[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Keltec has lost their mind: PR57 5,7 front lock breech top stripper clip feed defensive pistol (Page 6 of 9)
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Quoted: I know a couple guys trying to load for it, it's apparently a PITA. Quoted: Quoted: How hard is it to reload 5.7x28? . I know a couple guys trying to load for it, it's apparently a PITA. Not an issue at all. So long as you don’t tumble the lacquer off the cases it’s just like any other bottle necked cartridge. The large amount of shoulder movement from the blowback action means they’ll get a neck separation sooner than your usual 5.56 case, but I buy factory ammo, reload twice, and use them in a PSA Rock for the fourth firing and don’t pick up the cases. |
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Good on them. I'd say that is a good move. About a decade late, but a good move nonetheless. Unfortunately I don't think it will do much for sales. The design still needs an update. The complete gun with brace is listed at 3.4 lbs!?!??! which is incredible. But adding a pound or so to the gun by way of a real foreend, solid 1913 molded to the receiver instead of that erector set thing, and the option for a 10.5 or 11.5 barrel and I bet it would sell like hotcakes. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. In 20 years they have managed to add a ridiculous 1913 adapter to what could be a really cool gun Basically, I think they should do something like this, but to all their guns   |
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Quoted: 5.7x28 is a non-starter. The ammo is hard to find, quite expensive, and exceptionally difficult to reload. I bought a PS90 in 2020. I ended up selling it before ever shooting it because the ammo was such a shitstorm. The ammo situation may be better in 2025 than it was in 2020, but that cartridge is dead to me. @Jordan1776 What did you find difficult in the reloading process? And you bought into a new caliber in the year of the biggest run on ammo in how many years? That wasn’t a 5.7 issue, that was an ‘every caliber’ issue for those who hadn’t stocked up or weren’t prepared to handload. |
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5.7x28 is ~1/2 the weight of 9mm; 40gr loads are 6.9g when I weighed them years ago. x20 = 138g / 4.87oz --> Loaded PR57 = 18.73oz That's only about 1oz heavier then a loaded 30rd PMAG vs a pistol loaded with 20rd.... A glock 43 with empty magazine is 17.99oz this is awesome.  |
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Quoted: Grendel P-10 came out in 1988. Top loader / M16 stripper clips: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/130695/IMG_4250_jpeg-3434580.JPG I saw a Grendel at GT Distributors a few weeks ago and was so excited until I saw it was the box fed magazine version 
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Quoted: 5.7x28 is a non-starter. The ammo is hard to find, quite expensive, and exceptionally difficult to reload. I bought a PS90 in 2020. I ended up selling it before ever shooting it because the ammo was such a shitstorm. The ammo situation may be better in 2025 than it was in 2020, but that cartridge is dead to me. This is not 2020. Palmetto has ammo for .46 cents per round all the time. You gave an opinion of what you went through in 2020 and just assumed it still applies today without doing some research. |
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Saw them talking about this on Keltec's page and evidently they said this is Keltec West's first product. They are evidently making some stuff in Wyoming now, I had no idea that was a thing. https://blog.keltecweapons.com/press/keltec-announces-new-wyoming-plant |
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Quoted: Not an issue at all. So long as you don't tumble the lacquer off the cases it's just like any other bottle necked cartridge. The large amount of shoulder movement from the blowback action means they'll get a neck separation sooner than your usual 5.56 case, but I buy factory ammo, reload twice, and use them in a PSA Rock for the fourth firing and don't pick up the cases. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How hard is it to reload 5.7x28? |
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Most Bans are set up like: 1. Any magazine over 10 rounds is illegal. That includes fixed. Maybe rimfire tube exemption. Even less likely CF tube exemption. 2. A semi-auto with detachable mag and evil features is an illegal AW So this doesn't help at all. Would only be legal if blocked to 10 but detachable 10s are legal too. |
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Quoted: Saw them talking about this on Keltec's page and evidently they said this is Keltec West's first product. They are evidently making some stuff in Wyoming now, I had no idea that was a thing. https://blog.keltecweapons.com/press/keltec-announces-new-wyoming-plant They showed it on the most recent episode of American rifleman. |
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Quoted: Most Bans are set up like: 1. Any magazine over 10 rounds is illegal. That includes fixed. Maybe rimfire tube exemption. Even less likely CF tube exemption. 2. A semi-auto with detachable mag and evil features is an illegal AW So this doesn't help at all. Would only be legal if blocked to 10 but detachable 10s are legal too. Agreed. I don't think this has anything to do with ban states at all. I believe its to -make the grip smaller for women given the long length of 5.7x28 -reduce weapon weight -satisfy Kelgren's fetish for stripper clip loading pistols The last point being the most important imo. |
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Quoted: I'll probably get one... Attached File We know ... We all know |
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Quoted: Most Bans are set up like: 1. Any magazine over 10 rounds is illegal. That includes fixed. Maybe rimfire tube exemption. Even less likely CF tube exemption. 2. A semi-auto with detachable mag and evil features is an illegal AW So this doesn't help at all. Would only be legal if blocked to 10 but detachable 10s are legal too. Might not help you - Colorado is looking at a detachable magazine semi-auto ban. 1) Legal to OC in Oregon w/ a permit; 2) Illegal to OC in Portland w/ a loaded magazine (or clip - dammit!) on yer person; 3) Nobody's gonna snatch a Kel-Tec off of ya. 
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Quoted: Quoted: I'll probably get one... /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/mourning-nod-1006.gif We know ... We all know I am the weird guns of the world spirit animal..... |
(video in tweet) |
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Quoted: I saw a Grendel at GT Distributors a few weeks ago and was so excited until I saw it was the box fed magazine version Quoted: Quoted: Grendel P-10 came out in 1988. Top loader / M16 stripper clips: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/130695/IMG_4250_jpeg-3434580.JPG I saw a Grendel at GT Distributors a few weeks ago and was so excited until I saw it was the box fed magazine version @DavidY I paid $110 for mine in 1988. It was the first pistol that I purchased myself, but not my first handgun. It was reliable when I used it in the first few years. I’ve carried it far more than shot it though. I actually ran the steel plates at 15 yards on an IPSC course once - a clean run of 6/6. The holster is a modified snubnose holster from the same era. Attached File Attached File |
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Quoted: Might not help you - Colorado is looking at a detachable magazine semi-auto ban. Also helps anyone visiting Portland: 1) Legal to OC in Oregon w/ a permit; 2) Illegal to OC in Portland w/ a loaded magazine on yer person; 3) Nobody's gonna snatch a Kel-Tec off of ya. Any law that limits 'magazine's also applies to fixed mags. Unless it's written specifically 'detachable mag' or with a fixed mag exception. CO already has a 15 round limit that would probably ban this keltec There also is a recoil operated exception that allows most 15 rd detachable mag pistols anyway I hope it does but I wouldn't believe this helps anybody without seeing the full text of their ban(s) More fixed mag CARBINE options would help a lot more. |
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Quoted: Good on them. I'd say that is a good move. About a decade late, but a good move nonetheless. Unfortunately I don't think it will do much for sales. The design still needs an update. The complete gun with brace is listed at 3.4 lbs!?!??! which is incredible. But adding a pound or so to the gun by way of a real foreend, solid 1913 molded to the receiver instead of that erector set thing, and the option for a 10.5 or 11.5 barrel and I bet it would sell like hotcakes. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. In 20 years they have managed to add a ridiculous 1913 adapter to what could be a really cool gun Basically, I think they should do something like this, but to all their guns https://i.imgur.com/pIdVNpc.png https://i.imgur.com/J6q3P0a.png @cj3waker Forend upgrades would make a lot of sense. This buttstock option has been around for a few years. Attached File |
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Quoted: @DavidY I paid $110 for mine in 1988. It was the first pistol that I purchased myself, but not my first handgun. It was reliable when I used it in the first few years. I’ve carried it far more than shot it though. I actually ran the steel plates at 15 yards on an IPSC course once - a clean run of 6/6. The holster is a modified snubnose holster from the same era. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/130695/IMG_4280_jpeg-3435715.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/130695/IMG_4281_jpeg-3435716.JPG Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Grendel P-10 came out in 1988. Top loader / M16 stripper clips: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/130695/IMG_4250_jpeg-3434580.JPG I saw a Grendel at GT Distributors a few weeks ago and was so excited until I saw it was the box fed magazine version @DavidY I paid $110 for mine in 1988. It was the first pistol that I purchased myself, but not my first handgun. It was reliable when I used it in the first few years. I’ve carried it far more than shot it though. I actually ran the steel plates at 15 yards on an IPSC course once - a clean run of 6/6. The holster is a modified snubnose holster from the same era. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/130695/IMG_4280_jpeg-3435715.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/130695/IMG_4281_jpeg-3435716.JPG Sweet! Needs more sheet metal screws
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Quoted: Any law that limits 'magazine's also applies to fixed mags. Unless it's written specifically 'detachable mag' or with a fixed mag exception. CO already has a 15 round limit that would probably ban this keltec There also is a recoil operated exception that allows most 15 rd detachable mag pistols anyway I hope it does but I wouldn't believe this helps anybody without seeing the full text of their ban(s) More fixed mag CARBINE options would help a lot more. Quoted: Quoted: Might not help you - Colorado is looking at a detachable magazine semi-auto ban. Also helps anyone visiting Portland: 1) Legal to OC in Oregon w/ a permit; 2) Illegal to OC in Portland w/ a loaded magazine on yer person; 3) Nobody's gonna snatch a Kel-Tec off of ya. Any law that limits 'magazine's also applies to fixed mags. Unless it's written specifically 'detachable mag' or with a fixed mag exception. CO already has a 15 round limit that would probably ban this keltec There also is a recoil operated exception that allows most 15 rd detachable mag pistols anyway I hope it does but I wouldn't believe this helps anybody without seeing the full text of their ban(s) More fixed mag CARBINE options would help a lot more. Pretty easy to limit capacity on the magazine. I'm sure they'll have gay state options. It hasn't even shipped to distributors yet. They'll need a 20 lb Massachusetts gay trigger option too. |
 That honestly made me laugh |
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Quoted: What's the 5.7 power equivalent to in common handgun cartridges? More or less out of handgun, you have all the massive power of a .22 Magnum rifle. (Any moment now a fanboy will be along to tell me I'm horribly wrong because the 123ABC bullet that has a tasty dark chocolate coating and only made by one manufacturer for three days a year, magically boosts the power level by a factor of 12) |
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Quoted: You don’t need a permit to OC in Oregon. Quoted: Quoted: 1) Legal to OC in Oregon w/ a permit; You don’t need a permit to OC in Oregon. Exactly. But you can't OC in Portland Oregon w/ a loaded magazine, Sadly, it doesn't - see below. |
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Quoted: More or less out of handgun, you have all the massive power of a .22 Magnum rifle. (Any moment now a fanboy will be along to tell me I'm horribly wrong because the 123ABC bullet that has a tasty dark chocolate coating and only made by one manufacturer for three days a year, magically boosts the power level by a factor of 12) It's not perfect, but a lot of people have killed a lot of deer w/ 22 Mag rifles over the years. Everything is a compromise. I think these pistols will sell to the people who buy weird shit. I'm one of those. It'll sell to people who like 5.7 but don't want to buy a lot of mags. It's simpler. It'll sell to people who want a small/light gun and don't carry reloads. There are a lot of people out there who carry a gun w/ no reloads. I don't know if there are enough of those groups to make it a success. |
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Quoted: It's not perfect, but a lot of people have killed a lot of deer w/ 22 Mag rifles over the years. Everything is a compromise. I think these pistols will sell to the people who buy weird shit. I'm one of those. It'll sell to people who like 5.7 but don't want to buy a lot of mags. It's simpler. It'll sell to people who want a small/light gun and don't carry reloads. There are a lot of people out there who carry a gun w/ no reloads. I don't know if there are enough of those groups to make it a success. Oh, you don't have to sell me on the .22 magnum out of a rifle, I kill hogs with it regularly. I'm not going to use it as self defense against somebody that wants to kill me first. A little more "oomph" is required. |
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Quoted: Exactly. But you can't OC in Portland Oregon w/ a loaded magazine, which this gun answers the mail for. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1) Legal to OC in Oregon w/ a permit; You don’t need a permit to OC in Oregon. Exactly. But you can't OC in Portland Oregon w/ a loaded magazine, which this gun answers the mail for. The pistol still has a magazine, just a non-removable one  I doubt the OC law makes a distinction between fixed and removable mags. |
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Quoted: Oh, you don't have to sell me on the .22 magnum out of a rifle, I kill hogs with it regularly. I'm not going to use it as self defense against somebody that wants to kill me first. A little more "oomph" is required. Quoted: Quoted: It's not perfect, but a lot of people have killed a lot of deer w/ 22 Mag rifles over the years. Everything is a compromise. I think these pistols will sell to the people who buy weird shit. I'm one of those. It'll sell to people who like 5.7 but don't want to buy a lot of mags. It's simpler. It'll sell to people who want a small/light gun and don't carry reloads. There are a lot of people out there who carry a gun w/ no reloads. I don't know if there are enough of those groups to make it a success. Oh, you don't have to sell me on the .22 magnum out of a rifle, I kill hogs with it regularly. I'm not going to use it as self defense against somebody that wants to kill me first. A little more "oomph" is required. I would not feel under gunned with 20 rounds of 5.7 or 30 rounds of .22 magnum. An awful lot of people got killed by 5.7 from a pistol at Ft. Hood. |
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I don't want to like it, because of consistently bad experiences with Kel-Tec products I've purchased in the past, but I am finding hard to dislike it This thing has the sight radius of a Glock 17, grip length of a Glock 19, the capacity of a Ruger-57, the width of a single-stack, the weight of an airweight j-frame, the recoil of a .22lr, and arguably the lethality of older 9mm loads (judging by the performance in the FBI cartridge testing a few years back) It is a pocket-weight gun with the ergonomics of a duty-sized gun and the capacity of 20+1 without needing to carry reloads, and there are reliability advantages to an internal magazine. And it's MSRP is under $400, making it easily the cheapest 5.7mm gun on the market. It even comes with an optics plate. I really hope Kel-Tec nails the landing with this one. |
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Quoted: The pistol still has a magazine, just a non-removable one I doubt the OC law makes a distinction between fixed and removable mags. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1) Legal to OC in Oregon w/ a permit; You don’t need a permit to OC in Oregon. Exactly. But you can't OC in Portland Oregon w/ a loaded magazine, which this gun answers the mail for. The pistol still has a magazine, just a non-removable one I doubt the OC law makes a distinction between fixed and removable mags. It doesn't - you can OC your Glock unloaded, but your removable magazine (and clips, dammit!) ALSO has to be unloaded. With the KelTec, you can OC it unloaded - but you're not carrying ammunition in a magazine. You're carrying ammunition on clips. |
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Quoted: It is a pocket-weight gun with the ergonomics of a duty-sized gun and the capacity of 20+1 without needing to carry reloads, and there are reliability advantages to an internal magazine. |
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Quoted: It doesn't - you can OC your Glock unloaded, but your removable magazine ALSO has to be unloaded. With the KelTec, you can OC it unloaded - but you're not carrying ammunition in a magazine. You're carrying ammunition on clips. Quoted: It doesn't - you can OC your Glock unloaded, but your removable magazine ALSO has to be unloaded. With the KelTec, you can OC it unloaded - but you're not carrying ammunition in a magazine. You're carrying ammunition on clips. B. It is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess or carry a firearm and that firearm’s clip or magazine, in or upon a public place, including while in a vehicle in a public place, recklessly having failed to remove all the ammunition from the clip or magazine. The law says mag OR clip. |
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Quoted: The law says mag OR clip. Quoted: Quoted: It doesn't - you can OC your Glock unloaded, but your removable magazine ALSO has to be unloaded. With the KelTec, you can OC it unloaded - but you're not carrying ammunition in a magazine. You're carrying ammunition on clips. B. It is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess or carry a firearm and that firearm’s clip or magazine, in or upon a public place, including while in a vehicle in a public place, recklessly having failed to remove all the ammunition from the clip or magazine. The law says mag OR clip. Well, shit, that's disappointing. Are speedloaders clips? Thanks for the correction - I try to keep up w/ all the various bans, but this is a detail I missed. |