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Posted: 8/24/2005 6:49:19 AM EDT
Are all view points equally valid?

Can you and I be discussing a topic in which we disagree, where one of our arguments is more right than the other?

Or do you believe that both sides of an argument should always be considered equally valid?


Or is there still a right and wrong?

SGatr15
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:50:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:50:55 AM EDT
All opinions are welcome.


Not all opinions are equal.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:51:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Are all view points equally valid?

Can you and I be discussing a topic in which we disagree, where one of our arguments is more right than the other?

Or do you believe that both sides of an argument should always be considered equally valid?


Or is there still a right and wrong?

SGatr15



2 plus 2 never equals five.

Blue is not the same thing as green.

Fire burns whether anyone acknowledges it or not.

There IS such a thing as absolute truth.

Some issues are black and white. Some are not.

But most of the time what is right is pretty obvious.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:52:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Are all view points equally valid?



No


Can you and I be discussing a topic in which we disagree, where one of our arguments is more right than the other?


Yes, if you are of an opinion that has no factual basis and is uneducated and based on emotion only.


Or do you believe that both sides of an argument should always be considered equally valid?


No


Or is there still a right and wrong?


Yes, still a right and wrong.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:53:30 AM EDT
No, some viewpoints are idiotic, stupid, biased, based on beliefs instead of facts. I disregard those.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:57:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Are all view points equally valid?/quote]


Not if you play with dolls........
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:58:37 AM EDT
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
- Winston Churchill

"The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it."
- Dale Carnegie
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:59:19 AM EDT
depends on the opinions, do you hav a specific example?

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:03:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
All viewpoints are not equally valid. The viewpoint which aligns more with the most facts is more valid.



That seems to sum it up. And many "viewpoint" become nothing more than ad hominem attacks.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:05:33 AM EDT
factual evidence has merit.

beliefs feelings and opinions are a dime a dozen.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:06:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
factual evidence has merit.

beliefs feelings and opinions are a dime a dozen.



Nice post.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:14:25 AM EDT
I believe everybody should have taken a symbolic logic class before leaving high school. I'll leave it at that.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:17:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:20:00 AM EDT

Are ALL viewpoints equaly valid?


No- some people joined like, last year. So we don't listen to them.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:20:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:
depends on the opinions, do you hav a specific example?




Yes, lets look at wars.

In a war you have to sides fighting.
Can one country be considered to be fighting for what is right and a nobal cause, while the other is wrong and must be defeated?

Or..are both sides right and we just need to understand the other side more?

Sgatr15
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:24:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Are ALL viewpoints equaly valid?


No- some people joined like, last year. So we don't listen to them.



Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:25:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Yes, lets look at wars.

In a war you have to sides fighting.
Can one country be considered to be fighting for what is right and a nobal cause, while the other is wrong and must be defeated?

Or..are both sides right and we just need to understand the other side more?

Sgatr15



The Germans and Japanese saw themselves as being in the right, however, in the big picture, they were not right. They were wrong, brutal, and terrible. It took a force of good, on the RIGHT side, to defeat that.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:27:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

The Germans and Japanese saw themselves as being in the right, however, in the big picture, they were not right. They were wrong, brutal, and terrible. It took a force of good, on the RIGHT side, to defeat that.



I agree, even thought the enemy THINKS they have a legitamite complaint doesn't mean they are right.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:27:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 7:28:09 AM EDT by livefreeordieNH]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Dino:
depends on the opinions, do you hav a specific example?




Yes, lets look at wars.

In a war you have to sides fighting.
Can one country be considered to be fighting for what is right and a nobal cause, while the other is wrong and must be defeated?

Or..are both sides right and we just need to understand the other side more?

Sgatr15



The one that can spell is right.



livefereordeiNH
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:28:11 AM EDT
Are all viewpoints equally valid? Yes.

They are all worthless if they don't agree with mine.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:28:34 AM EDT
It is like divorce, where both sides are convinced they are right.

And sometimes both are right.

It is a matter of perspective.

This does not pertain to matters other than the heart.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:29:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:30:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
I believe everybody should have taken a symbolic logic class before leaving high school. I'll leave it at that.

You shouldn't leave it at that. What's a symbolic logic class?



You're gonna hate me!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_logic
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:32:43 AM EDT
Depends on the topic. Everyone's talking about facts being facts, but, there is not always "factual" evidence.


Say, there is a picture of a red flower vase on the wall.

One person may see it as complete genius.

One person may see it as garbage.

Both of thier viewpoints are valid, becasue, there wimply aren't any facts in evidence.

Someone could say:

"I like AKs becasue of the way they look."

Or,

"I don't like AKs becasue of how they look."

There aren't any facts presented by either side.



Even with facts in evidence, like an ecenomic indicator:

Econemist 1 says it's pointing at a recession

Econemist 2 says it's pointing at growth.

Just like most things. Situationally dependant.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:44:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

The Germans and Japanese saw themselves as being in the right, however, in the big picture, they were not right. They were wrong, brutal, and terrible. It took a force of good, on the RIGHT side, to defeat that.



I agree, even thought the enemy THINKS they have a legitamite complaint doesn't mean they are right.

Sgat1r5



That is the easiest to justify from a historical perspective.

What about Carthage vs Rome? or the American Indian vs the United States Army?

You're right that very few people will fight for a cause they see as evil, so they tend to view themselves as the good guys. In most cases, neither side is pure as the driven snow.

Instead of trying to figure out who is right, its often more constructive to pick who is less wrong.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:47:59 AM EDT
Just the facts, mam.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:48:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:
Instead of trying to figure out who is right, its often more constructive to pick who is less wrong.




Okay, I can agree with that.

But let's use this example. A homeless guy is VERY hungry and needs to eat, so he tries to rob you. You defend yourself.


Who is right, who is wrong?

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:52:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 7:54:07 AM EDT by krpind]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Dino:
Instead of trying to figure out who is right, its often more constructive to pick who is less wrong.




Okay, I can agree with that.

But let's use this example. A homeless guy is VERY hungry and needs to eat, so he tries to rob you. You defend yourself.


Who is right, who is wrong?

Sgat1r5



In the value system that we are taught, you are right to defend yourself. He is wrong to try to rob you.

ETA....I guess he would be in the right if he tried to eat you instead of robbing you.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:53:19 AM EDT
There is absolute truth. You'll see liberal arguements that are clearly based on their belief that everything is relative. Here's a simiple example. 2+2=4. Some will argue that 2+2 is really 10 so we should compromise and agree that 2+2=6. There are a couple of problems with this. First, it's clearly wrong (not accurate). Second, it encourages the person to make a wild clam in hopes of even different outcome. For instance, if you don't stand up to the first wild claim they'll claim that 2+2=103,203. Therefore we should compromise that 2+2=50,000. Now isn't that great? No. It's still wrong.

R.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:56:42 AM EDT
All viewpoints are not equally valid. By failing to debate until the true answer is found, all you've done is fail to find the answer.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:04:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jack19:
All viewpoints are not equally valid. By failing to debate until the true answer is found, all you've done is fail to find the answer.



Depends on the question.

For example....Are all viewpoints equally valid?

The only correct answer is, it depends.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:15:21 AM EDT
No. If you've paid for a team membership or have more posts, your viewpoint is more valid.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:19:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Are all view points equally valid?



Depends whats being discussed. Some issues come down to being nothing more than a matter of opinion.Religion, for instance. Totally nothing more than faith-based, with no way to prove for or against a particular viewpoint.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:25:01 AM EDT
All opinions are valid. All beliefs are not. Beliefs concern factual matters. Opinions do not. You can believe God does or does not exist. Only one person can be right. I can have the opinion peanut butter is gross and you that its yummy. Both are valid.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:25:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
"The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it."
- Dale Carnegie



dale carnegie was a fag.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:29:52 AM EDT


But let's use this example. A homeless guy is VERY hungry and needs to eat, so he tries to rob you. You defend yourself.



The fact that he is homeless and VERY hungry does not give him a claim on the product of my effort.

It's wrong when he tries to rob me directly but at least I can defend myself in this case. It's much worse when so called "moral" people use the power of the government to force me to give him money via the tax-welfare system -- self defense is MUCH more difficult in this situation.

- CD
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:32:43 AM EDT
All viewpoints are equally valid, except for mine, which by their nature are inherently superior, because I am always right about everything.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:36:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Are all view points equally valid?

...snip...
SGatr15



Among idiots, yes.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:45:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Dino:
Instead of trying to figure out who is right, its often more constructive to pick who is less wrong.




Okay, I can agree with that.

But let's use this example. A homeless guy is VERY hungry and needs to eat, so he tries to rob you. You defend yourself.


Who is right, who is wrong?

Sgat1r5



There is no right or wrong. There is only what is and what is not. There is legal and illegal. Right or wrong can be individual or cultural. Serial killers believe that certain people deserve to die for their pleasure is right. That is a valid view point because its what made them do or not do something. Its right to him and wrong to others. What does VALID mean there? I say all view points are valid because that is what controls people to do or not do something.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:47:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Are all view points equally valid?

Can you and I be discussing a topic in which we disagree, where one of our arguments is more right than the other?

Or do you believe that both sides of an argument should always be considered equally valid?


Or is there still a right and wrong?

SGatr15

You must be joking. Not only 'No', but 'Hell No'.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:47:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Are all view points equally valid?

Can you and I be discussing a topic in which we disagree, where one of our arguments is more right than the other?

Or do you believe that both sides of an argument should always be considered equally valid?


Or is there still a right and wrong?

SGatr15



2 plus 2 never equals five.

Blue is not the same thing as green.

Fire burns whether anyone acknowledges it or not.

There IS such a thing as absolute truth.

Some issues are black and white. Some are not.

But most of the time what is right is pretty obvious.



Exactly.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 9:29:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:
All viewpoints are equally valid, except for mine, which by their nature are inherently superior, because I am always right about everything.



+1 only change "you" to "me"
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:01:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
All viewpoints are not equally valid. The viewpoint which aligns more with the most facts is more valid.



Exactly
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:04:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
There is no right or wrong. There is only what is and what is not. There is legal and illegal. Right or wrong can be individual or cultural. Serial killers believe that certain people deserve to die for their pleasure is right. That is a valid view point because its what made them do or not do something. Its right to him and wrong to others. What does VALID mean there? I say all view points are valid because that is what controls people to do or not do something.



Are you a Moral Relativist?
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:47:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
I believe everybody should have taken a symbolic logic class before leaving high school. I'll leave it at that.

You shouldn't leave it at that. What's a symbolic logic class?



You're gonna hate me!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_logic




......I need to go lie down now. my head hurts.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 11:02:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By freemanesq:
There is absolute truth. You'll see liberal arguements that are clearly based on their belief that everything is relative. Here's a simiple example. 2+2=4. Some will argue that 2+2 is really 10 so we should compromise and agree that 2+2=6. There are a couple of problems with this. First, it's clearly wrong (not accurate). Second, it encourages the person to make a wild clam in hopes of even different outcome. For instance, if you don't stand up to the first wild claim they'll claim that 2+2=103,203. Therefore we should compromise that 2+2=50,000. Now isn't that great? No. It's still wrong.

R.




EGGS-ACT-LY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 11:43:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 11:46:11 AM EDT by yekimak]
Everything is black and white....the debated grey areas are created when we are afraid of the answer(s), or when we have asked a stupid question.

This is different than questions regarding moderation, where either one extreme or the other is obviously wrong.


One of our biggest faults is thinking that everyone is as reasonable as we are.

No, not everyone's opinion is of equal weight or validity. But we all have our rights to them, whatever they are.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 12:06:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:

There is no right or wrong. There is only what is and what is not. There is legal and illegal. Right or wrong can be individual or cultural. Serial killers believe that certain people deserve to die for their pleasure is right. That is a valid view point because its what made them do or not do something. Its right to him and wrong to others. What does VALID mean there? I say all view points are valid because that is what controls people to do or not do something.




Sorry, but there are absolutes.

Funny thing, moral relativists are the first to cry "unfair" when it involves them personally.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 12:13:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

But let's use this example. A homeless guy is VERY hungry and needs to eat, so he tries to rob you. You defend yourself.

Who is right, who is wrong?

Sgat1r5



Now you've given a clear example.

The thief is wrong.

The answer?

Leviticus 19:11 Ye shall not steal...

See?

There are issues that are right or wrong.

No gray areas at all.

"Ye shall not steal".

Simple as that.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 12:32:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By ElCamino:
All viewpoints are equally valid, except for mine, which by their nature are inherently superior, because I am always right about everything.



+1 only change "you" to "me"



Oh it can apply to everyone. It's a universal statement of truth, no matter who says it.
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