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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/22/2001 5:27:43 PM EDT
I admit this is my first time to read the book. It has been great so far, but a recurring theme is Howe's complaints about leadership, tactics, Rangers, and the 5.56. I am on page 284 and the guy is STILL griping about everything! I understood, prior to reading the book, that Howe was probably shooting a CAR with a very short barrel that might be causing the 5.56 green tip to not disintegrate when it hits a human, however, even shots that are reported by Howe to be under 20 yds he is still saying the rounds were not effective. Is this guy just a 'Luke Skywalker' always whining and moaning or is he reputable? He is whining so much it is becoming comic/ridiculous. TheRedGoat
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 6:45:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 7:06:30 PM EDT
Well, first of all, maybe Howe wasn't scoring any kill shots! I agree with the "Luke Skywalker" comment. Howe describes a scene in the book where he lets out a burst at four guys walking along a wall, and he gets pissed when only two go down. He then curses the weapon. Ya just ain't gonna kill it, if you don't get a kill shot. I dont care if it's a 5.56, 7.62 or a 50 cal. (well, OK, maybe a 50 cal!)
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 7:30:37 PM EDT
First off, I believe that Sgt. Howe was the ONLY Delta operator who had clearance to discuss the battle. So you're getting an overwhelming amount of information from Rangers and only a fraction of the available information from Delta. Second, I believe that the Delta operators were using what amounts to the precursor to the M4, a 14.5" A2 sighted carbine. See my thread here ([url]http://www.cinemayhem.com/Cineforum/Forum17/HTML/000220.html[/url]). I don't believe the 10-11.5" barrel rumor.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 1:30:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Corey: I don't believe the 10-11.5" barrel rumor.
View Quote
I spent 3 months in Somalia. I [b]never[/b] saw an M4 there. I saw many 11.5" Micro CAR-15's there, usually used by plain clothes DOD and State department employees.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 5:12:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 10:44:18 AM EDT
Well, I am almost finished with the book. Howe is stil carping about the 5.56, not just the ss109. Funny thing...he alludes to having been on multiple other missions, and comments that Shugart had been teased for carrying the M-14. He continues by pointing out how much more effective the M-14 would probably be vs. the CAR-15. It makes it appear that Howe had never fired his weapon in anger (ie. at a live target) prior to Mogadishu. Odd. For all his whining it appears this is also his first time returning fire. The part about firing a burst at multiple Sammys just yds from his position is what I was referring to in my comment. Long/Short barrel the .223 should have retained Plenty-O speed at these range to fragment. Sweep, I have shot multiple items with my .223 using various rounds, ball, HP, soft point, ss109, Wolf, south African, etc. IMHO they all perform about the same on melons. Small entry, dynamic exit. Pumpkins tend to just allow the round to pass right through with little more than a .30 caliber exit hole. The only time I found the .223 to be amazing was when shooting a row of 55 gallon steel drums that I intended to use for burning trash. The Green tipped round 'sailed' through 2.5 cans, it stopped on the outer wal of the 3rd can. You could actually see the 'keyhole' on the exit of the first can. Perfect .223 shaped, with the nose pointing straight up! I had shot the same drums that day with .38 special, .357 mag, 9mm, 45 Long Colt, and a 12 guage. Only the .223 penetrated more than two walls. Most stopped on the second side of the first barrel (only went trhough one piece of steel.) TheRedGoat
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