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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/7/2001 2:22:32 PM EDT
Hey all. I have to ask this one. I know this is an opinionated question and the responses will be varied. I have 3 weapons in my "military" collection that I treasure most. I have a Cetme with self fitted plastic furniture that has yet to experience any malfunctions. I have a Sar1 that has never gave any problems too me. And I have a self built bushy barreled A2 that never missed going bang yet. I have fired all three and like them all. The AR is the most accurate followed by the cetme. The AK is more than acceptable for any "combat situation" and all fire very well. Here is the question: If I had to choose one of these weapons for a general purpose firearm, which would it be, and what ammo choice would be best? This use would cover everything from armed opponents shooting back to protection from animals (black bear, haha grizzlies, rabid dogs, whatever..) I know the .308 to be most powerful, and some say that .223 will not damage a bear enough for survival useage. What would be your choose for the all around weapons system (includes ammo choice, # of rounds, mags, spare parts...) Thanks to all that answer this...
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:26:12 PM EDT
The Ceteme, because it is in 7.62 NATO. If larger animals were not an issue, perhaps the AR.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:26:14 PM EDT
GE minigun in 7.62mm. or for varmint and hunting and target, Barrett model 82. Ice [X]
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:28:47 PM EDT
A shotgun.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:31:39 PM EDT
1100...20 guage.........[:)]
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:32:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2001 2:28:47 PM EDT by Ice]
Say it with me class, "Anti-tank weapon" [url]http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/0900/997.htm[/url] Ice
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:37:55 PM EDT
I would take the ak with 75 and 100 rd drums,at least 12 30rd mags and a quantiful supply of russian hp and fmj.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:43:54 PM EDT
Red Ryder BB Gun.[rolleyes] Just be careful not to shoot your eye out.[:D]
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:50:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:55:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:56:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 2:57:49 PM EDT
OK,OK...A 870 12 GUAGE......or a model 10 s&w.............[:)]
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 3:01:33 PM EDT
For "going it alone" I'd take the 5.56 NATO or 7.62x39. By "going it alone" I want to have as much ammo as I can carry. For humans, and anything deer size and smaller, .223 will do the job fine. Troy, what do you mean you need a "full power" cartridge? Last time I checked the 5.56 round still kills just about anything you can shoot with it. And at any combat range it is pound for pound more worth carrying IMO.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 3:24:56 PM EDT
"Troy, what do you mean you need a "full power" cartridge? Last time I checked the 5.56 round still kills just about anything you can shoot with it. And at any combat range it is pound for pound more worth carrying IMO. " What Troy means (not to put words in his mouth but ithink I can guess)is this M4guy, The .308win or 7.62nato with standard remington Core-locks gets 2200ft-lbs of energy @100 yards, tHe .223(5.56nato) with remington soft points gets 980-1020 ft-lbs of energy at 100 yards, less than half of what the .308 gets. Because of the shock of the bullet, if you wounded someone, the 7.62mm Nato would get alot more energy and possibly the shock alone would kill them or, the bullet would pass through four-five attackers, or the person will definately be knocked down for a while. The .223rem will only work for face/head shots and chest(assuming no kevlar) to kill, it has little knockdown power in comparison,ALthough I don't wanna be hit by one Mortis, I would definately Take the CETME. Hey Where did you get all the parts to build yours? -Chuck
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 3:27:33 PM EDT
If you want parts for the CETME, do a search for "HK G3 parts", most of the guys that carry those carry CETME parts. Ice
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 3:40:39 PM EDT
CHUCK6419 the Cetme was purchased from www.gunsnammo.com It is a Century with a SW receiver. I did have to send it back because the trigger housing was milled to short and would "pop off" the front of the receiver. Got it back in 1 week and has been a keeper ever since. I ordered a plastic G3 stock set from www.tapco.com and made it fit (not a fun thing). looks pretty good though. I do like it alot. Although I must admit, my AR is my baby. And the SAR1 is a gem. OK, I am hopeless. I got the gun itch. Thank you all for the responses. Mortis...
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 3:45:49 PM EDT
FAL, gotta go with the more powerful 7.62Nato.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 4:00:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 4:23:02 PM EDT
12ga pump shotgun with slug, buck and shot.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 4:23:19 PM EDT
M1 Garand in 30.06 [:D]
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 4:53:17 PM EDT
I was always told that the military considers wounding a enemy to be a good thing, wounding a soldier causes more resources to be needed. If that is correct,than the military would have considered the ballistics/trade-offs of the 223. I would choose a 12 gauge 3" 870, with a screw in choked deer barrel. You could carry slugs,buck,and bird shot and be very well armed for most anything.Ammo is easy to get also.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 5:01:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 5:08:44 PM EDT
Shotgun
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 7:25:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: YOUR MIND IS YOUR PRIMARY WEAPON.
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Well Said! The caliber/weapon has no meaning if you can't hit or evade your target/enemy. Chuck and Troy, Regardless of ft lbs energy, at 100 yards, I believe .223 is still highly effective for anti-personnel and . How much energy is really required to kill a human? If a .308 goes through and exits the target, how much of that energy have you completely lost? Maybe half?? Hmmm, so why not carry more ammo. Anyway, that's just one take on the subject.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:07:08 PM EDT
308 is more power then needed, 5.56 just cuts it. I dont know about you, but I like being overpowering then just acceptable.
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:25:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2001 8:46:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4Guy:
Originally Posted By raf: YOUR MIND IS YOUR PRIMARY WEAPON.
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Well Said! The caliber/weapon has no meaning if you can't hit or evade your target/enemy. Chuck and Troy, Regardless of ft lbs energy, at 100 yards, I believe .223 is still highly effective for anti-personnel and . How much energy is really required to kill a human? If a .308 goes through and exits the target, how much of that energy have you completely lost? Maybe half?? Hmmm, so why not carry more ammo. Anyway, that's just one take on the subject.
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I don’t understand the whole concept of “wasted energy” if a bullet exits. It seems to me that the “energy transfer” damage imparted on a target is specifically the rapid displacement of the tissue that the bullet is passing through. As the bullet slows down, and the velocity is not sufficient to cause temporary cavity damage, all of this “energy” that is being “dumped” is wasted. So, if the guy is 12” thick, and that velocity drop happens over the last 1/3 of the penetration, there is no “energy” component to the damage, only the permanent crush or slicing cavity has an effect. Contrast this to a .50 cal BMG round. It will plow through a torso and displace tissue through its entire path, barely slowing in the process. According to your previous statement, this results in a massive amount of “wasted energy.” I see it as a round that imparts “energy” powerful enough to cause massive temporary cavity damage through the entire wound track. It also, since it blows a fairly good hole in the backside of the target, gives the target an additional large hole to bleed through. The bottom line is this, a 9mm will “dump all of its energy” into a target (with a larger diameter projectile, BTW), but a .50 cal BMG will “waste almost all of its energy” by completely penetrating. Which would you rather be hit with?
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:30:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:55:17 AM EDT
Weight is something I hear a lot about but with a good backpack the avg man should be able to carry half of his weight and a person who use to doing it can do %75 of there weight. If for just a day patrol I would say at most a quarter of your weight now beef jerky 1 change of clothing and water putrefaction tables I found don't weight that much. So the ammo you take is up to you you maybe able to carry 500 rd of 223rem and only 250 rd of 308win. But we all must remember that if your on a day patrol and there is only two or 3 of you If its going to take more then 100 rounds your in over your head. That is what I was taught but if you are being hit you should just get the hell out of there and hide because it does not matter if your able to carry 10,0000 round of any ammo if the force is to big then just get out find a place to hide because you may take a few but they can shoot back also.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 5:23:09 AM EDT
American Express Don't leave home without it.
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