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AR15.COM
1/18/2010 5:57:44 PM EDT
for the children! (and my gas mileage)

http://www.naturalnews.com/027815_ethanol_gasoline.html

(NaturalNews) A recent study conducted by researchers at Stanford University has revealed that ethanol fuel produces more ozone that regular gasoline. When ethanol is burned through combustion, it produces emissions that are substantially higher than gasoline in aldehydes, the carcinogenic precursors to ozone.

Much of the fuel dispensed at pumps in America today is a blend of both ethanol and gasoline. E85, a typical gasoline blend that is 85 percent ethanol, was found to emit more ozone pollutants than gasoline, especially during warm, sunny days. Diana Ginnebaugh, a doctoral candidate who worked on the study, explained that even on cold days when ozone is typically not a problem, E85 could result in problematic levels of ozone.

When a car is first started on a cold day, it takes the catalytic converter a few minutes to warm up in order to reach maximum efficiency. During the warmup period, the highest proportion of pollutants escape the car's tailpipe, resulting in increased pollution. According to Ginnebaugh, even a slight increase in pollutants could cause places like Los Angeles and Denver, cities that already have smog problems, to have significantly more days when ozone limits are exceeded and public health is at risk.

E85 emissions contain several other different pollutants including ones that cause throat and eye irritation and lung problems. Crop damage may also occur from the aldehydes emitted from the burning of ethanol. In the worst-case scenario, E85 was found to potentially add 39 parts per billion more ozone into the air a day than normal gasoline.

This study exposes yet another angle on the scam of ethanol –– a fuel that has been pushed as "green" by corn growers who obviously benefit from the increased demand for their crops. But ethanol is largely a scam: It takes nearly as much fuel to grow and process ethanol as you get back out of it, making it an extremely inefficient plant-based fuel.

At the same time, as this study shows, ethanol is also causing more pollution than regular gasoline. So it's not cleaner and greener; it's actually dirtier and wasteful.

As with everything involving fuel, ethanol has become a highly politicized issue where real science gets abandoned. Rather than focusing on real energy solutions, the U.S. government remains focused on things that give the appearance of clean energy when, in reality, they are quite the opposite.

What we should really be pursuing as a nation is a high-priority project to enhance battery technology so that the next generation of vehicles could all run on electricity gathered from the sun via solar panels. Why burn up corn as fuel when you can collect your fuel from the sky for free?
1/18/2010 6:00:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Even farmers don't believe that ethanol is a great thing.  However, it does support crop prices, therefore they are all for it.
1/18/2010 6:01:05 PM EDT
[#2]
HEAR, HEAR!!!!



My gas mileage has SUCKED since all the stations switched to 10% ethanol real sudden-like two months ago. My Tundra usually got 17.5mpg around town, and now I'm lucky to get 16.5 with no change in driving habits.
1/18/2010 6:03:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
HEAR, HEAR!!!!

My gas mileage has SUCKED since all the stations switched to 10% ethanol real sudden-like two months ago. My Tundra usually got 17.5mpg around town, and now I'm lucky to get 16.5 with no change in driving habits.


Yep. My Tacoma has taken a steady dive in mileage since August. I have the numbers in a spreadsheet to prove it. The drop has been much more dramatic than previous winters. The only thing I can come up with is that in previous winters, I wasn't getting so much damn ethanol in my fuel.
1/18/2010 6:04:39 PM EDT
[#4]
And around and around we go with the orbiting moral pendulum of environmentalism.

"Don't use paper grocery bags!  Use plastic!  Save the trees!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

"Don't use plastic grocery bags!  Use canvass!  Plastic bags are killing whales!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

"Don't use canvass grocery bags!  They're made in sweat shops!  Carry it in your arms!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

"Don't go to the grocery store!  It causes pollution and profits capitalist pig-dogs!  Grow your own garden!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

"Don't grow your own garden!  It depletes the soil of nutrients!  Starve instead!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

(Local News TV Anchor) "...meanwhile, the rate of environmental activists dying from malnutrition continues to increase.  In related news, a new grocery store will be opening on Main Street tomorrow!"

_MaH
1/18/2010 6:06:06 PM EDT
[#5]
My F150 4x4 has lost at least 2 mpg since I've been forced to use that fuckin ethanol blend fuel. The last Sunoco station around here finally had to switch to it because the fuel depot they get their gas from switched... the pricks.
1/18/2010 6:06:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
And around and around we go with the orbiting moral pendulum of environmentalism.

"Don't use paper grocery bags!  Use plastic!  Save the trees!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

"Don't use plastic grocery bags!  Use canvass!  Plastic bags are killing whales!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

"Don't use canvass grocery bags!  They're made in sweat shops!  Carry it in your arms!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

"Don't go to the grocery store!  It causes pollution and profits capitalist pig-dogs!  Grow your own garden!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

"Don't grow your own garden!  It depletes the soil of nutrients!  Starve instead!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

(Local News TV Anchor) "...meanwhile, the rate of environmental activists dying from malnutrition continues to increase.  In related news, a new grocery store will be opening on Main Street tomorrow!"

_MaH


Where in that cycle are we now?
1/18/2010 6:08:49 PM EDT
[#7]
the small engine repair guys are LOVING ETHANOL...all those carb rebuild are gonna keep them in new Pickups for years to come
1/18/2010 6:10:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
And around and around we go with the orbiting moral pendulum of environmentalism.

"Don't use paper grocery bags!  Use plastic!  Save the trees!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

"Don't use plastic grocery bags!  Use canvass!  Plastic bags are killing whales!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

"Don't use canvass grocery bags!  They're made in sweat shops!  Carry it in your arms!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

"Don't go to the grocery store!  It causes pollution and profits capitalist pig-dogs!  Grow your own garden!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

"Don't grow your own garden!  It depletes the soil of nutrients!  Starve instead!"

(Fast forward a couple decades)

(Local News TV Anchor) "...meanwhile, the rate of environmental activists dying from malnutrition continues to increase.  In related news, a new grocery store will be opening on Main Street tomorrow!"

_MaH


Where in that cycle are we now?


The "use canvass" phase.  Every grocery store I go to has at least one rack of them somewhere that they're trying to sell.

_MaH
1/18/2010 6:13:25 PM EDT
[#9]
When Oregon's Governor made 10% ethanol mandatory I did a paper on Ethanol blends.  My recommendation was, further research is needed to determine if ethanol was a alternative energy source to fossil fuels.  The unknown effects of  swapping of hydrocarbons emissions for aldehyde emissions was the primary reason for this recommendation.  

1/18/2010 6:14:21 PM EDT
[#10]
I have to deal with this crap every day with my work.

Please don't get me started...
1/18/2010 6:20:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
When Oregon's Governor made 10% ethanol mandatory I did a paper on Ethanol blends.  My recommendation was, further research is needed to determine if ethanol was a alternative energy source to fossil fuels.  The unknown effects of  swapping of hydrocarbons emissions for aldehyde emissions was the primary reason for this recommendation.  



I would be interested in reading your paper if you still have it.

Thanks

PAR
1/18/2010 6:23:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
the small engine repair guys are LOVING ETHANOL...all those carb rebuild are gonna keep them in new Pickups for years to come


thanks ethanol!!!  (seriously)
1/18/2010 6:32:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
the small engine repair guys are LOVING ETHANOL...all those carb rebuild are gonna keep them in new Pickups for years to come


Uh, no they are not...

Talk about headaches with customers...

Of course "the machine is garbage", or "Your Techs don't know what they are doing"... never the fuel.
1/18/2010 6:38:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
the small engine repair guys are LOVING ETHANOL...all those carb rebuild are gonna keep them in new Pickups for years to come


Uh, no they are not...

Talk about headaches with customers...

Of course "the machine is garbage", or "Your Techs don't know what they are doing"... never the fuel.


+100
1/18/2010 6:39:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
the small engine repair guys are LOVING ETHANOL...all those carb rebuild are gonna keep them in new Pickups for years to come


Uh, no they are not...

Talk about headaches with customers...

Of course "the machine is garbage", or "Your Techs don't know what they are doing"... never the fuel.


not really. most people actually seem to understand.  keeping sample bad fuel at the counter helps alot too
1/18/2010 6:41:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
the small engine repair guys are LOVING ETHANOL...all those carb rebuild are gonna keep them in new Pickups for years to come


Uh, no they are not...

Talk about headaches with customers...

Of course "the machine is garbage", or "Your Techs don't know what they are doing"... never the fuel.


not really. most people actually seem to understand.  keeping sample bad fuel at the counter helps alot too


The only people who I find that really understand it are my boat owners.
1/18/2010 6:42:57 PM EDT
[#17]
When ethanol is burned through combustion, it produces emissions that are substantially higher than gasoline in aldehydes, the carcinogenic precursors to ozone.


Duh.  Never been to a racetrack with alcohol fueled cars, eh?  Your eyes and nose burn for a reason.
1/18/2010 6:46:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
the small engine repair guys are LOVING ETHANOL...all those carb rebuild are gonna keep them in new Pickups for years to come


thanks ethanol!!!  (seriously)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/EFB16ACRX/IMG_0176.jpg


Dude, sweet upgrade!!

_MaH
1/18/2010 6:49:35 PM EDT
[#19]
<Corn Grower

I find ethanol really really hard to support. It makes me more money, but its bad for the nation as a whole, and bad for the world as it takes food out of production.

Its hard to say, but generally Im against it.
1/18/2010 6:51:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
<Corn Grower

I find ethanol really really hard to support. It makes me more money, but its bad for the nation as a whole, and bad for the world as it takes food out of production.

Its hard to say, but generally Im against it.


Thank you for your honesty.
1/18/2010 6:53:56 PM EDT
[#21]
I want that 106 octane in my area darn it!!!!  Must have more POWER!!!!
1/18/2010 6:54:14 PM EDT
[#22]
It doesn't need to be banned, just not subsidized anymore.

From the figures I have seen the subsidy is so large that there is no way anyone would buy it on the open market for its actual market value.
1/18/2010 7:40:04 PM EDT
[#23]
1 good case of phase separation in a boat tank and you'll be ready to napalm the corn fields.

1/18/2010 8:04:06 PM EDT
[#24]
YEP, THE SMALL ENGINE SHOPS AROUND HERE HATE THIS CPAP!!!!!
1/18/2010 8:32:31 PM EDT
[#25]
it's knocked about 10% off my MPG. I used to get 350/360 miles out of a tank, I'm getting about 320 now.
1/19/2010 1:43:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
It doesn't need to be banned, just not subsidized anymore.

From the figures I have seen the subsidy is so large that there is no way anyone would buy it on the open market for its actual market value.


Where would we be without the government screwing with the free market....
1/19/2010 5:12:07 PM EDT
[#27]
one bump