhaps they lie not in supernatural miracles, but in ourselves.

I've heard lots of people "interpret" the Bible to avoid the obvious. It's not convincing. At all.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 1:24:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Japle:
There's really no good way around it. Jesus promised his followers that the end would come during the lives of some of the people he was preaching to . . .


Just because modern man thinks that "the end of the world" is some event that will occur on a particular day/time and be covered on CNN does not mean that's how the early church understood the phrase. The end of the world is nothing more than the end of the OLD world, the way that man used to think and see and believe. The coming of Christ is not the physical appearing of a natural man, but rather a coming of Christ within one's own life and mind. The early disciples understood this and they knew that it happened –– IN THEIR LIFETIME:

Heb: 9[24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Heb.1
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Acts 2:
[14] But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
[15] For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
[16] But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
[18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
[19] And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
[20] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
[21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


1Peter
17] And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
[18] Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
[19] But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
[20] Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
[21] Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

1John2:[18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 2:29:13 PM EST
Thank you, Bladeswitcher, for demonstrating once again that it's possible to prove anything with Bible quotes.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 7:42:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 2:22:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By Japle:
Thank you, Bladeswitcher, for demonstrating once again that it's possible to prove anything with Bible quotes.


You can lead a horse to water . . .
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 2:58:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 3:30:01 AM EST by Bladeswitcher]
Originally Posted By medicmandan:

Originally Posted By Japle:
Thank you, Bladeswitcher, for demonstrating once again that it's possible to prove anything with Bible quotes.




It would probably come as a surprise to Japle that I basically agree with his statement that "quick, supernatural solutions are very appealing" and that the solutions to our problems are not to be found "in supernatural miracles."

It is all too easy to read scripture that speaks of "a day" and take comfort in the fact that the believer has time to make things right. Scripture takes on a whole different meaning when you understand that the day of judgment is TODAY. The earthquakes are the shaking in our own mind/life as we confront new ideas and the houses that we have built on old ideas and doctrines are shaken to the foundation. The wars and rumors of war are nothing but the fight that all warriors must face as they take up the shield of faith and the sword of the word and wrestle against principalities and powers and against the rulers of darkness of the world. There will, in fact, be great tribulation, such as never has been seen before. People who have experienced a "coming of Christ" understand this well.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 11:32:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Japle:
There's really no good way around it. Jesus promised his followers that the end would come during the lives of some of the people he was preaching to.

The following was posted by drpepper67 on 8/19/10.

For nearly 2000 years, Christians have been looking forward to Jesus' return, an event which was supposed to lead to the "Kingdom of God" and, according to some writings, usher in a millennium of Jesus' rule. The New Testament is the source of these ideas. However, many believers are unaware of what the Bible writers, and Jesus himself, had to say about the timeframe for these momentous events.

Historical analysis of New Testament writings shows that Jesus, as well as the apostles who followed him, believed he would be returning within a relatively short time, within the lifetimes of people then living.

The following quotes are from the RSV.

Matthew 24: Jesus spoke to his disciples concerning a great tribulation, and signs of his return. In 24:34, speaking to the people around him, he said: "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place."

Matthew 10: Jesus spoke about how to accomplish the preaching work. He said to proclaim that "the kingdom of Heaven is at hand." And in 10:23, he said: "When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel, before the Son of man comes."

Mark 9:1: "...Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

Some have tried to re-interpret these verses in various ways, claiming they mean something besides the obvious. For example, some have claimed that "the kingdom of God come with power" does not refer to Jesus' second coming. But in Luke 21:31-32, Jesus spoke of various signs of the end: "So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place." To Jesus, the coming of "the kingdom of God" was clearly equivalent to all having "taken place".

A belief that Jesus' return was imminent was also shared by all of the apostles. Their belief was evidently based on Jesus' own words as described above. The apostles wrote letters to Christian communities, which often refer to the time being short, or the end being near.

In 1 Corinthians 7:26 the apostle Paul gave his advice concerning marriage "in view of the impending distress". He went on to write: "the appointed time has grown very short; from now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none." (7:29) (Personally, I don't know many married Christians who live as though they had no wife.)

Paul made reference to some "punishments" of early Hebrews in 1 Cor. 10. He wrote: "Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come."

The writer of the epistles of Peter also believed that time was short. In 1 Peter 4:7 he wrote: "The end of all things is at hand; therefore keep sane and sober for your prayers." Interestingly, in 2 Peter 3 the writer went to some lengths to explain why God seemed so slow in bringing about that end.

On the so-called "Day of Pentecost" (Acts 2), Jesus' disciples supposedly began speaking in tongues in Jerusalem. The apostle Peter spoke of this as being to fulfill a prophecy: "And in the last days it shall be, God declares...". But clearly, this Day of Pentecost was not the time of the last days.

The writer of 1 John 2:18: "Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour."

The opening verse of Revelation reads: "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place..." It's interesting to compare the ending of Revelation to the ending of the Old Testament book of Daniel. The writer of Daniel meant his prophecies for a much later time, thus he wrote in 12:4: "But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end..." The words of Revelation 22:10 are in striking contrast: "... Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." One can really sense the fervent expectation in Revelation's final, "Come, Lord Jesus!".

While Jesus and the apostles believed and reported that his second coming was imminent, over 1900 years have passed since it was supposed to have taken place. Indeed, by Old Testament standards (Deut. 18:22), Jesus and his apostles would have been considered "false prophets".

In all ages since that time, people have looked to Jesus' return as a deliverance from humanity's problems. This quick, supernatural solution is very appealing, especially to those who despair that humans can never solve their problems on their own. But in light of the above, people need to recognize that this hope is an illusion. If solutions to our problems are to be found, perhaps they lie not in supernatural miracles, but in ourselves.

I've heard lots of people "interpret" the Bible to avoid the obvious. It's not convincing. At all.


Japle, I invite you to read my above post about the destruction of the Jewish temple as well as the double significance of prophetic language, and Christ’s instructions to live as though He could return at any moment. EVERYTHING Jesus said was going to happen did happen just as He said it would – but not all simultaneously - and some is still to come. Most scholars agree that these prophecies were written prior to 70AD when Titus and Vespasian completely destroyed Jerusalem or else the Gospel writers would’ve written, “See? We told you so!”

In Acts 1, “6when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
7He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

God’s Kingdom did come when the Old Covenant was nailed to the cross with Jesus. We are the Kingdom. It’s not a physical place, but spiritual. It grows whenever someone comes to faith in Christ. Like the cliché that states that in the simple act of lighting a candle you increase the total amount of light in the universe. It took me a long time and some mind bending to understand this – which is something I love about the more advanced aspects of scripture. Before Jesus’ sacrifice there was a barrier between us and God’s presence that could only be crossed by the priesthood. This was the old way that was intended to prepare us for the new way – the old covenant - the all things that would pass away. We would take our sin offerings and fellowship offerings and ask the priests to pray for us, then we’d worship from afar. This wasn’t because God was being stand-offish, but because He is holy and we aren’t. If He was to enter the presence of the unrepentant and unsanctified Israelites after they broke the covenant for the first time, His presence would have annihilated them.

Jesus came to usher in the New Covenant and the veil was torn, the barrier removed, so we could have direct access to God as a result of Christ’s ultimate atonement for all of our sins. The Kingdom of Heaven was in fact at hand and did come with power! The Old system was wiped away – no more sacrifice, no more priesthood, no more barrier. We had been adopted into the family as Sons of God to share in Christ’s inheritance. Prior to this, no Jew would’ve dared refer to God as his Abba – Father. It was a completely new way for man to relate to his God.

You (or whomever you quoted) have taken your scriptures out of context, whether deliberately or not, which is why I encourage my fellow believers to become conversant in God’s Word so that they’ll recognize such attempts at misdirection. For example, the verse from Matthew 10 took place well before the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24, and was part of Jesus’ warning to His disciples when He sent them out on their own that they not get themselves brashly into trouble just to test whether God had their backs or not. The Son of Man had not yet come in His Kingdom.

In Mark’s gospel, the verse you chose was placed prior even to the transfiguration!

The verse from 1 Corinthians 7:26 at least actually referred to Paul’s advice on marriage. It didn’t refer to Christ’s return but rather the persecutions early Christians suffered from every direction – from Jew and Gentile alike. Personally, if there was a good chance my child would be given over to be ripped apart by wild beasts in the arena I’d probably consider not having any children for a while – let alone taking a wife to be concerned about/support/protect! Sounds like pretty good advice to me…

In 1 Peter 4:7, Peter was writing about 5 years prior to the sacking of Jerusalem. The Jews had recently rebelled against Rome and were being put down, while Christians, in particular, were being used as human torches, beheaded, crucified, fed to beasts, or otherwise tortured to death. Even Peter’s wife was crucified before him later on.

The rest of the section of 1 John 2 reads, "18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. (1 John 2:18-23)

Context makes a difference doesn’t it?

I could continue…

I don’t know what happened in your life to make you hate Christ so much or to make you so proud that you feel superior to anyone who believes, but I’ll pray for you to have peace. If you want to get something off your chest, IM me and we’ll set up a phone call. You might feel better and I’m a pretty good listener, but I’m no fool. You’re the one screaming into a hurricane here.


Link Posted: 3/14/2011 2:27:06 PM EST
Posted by WatchingWaiting:
I don’t know what happened in your life to make you hate Christ so much or to make you so proud that you feel superior to anyone who believes, but I’ll pray for you to have peace.

Oh, don’t be ridiculous. How could I hate Jesus when he was just one in a long series of Messianic Jews? He was no more divine than the others, but, for whatever reason, he caught on where the others had failed.
Mohammed and Joseph Smith caught on, too. That doesn’t make them any more divine than Jesus or you or me.

Does this realization make me feel superior to those who still believe? No.

Do those who still believe feel superior to those who realize that religion is nonsense? How would I know?

Pray if it makes you feel better.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 3:02:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By Japle:
Pray if it makes you feel better.


It does. I've prayed for you twice already!
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 3:06:09 PM EST
I've prayed for you twice already!


I don't notice anything different. What are you praying for, exactly?
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 3:31:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Japle:
Posted by WatchingWaiting:
I don’t know what happened in your life to make you hate Christ so much or to make you so proud that you feel superior to anyone who believes, but I’ll pray for you to have peace.

Oh, don’t be ridiculous. How could I hate Jesus when he was just one in a long series of Messianic Jews? He was no more divine than the others, but, for whatever reason, he caught on where the others had failed.
Mohammed and Joseph Smith caught on, too. That doesn’t make them any more divine than Jesus or you or me.

Does this realization make me feel superior to those who still believe? No.

Do those who still believe feel superior to those who realize that religion is nonsense? How would I know?

Pray if it makes you feel better.


That would be incorrect....Jesus never claimed to be anything less than the only way to God.
The men you mention place Jesus into a category with many others....The Jesus of The Bible places himself in a category all by himself.
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