[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Home explosions continue across the country, catastrophic trend shows no signs of stopping -CBS (Page 3 of 4)
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Quoted: They're not just looking to cut off the supply, they're looking to dismantle the infrastructure. Can't do that until everything is electric. Well, "they're" doing a shitty job: natural gas infrastructure is expanding like crazy around here, and that's expected to continue for at least a decade. |
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Quoted: I think this is the article on it? https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/man-charged-in-deadly-virginia-explosion-mishandled-propane-leak-documents-say/3748959/ "Roger Bentley, a former employee of agricultural retailer Southern States Cooperative, was indicted on charges of involuntary manslaughter, "unlawful release of hazardous materials, namely, liquified petroleum gas" and related charges, Loudoun County officials said Tuesday. A leak from a 500-gallon underground propane tank caused the explosion that destroyed the house on Silver Ridge Drive on Feb. 16 and killed 45-year-old Trevor Brown, the Loudoun County Combined Fire and Rescue System said. Eleven first responders were hurt. Two people who lived at the home got out before the blast, but suffered minor injuries. According to the indictment, Bentley was not properly certified to transfer the propane that leaked before the explosion." Why isn't his employer being charged as well? |
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More people are DIY’ing and cutting corners. Trade skill “know how” is going down. Fatalities will go up because of that. From gas, electric, etc. It’s what happens when you have a population trying to save money because there’s not as much of it. And your talent pool of people to do “things” goes down. 5 of those deaths happened in my town. 1 caused a 100+ year old building to get demolished downtown. And it was because of uncertified construction. The house that blew up killing 4, was DIY by nature. And under a mile from my house. This is a direct look at how government can make “bad times.” |
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Quoted: That’s not true, knob and tube or cloth covered wiring (they’re not the same thing,although can be found together) don’t create a non sellable home. It can be harder to get insurance in certain markets but even that isn’t super common. Service and breaker boxes are a bigger concern than that style wiring. And all of it is better than that late 60s early 70s aluminum wiring. THAT shit will burn your house down. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This plus 31 years. I have seen very old homes with wiring that would scare the crap out of any rational person. Old electrical wiring wrapped in a paper sheathing is most likely referred to as "cloth wiring" or "knob and tube wiring," A fire trap for sure. It has been illegal to sell a home with this type of wiring for years but it still pops up. You must bring the wiring up to code before it can be sold. An old friend of mine had to spend thousands of dollars on a home he inherited before he could sell it. That’s not true, knob and tube or cloth covered wiring (they’re not the same thing,although can be found together) don’t create a non sellable home. It can be harder to get insurance in certain markets but even that isn’t super common. Service and breaker boxes are a bigger concern than that style wiring. And all of it is better than that late 60s early 70s aluminum wiring. THAT shit will burn your house down. Yeah, a ton of houses still sell around here with the old cloth covered wiring. As long as the breaker box is updated, they sell just fine. |
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Quoted: @M1Zeppelin As far as I know he’s recovered physically, but mentally he’s still not well. I don’t think he’s gone back to duty. He’s a volunteer and a school teacher for the county. I’m not sure if he’s gone back to teaching yet. My boss just returned to duty back in October. There was another volunteer, a girl who was right next to Trevor, the dead firefighter, the blast knocked her back and broke her leg. She’s the one who crawled back up to him first and tried to render aid but it was obvious he was gone. She’s recovered physically, but she’s got some mental stuff we’re helping her with. These 3 guys were the most seriously injured. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There was somebody here who is a retired firefighter that had a guy from his old department get severely burnt from a house explosion. If I remember correctly, another firefighter was killed. It’s a very real problem. That was me, I just saw the video come across my YouTube feed. The firefighter fatality mentioned at 4:50 in the video is my old department. 11 guys total got hurt, 1 with severe burns, plus the two homeowners. My former boss got burned up and trapped in the basement but his burns weren’t as bad as the other guy. The dead guy had the unfortunate circumstance of standing in the front door right at the moment of the blast and took the full brunt of the pressure wave. DRT. They just charged the propane delivery driver with manslaughter over it. The gentleman that you had mentioned awhile back on here that was in the burn ward. How’s he doing now? I knew it sounded like a slow and painful road for awhile. @M1Zeppelin As far as I know he’s recovered physically, but mentally he’s still not well. I don’t think he’s gone back to duty. He’s a volunteer and a school teacher for the county. I’m not sure if he’s gone back to teaching yet. My boss just returned to duty back in October. There was another volunteer, a girl who was right next to Trevor, the dead firefighter, the blast knocked her back and broke her leg. She’s the one who crawled back up to him first and tried to render aid but it was obvious he was gone. She’s recovered physically, but she’s got some mental stuff we’re helping her with. These 3 guys were the most seriously injured. @jolly83 I’m glad to hear they’re doing ok. The mental healing is a beast and I hope the best for all involved. |
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Quoted: I remember years ago when a house exploded on the block near my Aunt & Uncles house from a gas leak. They weren't right next to it but close enough that the concussive force cracked their walls. One exploded just over a mile from my house in the late 90s or early 00s. I thought someone drove through the side of our house. A buddy lived about ¼ mile on the other side of that house and had all of his windows blown out. It was an old farm house that was vacant because the old lady that lived there had already died a month or so before, thankfully. |
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Quoted: I've been toned out to many structure fires and have never seen one caused by gas. I've seen plenty caused by electricity though. I’m in the same boat. Most fires are electrically caused outside of arson or negligence in my experience. Although living in an old town with extremely dated utilities makes one stop and pause a little more when it comes to the routine gas leak calls. |
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Don't know if it was mentioned yet. There is a town in the Bay Area (Alameda), that had a whole city block burn due to Gas. IIRC it was a faulty regulator on PG&E's line, street level. That caused a surge that each home affected couldn't handle. One guy said he woke up to a jet of flame shooting out of his water heater. It is not the safest way thats for sure. |
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Sounds to me like the large natural gas bill most of us pay should be going toward repairing old lines and systems. Can’t have lines 50 years old and expect them to last forever. With the exception of people who do stupid things inside their house this is on the companies who supply the gas. I’m sure they fix some lines but I doubt it’s as many as truly need to be replaced. You can’t take peoples money and never fix issues. |
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Quoted: Why isn't his employer being charged as well? Quoted: Quoted: I think this is the article on it? https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/man-charged-in-deadly-virginia-explosion-mishandled-propane-leak-documents-say/3748959/ "Roger Bentley, a former employee of agricultural retailer Southern States Cooperative, was indicted on charges of involuntary manslaughter, "unlawful release of hazardous materials, namely, liquified petroleum gas" and related charges, Loudoun County officials said Tuesday. A leak from a 500-gallon underground propane tank caused the explosion that destroyed the house on Silver Ridge Drive on Feb. 16 and killed 45-year-old Trevor Brown, the Loudoun County Combined Fire and Rescue System said. Eleven first responders were hurt. Two people who lived at the home got out before the blast, but suffered minor injuries. According to the indictment, Bentley was not properly certified to transfer the propane that leaked before the explosion." Why isn't his employer being charged as well? I'm sure the employer will be named in a lawsuit. Article says Bentley discovered the leak and told the homeowner that he was going to let it leak out. Not sure if he could have evacuated the tank or vented it differently. Usual news article short on actual information. |
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Quoted: More people are DIY’ing and cutting corners. Trade skill “know how” is going down. Fatalities will go up because of that. From gas, electric, etc. It’s what happens when you have a population trying to save money because there’s not as much of it. And your talent pool of people to do “things” goes down. 5 of those deaths happened in my town. 1 caused a 100+ year old building to get demolished downtown. And it was because of uncertified construction. The house that blew up killing 4, was DIY by nature. And under a mile from my house. This is a direct look at how government can make “bad times.” I seem to recall something about that. Link? I found an article saying that it was arson but no details or arrests. |
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Quoted: Sounds to me like the large natural gas bill most of us pay should be going toward repairing old lines and systems. Can’t have lines 50 years old and expect them to last forever. With the exception of people who do stupid things inside their house this is on the companies who supply the gas. I’m sure they fix some lines but I doubt it’s as many as truly need to be replaced. You can’t take peoples money and never fix issues. Large? Heat with electricity and get back to us. Learn to read your bill because most companies split up the costs of the gas and service/replacement related parts. More things about the gas system are tracked [by decent companies] more then you can imagine. Age often has very little bearing on a corrosion leak, cathodics and the proper testing are far more important. I do hate to say it but for most fvckstick upper management dicks, these areas are one of the places poorly ran companies cut corners in. Training, personal, experienced long term employees retiring and no replacements hired or trained........ It HONESTLY takes years to be trained well, especially cross trained so one can recognize issues early on and get the correct personal and material on site. |
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Quoted: Interesting timing on this thread. We have a plumbing company coming out tomorrow to replace our service line and replace all the gas lines under our house. No problems, it's just old ,so preventive maintenance. This is the way. My question is how many of these houses are owned versus being rented. Just a thought. |
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Quoted: 23 fatalities out of 350,000,000 people. I will take the risk. Quoted: 23 fatalities out of 350,000,000 people. I will take the risk. iF iT sAvEs JuSt OnE lIfE... is going to result in all of us living in caves |
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Quoted: This is the way. My question is how many of these houses are owned versus being rented. Just a thought. Quoted: Quoted: Interesting timing on this thread. We have a plumbing company coming out tomorrow to replace our service line and replace all the gas lines under our house. No problems, it's just old ,so preventive maintenance. This is the way. My question is how many of these houses are owned versus being rented. Just a thought. The fact of the matter is.............if you smell gas, call the utility company who provides the gas. [most propane companies are way too cheap to both train or have on call personal for gas leak response] The number of leak calls where the customer said they had smelled gas for weeks or months, or even years was staggering. |
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Quoted: I miss SCW. He was one of the best members here, ever. Having said that - every form of heat has potential dangers. We use electric some, mostly wood. Both have risks. I’m borderline paranoid about how we use our wood stove. But thus far it has been a blessing to us. YMMV. @arowneragain Was he banned?? |
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Quoted: I seem to recall something about that. Link? I found an article saying that it was arson but no details or arrests. Quoted: Quoted: More people are DIY’ing and cutting corners. Trade skill “know how” is going down. Fatalities will go up because of that. From gas, electric, etc. It’s what happens when you have a population trying to save money because there’s not as much of it. And your talent pool of people to do “things” goes down. 5 of those deaths happened in my town. 1 caused a 100+ year old building to get demolished downtown. And it was because of uncertified construction. The house that blew up killing 4, was DIY by nature. And under a mile from my house. This is a direct look at how government can make “bad times.” I seem to recall something about that. Link? I found an article saying that it was arson but no details or arrests. Https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/ellsworth-news/victims-identified-in-ellsworth-home-explosion/ Propane. From what I heard at the local hardware store, the furnace hadn’t been working for months. The kids moved back in with the parents, which is why they were there. Just married. The old man was trying to get the furnace working since it was cold that weekend. Kinda Opsec’d where I live, but whatever. I used to own the farm about 300 yards away by air. |
 Repo Man: Sometimes people just explode |
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Quoted: I guess the leveled house with a dead child in it down the road is just bullshit right? Those 60+ year old pipes failing are also fake and gay.  Im not for banning gas, dont get me wrong. Im for fixing our infrastructure before it kills me. Quoted: Quoted: Fear porn to drum up support for banning gas in homes, now that it’s a climate change boogeyman I guess the leveled house with a dead child in it down the road is just bullshit right? Those 60+ year old pipes failing are also fake and gay. Im not for banning gas, dont get me wrong. Im for fixing our infrastructure before it kills me. Typical gd drama llama. Scared of his own shadow because of a 1:1,000,000,000,000 chance his skawy howse is gonna bwow up. |
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Quoted: How did that happen? What, exactly, did the propane guy do or neglect to do that caused the explosion? The only two things I can think of is: A) didn't check for leaks when filling a tank that had not had pressure for a while. B) Overfilled the tank that allowed liquid to get past the regulator. |
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Quoted: Typical gd drama llama. Scared of his own shadow because of a 1:1,000,000,000,000 chance his skawy howse is gonna bwow up. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fear porn to drum up support for banning gas in homes, now that it’s a climate change boogeyman I guess the leveled house with a dead child in it down the road is just bullshit right? Those 60+ year old pipes failing are also fake and gay. Im not for banning gas, dont get me wrong. Im for fixing our infrastructure before it kills me. Typical gd drama llama. Scared of his own shadow because of a 1:1,000,000,000,000 chance his skawy howse is gonna bwow up. If they only knew that the max pressure inside a house is around 11-14 IWC for propane or a standard pressure NG system and 7 IWC for medium pressure systems. We are talking a MAX of 1/2 pound of pressure, easily stopped by the thumb or finger of a two year old. One doesn't get a leak in a house and watch it blow up 30 seconds later. And NG is hard to get to blow unless you realize NG is lighter then air and the highest concentration will be in the highest areas of the house, it always wants to get out. Gasoline is the scary one in vapor form, it amazes me how casually even knowledgeable people treat it, especially inside where vapors can pool and ignite extremely easily. |
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Quoted: Https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/ellsworth-news/victims-identified-in-ellsworth-home-explosion/ Propane. From what I heard at the local hardware store, the furnace hadn’t been working for months. The kids moved back in with the parents, which is why they were there. Just married. The old man was trying to get the furnace working since it was cold that weekend. Kinda Opsec’d where I live, but whatever. I used to own the farm about 300 yards away by air. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: More people are DIY’ing and cutting corners. Trade skill “know how” is going down. Fatalities will go up because of that. From gas, electric, etc. It’s what happens when you have a population trying to save money because there’s not as much of it. And your talent pool of people to do “things” goes down. 5 of those deaths happened in my town. 1 caused a 100+ year old building to get demolished downtown. And it was because of uncertified construction. The house that blew up killing 4, was DIY by nature. And under a mile from my house. This is a direct look at how government can make “bad times.” I seem to recall something about that. Link? I found an article saying that it was arson but no details or arrests. Https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/ellsworth-news/victims-identified-in-ellsworth-home-explosion/ Propane. From what I heard at the local hardware store, the furnace hadn’t been working for months. The kids moved back in with the parents, which is why they were there. Just married. The old man was trying to get the furnace working since it was cold that weekend. Kinda Opsec’d where I live, but whatever. I used to own the farm about 300 yards away by air. Thanks! So, it really wasn't arson? Wonder what made them think it was? |
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Couple years ago I replaced my gas water heater. I did leak test all good. But I’m paranoid so I got a sniffer and checked. Water heater lines were fine, but i had readings of 400ppm throughout my house. Roughly 50,000ppm is LEL. I traced the leak to the main line coming into my house. It was leaking at the first connection. I tightened the connection a quarter turn and the leak stopped. My house is only 10 years old, I’m the only owner, zero work has ever been done on anything gas related until I replaced the water heater. I’m guessing that connection had been leaking since we had the house built. Had I not replaced my water heater, I never would have checked anything with sniffer. I think I’m going to check my shit again with a sniffer this week. |
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Quoted: House in Utah blew up and killed a teenager from fucked up old natural gas lines I have a good one, a former employer of mine once got mad at the propane company so he went scrounging and found a bunch of fittings. He hooked a 100 lb tank directly to the house line with NO regulator. His gas clothes dryer EXPLODED... and set the whole laundry room aflame.... 
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Quoted: The fact of the matter is.............if you smell gas, call the utility company who provides the gas. [most propane companies are way too cheap to both train or have on call personal for gas leak response] The number of leak calls where the customer said they had smelled gas for weeks or months, or even years was staggering. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Interesting timing on this thread. We have a plumbing company coming out tomorrow to replace our service line and replace all the gas lines under our house. No problems, it's just old ,so preventive maintenance. This is the way. My question is how many of these houses are owned versus being rented. Just a thought. The fact of the matter is.............if you smell gas, call the utility company who provides the gas. [most propane companies are way too cheap to both train or have on call personal for gas leak response] The number of leak calls where the customer said they had smelled gas for weeks or months, or even years was staggering. You’re absolutely right. The problem I’ve encountered is renters are sometimes either not smart enough or scared to call the appropriate people at the fear of a landlord. The amount of times we’ve had to sit somewhere and hold the hands of people to take steps in to fixing a serious issue is sobering. |
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Quoted: Thanks! So, it really wasn't arson? Wonder what made them think it was? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: More people are DIY’ing and cutting corners. Trade skill “know how” is going down. Fatalities will go up because of that. From gas, electric, etc. It’s what happens when you have a population trying to save money because there’s not as much of it. And your talent pool of people to do “things” goes down. 5 of those deaths happened in my town. 1 caused a 100+ year old building to get demolished downtown. And it was because of uncertified construction. The house that blew up killing 4, was DIY by nature. And under a mile from my house. This is a direct look at how government can make “bad times.” I seem to recall something about that. Link? I found an article saying that it was arson but no details or arrests. Https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/ellsworth-news/victims-identified-in-ellsworth-home-explosion/ Propane. From what I heard at the local hardware store, the furnace hadn’t been working for months. The kids moved back in with the parents, which is why they were there. Just married. The old man was trying to get the furnace working since it was cold that weekend. Kinda Opsec’d where I live, but whatever. I used to own the farm about 300 yards away by air. Thanks! So, it really wasn't arson? Wonder what made them think it was? No idea. Definitely wasn’t intentional arson. Whether it was just dumb arson or not is a different story. |
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Quoted: Nearly identical situation occurred in 2017 in Firestone, Colorado. It was probably the most investigated home explosion, even the NTSB investigated it. The source was a natural gas pipeline over 100 feet away from the home. Not exactly, I know some of the first responders to that one. The guys who saved the wife were construction workers next door. That was a NG well pipe that wasn't capped properly or documented. so it was RAW NG without the smell. It was leaking into their french drain and in the basement. It put out the pilot in the basement and the HVAC guy & husband relit it and kaboom. |
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Our neighborhood had a gas explosion several years ago. It was caused by an "illegal" gas line which fed a gas fireplace. That tap point was upstream of the main shut off valve. When the house was tented and treated for termites, they shut off the main gas line but were not aware of the illegal gas line. The fireplace feed was still pressurized. During the tenting, the house filled with gas and eventually exploded. It took out the entire cul-de-sac, including the next door neighbor who had just finished renovating/rebuilding his house. |
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Quoted: I guess the leveled house with a dead child in it down the road is just bullshit right? Those 60+ year old pipes failing are also fake and gay. Im not for banning gas, dont get me wrong. Im for fixing our infrastructure before it kills me. No explosive gas sensor? I have one plus a sniffer that shuts the propane off if triggered. |
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Quoted: Large? Heat with electricity and get back to us. Learn to read your bill because most companies split up the costs of the gas and service/replacement related parts. More things about the gas system are tracked [by decent companies] more then you can imagine. Age often has very little bearing on a corrosion leak, cathodics and the proper testing are far more important. I do hate to say it but for most fvckstick upper management dicks, these areas are one of the places poorly ran companies cut corners in. Training, personal, experienced long term employees retiring and no replacements hired or trained........ It HONESTLY takes years to be trained well, especially cross trained so one can recognize issues early on and get the correct personal and material on site. Regardless of bill amount the company is providing a product in which you and I pay for. As a result the infrastructure needs to be maintained. Clearly though what you do in your own home is on you I would not and will not blame a company for what you or I do unknowingly |
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Quoted: The "infrastructure" isn't responsible for hardly any of these explosions. In almost all cases it's either operator error or failure to maintain the privately-owned appliances and gas systems within the home. Skipped leak tests, old/faulty gas lines within the home, DIY stuff that works until it doesn't, etc. It's a hot topic right now because of the environmental concerns. They're not using these events to garner support so they can fix the infrastructure. They're using these events to justify not longer using it at all. You won't be able to afford heat and you'll be cold all the time, but I guess you'll be happy because no more house explosions. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fear porn to drum up support for banning gas in homes, now that it’s a climate change boogeyman I guess the leveled house with a dead child in it down the road is just bullshit right? Those 60+ year old pipes failing are also fake and gay. Im not for banning gas, dont get me wrong. Im for fixing our infrastructure before it kills me. The "infrastructure" isn't responsible for hardly any of these explosions. In almost all cases it's either operator error or failure to maintain the privately-owned appliances and gas systems within the home. Skipped leak tests, old/faulty gas lines within the home, DIY stuff that works until it doesn't, etc. It's a hot topic right now because of the environmental concerns. They're not using these events to garner support so they can fix the infrastructure. They're using these events to justify not longer using it at all. You won't be able to afford heat and you'll be cold all the time, but I guess you'll be happy because no more house explosions. |
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Quoted: So, the one in Utah. The leak was, IIRC, over 100 feet from the home. It was outside of their yard, out of the subdivision, and under a main road. The nat gas kept building up and building up underground, I presume along the pipe. No natural gas was smelled in the home prior to the day of. The day of, the kids went to school and the parents went to work. In the afternoon, the wife got one kid from school and dropped him off in the driveway, then drove off to get an older kid from a different school. Before she could get back, the home had blown up and her kid was dead. Extremely rare, but unfortunately does occur. The odorant added to the gas is filtered out (absorbed) by the surrounding earth and the gas can and often finds a path of least resistance into a home (open sump, storm/sewer drain) where it won't be detected with out a combustible gas meter. I am aware of a few cases where this was determined to be caused by directional boring or other construction impacting the distribution line causing the leak. |
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Quoted: More people are DIY'ing and cutting corners. Trade skill "know how" is going down. Fatalities will go up because of that. From gas, electric, etc. It's what happens when you have a population trying to save money because there's not as much of it. And your talent pool of people to do "things" goes down. 5 of those deaths happened in my town. 1 caused a 100+ year old building to get demolished downtown. And it was because of uncertified construction. The house that blew up killing 4, was DIY by nature. And under a mile from my house. This is a direct look at how government can make "bad times." Yes. Answer for Rustic Ridge is right in here. Also some hubris doesn’t hurt either. |
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Quoted: Regardless of bill amount the company is providing a product in which you and I pay for. As a result the infrastructure needs to be maintained. Clearly though what you do in your own home is on you I would not and will not blame a company for what you or I do unknowingly Quoted: Quoted: Large? Heat with electricity and get back to us. Learn to read your bill because most companies split up the costs of the gas and service/replacement related parts. More things about the gas system are tracked [by decent companies] more then you can imagine. Age often has very little bearing on a corrosion leak, cathodics and the proper testing are far more important. I do hate to say it but for most fvckstick upper management dicks, these areas are one of the places poorly ran companies cut corners in. Training, personal, experienced long term employees retiring and no replacements hired or trained........ It HONESTLY takes years to be trained well, especially cross trained so one can recognize issues early on and get the correct personal and material on site. Regardless of bill amount the company is providing a product in which you and I pay for. As a result the infrastructure needs to be maintained. Clearly though what you do in your own home is on you I would not and will not blame a company for what you or I do unknowingly It is far more then you realize. Much of it just invisible to the regular joe. There are such a limited number of them that when an incident does happen, it gets blown up far out of proportion. You'd never have electric in your house if you knew about all the fatalities that occurred from it. But you do because you don't. A blurb here and there for a day and POOF, gone. More bitching and anger happens if someone loses power then ANY fatality/ies will ever muster. Take leak survey where I worked at for close to 40 years. ALL residential housing, 5 year survey cycle, trailer parks, yearly, commercial and Industrial yearly, large apt banks, yearly, build overs [by YOU the customer] turned in when surveying done, no green space for venting, surveyed yearly, That is a MINIMUM. When is the last time YOU did the same in your house if everything was working fine? Now here is the ''humorous'' bit. If you call in a leak, you are told two things, don't touch anything and to leave the house and wait for someone to arrive. We have a MAXIMUM of an hour to respond according to the state, 1/2 that is what the company wanted. Want to know the percentage of people that actually left the house after they called in a leak? MAYBE 1/2 of one percent. MAYBE. Even if the customer had little kids and old folks in the household. The typical American is a lazy dumb fvck that can't even follow simple instructions to keep them from dying. |
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Quoted: Sounds to me like the large natural gas bill most of us pay should be going toward repairing old lines and systems. Can’t have lines 50 years old and expect them to last forever. With the exception of people who do stupid things inside their house this is on the companies who supply the gas. I’m sure they fix some lines but I doubt it’s as many as truly need to be replaced. You can’t take peoples money and never fix issues. Ever heard of P.I.R.? Pipeline Infrastructure Replacement? My Monthly Service Charge went from about $5.00 to about $50 to cover the cost of replacing old lines. The Service charge costs more than the 10 ish MCF I actually burn so about half of a $100 Gas Bill is going to better the system. |