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Where does it say an FFL has the right to refuse a sale? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/14/2024 10:43:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bigbore][Edited]
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I have 100 things happening today, so hopefully someone here save me some work.. I made a quick look through what I can find at atf.gov and whatnot, but I cannot find anywhere, where is says I, as an FFL have the tight to refuse a sale. I have been told that by every ATF person that has been in my store, but someone who I refused to sell a gun to whats to argue with me. They are making the argument it's because we don't look the same.. ETA: |
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Anyone anywhere has the right to refuse a sale, FFL or otherwise, as long as it's not discriminatory. It's not a special FFL rule. It's the way it is. https://dukeundergraduatelawmagazine.org/2018/10/22/the-right-to-refuse-service-and-its-implications-on-society/ |
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Originally Posted By ske714: Anyone anywhere has the right to refuse a sale, FFL or otherwise. It's not a special FFL rule. It's the way it is. https://dukeundergraduatelawmagazine.org/2018/10/22/the-right-to-refuse-service-and-its-implications-on-society/ |
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Originally Posted By StillGonnaSendIt: And even then they have to prove that it was for one of those reasons. But I'd just like to know what was emailed to him that caused him to deny the sale. He was an unprovoked aggressive, name calling, threatening asshole. Clearly unstable. Were he standing in my store there is no way I would sell him a gun. That he won the bid on gunbroker should make no difference. |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: He was an unprovoked aggressive, name calling, threatening asshole. Clearly unstable. Were he standing in my store there is no way I would sell him a gun. That he won the bid on gunbroker should make no difference. Was he going to have it transferred to another FFL or do a store pickup? If store pick up I'd deny the sale too. However if transferring to an ffl that you can verify is an ffl, turn it around and become the asshole and keep the guys money and offer no return when the ffl it's transferred to refuses the transfer. The right to refuse a sale is not published its just an unwritten rule I believe. |
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Originally Posted By StillGonnaSendIt: Was he going to have it transferred to another FFL or do a store pickup? If store pick up I'd deny the sale too. However if transferring to an ffl that you can verify is an ffl, turn it around and become the asshole and keep the guys money and offer no return when the ffl it's transferred to refuses the transfer. There is no passing the buck anymore. There is a documented trail of me saying this guy is a moron that will come back to me in discovery if he does anything stupid. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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I'm going with the hive on this one. It doesn't need to be written anywhere that you are allowed to refuse a sale. If they were to write a list of all the things you are allowed to do, it would be so long you could never finish reading it. Your business, your rules. If you don't want to do business with a certain individual, you can do that. I know PSA keeps a blacklist. I've even known people who received a bunk item and couldn't get through to customer service. They do a chargeback to get their refund, and find themselves never allowed to buy from PSA again. |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: There is no passing the buck anymore. There is a documented trail of me saying this guy is a moron that will come back to me in discovery if he does anything stupid. Can you cancel his bid? Was it a winning bid? Is the auction over? The only issue i could see is gunbroker being dumb about it. |
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Originally Posted By StillGonnaSendIt: Can you cancel his bid? Was it a winning bid? Is the auction over? The only issue i could see is gunbroker being dumb about it. auction over, he was the winning bidder. I tried to block him before the auction ended, but thats not how it works. |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: auction over, he was the winning bidder. I tried to block him before the auction ended, but thats not how it works. Yeah just tell him pound sand if you're not cool with completing the sale. And if he goes to gunbroker show them the emails. I follow your gunbroker account I hope it wasn't the one I wanted! Will it be reposted? |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: auction over, he was the winning bidder. I tried to block him before the auction ended, but thats not how it works. |
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Originally Posted By StillGonnaSendIt: Yeah just tell him pound sand if you're not cool with completing the sale. And if he goes to gunbroker show them the emails. I follow your gunbroker account I hope it wasn't the one I wanted! Will it be reposted? If gunbroker doesn't cancel my account for not completing the sale, it will be relisted. |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: If gunbroker doesn't cancel my account for not completing the sale, it will be relisted. Heck yeah! Also as an unrelated note if you guys are ever on a tight budget and need an upper or have a friend who cannot afford a solid fighting rifle ADCOs gun broker has the best P&W uppers under $600 |
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I doubt they will cancel or suspend your account, based on what you've told us here. What's your GB username? |
“As long as none of us gets hurt, we’re making memories.” - one GA trooper to another after shooting HOSTAGE 9 times
Their SHAME has become their PRIDE
Their SHAME has become their PRIDE
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Originally Posted By Jodan1776: I doubt they will cancel or suspend your account, based on what you've told us here. What's your GB username? Cabbage - - For years I didn't want it associated with ADCO because I would get calls asking me to end auctions early, etc, from locals. |
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| There isn't a law saying you have the right to refuse, however there isn't a law saying you don't have the right to refuse. For me, I've always been of the opinion to not complete a sale if I don't feel comfortable about the transaction. I seriously doubt you will ever hear a complaint from your IOI with that reasoning. Cancel the sale, refund and be done with it. |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: I have 100 things happening today, so hopefully someone here save me some work.. I made a quick look through what I can find at atf.gov and whatnot, but I cannot find anywhere, where is says I, as an FFL have the tight to refuse a sale. I have been told that by every ATF person that has been in my store, but someone who I refused to sell a gun to whats to argue with me. They are making the argument it's because we don't look the same.. ETA: Local who bid on and won a gunbroker auction. Based what he emailed me I blocked him as a bidder, but gunbrokers bid blocker doesnt apply to someone who has already placed a bid. I'm sure I'll have to argue with gunbroker as well. |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: ETA: Local who bid on and won a gunbroker auction. Based what he emailed me I blocked him as a bidder, but gunbrokers bid blocker doesnt apply to someone who has already placed a bid. I'm sure I'll have to argue with gunbroker as well. GunBroker isn't going to close your account because you denied a transfer in person. What was written in his email to you? |
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: GunBroker isn't going to close your account because you denied a transfer in person. What was written in his email to you? I'll post the emails when this is done. I'll say I'm confident there is no way you would do business with a person who said these things to you. If it goes where I think it goes after I cancel the auction, I will be getting my lawyer involved. There is some shit you can't say when there is nothing to support the statements. |
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Originally Posted By Wangstang: After your last lawyer involved journey and contributions via purchase to support you... I'm in on this one as well. If you decide to sell some merchandise to cover legal expenses just share the link. Thanks, but this is nothing like it. When he sees the item relisted, and if he starts saying stupid shit publicly it will be a cake walk for my lawyer. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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A good start to my day. Gunbroker support got back to me. They agree with my decision to not sell to the winning bidder and are issuing a credit for the fees/taxes. I'll relist it tonight. What kind of dipshit accuses a seller of dishonest business practices, and files a false claim before completing the transaction? What seller of any product would complete that sale? I have 17yrs of transactions with the account he calls a shill bidder, and in this case the "shill" was outbid by more than $200.00. If he wants to take these accusations to any public forum, he will be sued for libel. The exchange that started this:  |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By SSeric02: Wow, Gunbroker comes through, good! Yup. Well, I hurt someones feelings when I told him he would not be getting his suppressor. Let's see how stupid he really is about posting stuff that isn't true. There are industry people here, do you know where all these horror stories out there are that he speaks of? I know of none? I actually get referrals all the time from other dealers and manufacturers. 
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I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX: OpsInc 15th Model but no love for Texas? I dont want him having his buddy bid for him. I'm sure a legit interested buyer from TX will contact me and ask why. If I can verify their address is a couple hours away, I'll be happy to sell it in TX. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By bigbore: I dont want him having his buddy bid for him. I'm sure a legit interested buyer from TX will contact me and ask why. If I can verify their address is a couple hours away, I'll be happy to sell it in TX. Name him. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By bigbore: Tyler (Not sure if posting full name is a violation of any gunbroker agreements) in SEGUIN Found him. Looks like a douchebag.  
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Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: GunBroker has no restriction on that. I think the Dude's legit unstable, so I'll keep the info close. IM if want to know and I'll share privately to another FFL such as yourself.. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By bigbore: I think the Dude's legit unstable, so I'll keep the info close. IM if want to know and I'll share privately to another FFL such as yourself.. You don't have to. I'm a pretty good Google sleuth. Tyler is "Silent_gnome" on GunBroker. He can't hide. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Yeah, whats up with not selling to the largest buyer of silencers in the country? Serious question - Does me checking the no TX sales box mean if you have a TX account you can't bid, or is it just a note to buyers who can still bid but gives me an out to transfer to TX? |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By bigbore: Serious question - Does me checking the no TX sales box mean if you have a TX account you can't bid, or is it just a note to buyers who can still bid but gives me an out to transfer to TX? Sorry, no idea. I would do this: Relist and add "Seller reserves the right to cancel any sale, for any reason, including suspected straw bidders". You could include a note to the receiving dealer that the "firearm should only be transferred to the buyer named on the invoice"......and state "Please contact seller if another buyer attempts to acquire this firearm". If Silent_gnome does have a buddy bid, you'll really never know. You might try and filter out sales two hours from Seguin, but that includes half of Texas' population. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Sorry, no idea. I would do this: Relist and add "Seller reserves the right to cancel any sale, for any reason, including suspected straw bidders". You could include a note to the receiving dealer that the "firearm should only be transferred to the buyer named on the invoice"......and state "Please contact seller if another buyer attempts to acquire this firearm". If Silent_gnome does have a buddy bid, you'll really never know. You might try and filter out sales two hours from Seguin, but that includes half of Texas' population. I'll let it run as is and see if it sells at the listed price. If no bites I'll relist it next year at $1 again with no restrictions. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
Where does it say an FFL has the right to refuse a sale? (Page 1 of 2)
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