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What would be your ACR wish list for Franklin Armory? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/30/2020 11:52:52 PM EDT
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So, now that it looks like the ACR may not meet its untimely death, what do you hope Franklin Armory will do to the ACR? I wish for 9 mm and .22lr conversion kits. . |
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Make more of them = PROFIT It would be one of the few non AR15 rifles worth owning, and they would sell more of them than the Franklin ARs. Add a Binary trigger, and ill be tripping over myself to get one |
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Partner with Marvin Pitts to make his upgrades (like the trunion) standard on the ACR. Remington handguards Basically anything that could make the ACR look like this with significantly reduced weight and complexity  ]
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All it ever needed was sensible barrel and bolt combos/kits. 300 BLK finally came but it was 16". 450BM and 6.8SPC were cool and all but not really what anyone is shooting. Pistol 300 BLK and kit Pistol and rifle 5.45x39 and kits Pistol and rifle 7.62x39 and kits 22 bolt that works with their 556 barrels An ACR that'd do 308, 6.5 CM, or like 243/270 Win would be awesome, too. |
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Offer it with a fixed aluminum trunnion like Templar offers. Offer aluminum lowers with changeable pistol grips and trigger guards. Strengthen the gas block legs. I think those are really the only weak point in the rifle's design. Make the conversion barrels use an AR barrel nut instead of the QD system with the wrench. Essentially this just makes it have a lighter trunnion and makes the wrench a separate piece (in your toolbox) instead of keeping it on the rifle all the time. Other than that, the ACR circa 2019 or so was a pretty mature rifle design. The brass deflector, charging handle assembly, and barrel were all redesigned to fix the respective jamming/durability/weight, profile, and twist issues the original had. The handguard options available at the end were good too. I'm not getting rid of the one I have, and I need a Coyote rifle if Franklin will sell me one for $1500-$1600. |
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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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EE: 100% (120)
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Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: I believe the ACR actually still belongs to Magpul. Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: Originally Posted By Sputnik556: AFAIK, the ACR belongs to Remington, Franklin couldn’t bring it back if they wanted to. I believe the ACR actually still belongs to Magpul. Entirely possible, I’m no expert. I guess because the ACR was made by Bushmaster, and Franklin bought them, people are assuming that Franklin owns the ACR now. I’m almost certain that’s not the case. |
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Originally Posted By Sputnik556: people are assuming that Franklin owns the ACR now. I’m almost certain that’s not the case. I agree. Besides, has FA actually even assumed ownership of BM yet? It'll likely be months before we know officially what FA plans on doing. |
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Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: Has Franklin said they're bringing the ACR back to market? Maybe the question we should be asking is who owns(ed) the tooling if the license is still available. If the BM buy came with the machinery to make them and all they need is to buy the license from Magpul then that'd make sense enough. I'm not sure why else anyone would buy BM, surely they didn't do it to make a bunch of middle of the road ARs |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: I'm not sure why else anyone would buy BM, surely they didn't do it to make a bunch of middle of the road ARs Name/brand recognition. I'm sure there are plenty of people outside of arfcom who've never heard of FA but have heard of Bushmaster. |
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No word yet if the ACR is still with Remington or Franklin. My guess is Remington. Round hill doesn't sound bad so far let's see what they do. |
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It's possible that Round Hill owns the ACR license. It's a little confusing. In any event, I wanna see the aforementioned weight saving improvements implemented (trunnion, etc). Proper replacement barrels in different lengths and popular calibers offered. A 9mm delayed blowback and a .22 blowback kit would be fucking amazing. An MP5/Honey Badger style collapsing stock could be cool. Long handguards both plastic and aluminum. |
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I hope to see more being produced honestly, I would love to pick one up. I got to a point where I finally wanted one and they became unicorns and about impossible to find. Now people are asking more than Scars for them when you do see them for sale. They were a platform in the right hands I think could take off for dang sure |
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Magpul owns the rights. Remington was paying 8.5% royalties per rifle. The contract is in the bankruptcy documents. That's about $150 per rifle. The cost is obviously passed on to the consumer. It was a bad deal for the licensee because, from what I understand, they got a few hand built prototypes and had to figure out how to mass produce, set all the part tolerances, etc. Lots of engineering work. Magpul filed a claim for around $600k for loss of royalty free since sales didn't meet projections. They also want to renegotiate with whomever now has the license. Magpul should just make the rifle themselves. |
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Originally Posted By jough43: Magpul owns the rights. Magpul should just make the rifle themselves. That would probably be best. Does Mapgul have the manufacturing capability to produce a complete rifle? They didn't 10 or 15 years ago I don't think. Maybe they do now. Another similar option would be a "licensed" product. Something along the lines of the S&W Magpul AR. Outsourced but still branded with the recognizable name. |
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Originally Posted By jough43: Magpul owns the rights. Remington was paying 8.5% royalties per rifle. The contract is in the bankruptcy documents. That's about $150 per rifle. The cost is obviously passed on to the consumer. It was a bad deal for the licensee because, from what I understand, they got a few hand built prototypes and had to figure out how to mass produce, set all the part tolerances, etc. Lots of engineering work. Magpul filed a claim for around $600k for loss of royalty free since sales didn't meet projections. They also want to renegotiate with whomever now has the license. Magpul should just make the rifle themselves. Magpul has more interest in making purses than guns. Over time I've stopped blaming only Bushmaster for the ACR's failure. Seems like Magpul sold an ocean front time share in Iowa and laughed their way to the bank. I would be amazed if anyone wants to gamble on Magpul's stipulations as is. Add the political climate and it's still incredibly likely the ACR is dead.  |
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Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: Has Franklin said they're bringing the ACR back to market? Originally Posted By Sputnik556: AFAIK, the ACR belongs to Remington, Franklin couldn’t bring it back if they wanted to. Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: I believe the ACR actually still belongs to Magpul. Originally Posted By jough43: Magpul owns the rights. Franklin did acquire ACR in BM buy: Franklin Speaks |
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Originally Posted By mak0: Didn't Magpul originally promise an AK mag lower for the 7.62x39 conversion? I'd like one of those. Not Magpul, but soon. |
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX: Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: Has Franklin said they're bringing the ACR back to market? Originally Posted By Sputnik556: AFAIK, the ACR belongs to Remington, Franklin couldn’t bring it back if they wanted to. Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: I believe the ACR actually still belongs to Magpul. Originally Posted By jough43: Magpul owns the rights. Franklin did acquire ACR in BM buy: Franklin Speaks I’m very glad to see that. |
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Very cool. I certainly hope they don’t screw it up. I always wanted an ACR, but by the time it was financially doable and id gotten back into shooting, Bushmaster and the ACR were barely on life support. I hope they can bring it back at a price point that doesn’t immediately render it a super expensive, low order volume, boutique gun. |
| 7000 series upper, Remington Defense type lower, better QD barrel system or completely rid of the QD, charging handle assembly that doesn't wear down the slot in the upper to stay locked in place lol, limit the charging handle travel so it doesn't peen the front and back of the slot. |
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Originally Posted By patriot_man: 7000 series upper, Remington Defense type lower, better QD barrel system or completely rid of the QD, charging handle assembly that doesn't wear down the slot in the upper to stay locked in place lol, limit the charging handle travel so it doesn't peen the front and back of the slot. Originally Posted By patriot_man: 7000 series upper, Remington Defense type lower, better QD barrel system or completely rid of the QD, charging handle assembly that doesn't wear down the slot in the upper to stay locked in place lol, limit the charging handle travel so it doesn't peen the front and back of the slot. IIRC Magpul initially said they would be 7000 series, but when BM actually looked at putting them into production the receiver extrusions had issues with warping. Originally Posted By great308: Spare parts for my early Gen is all I want. Parts interchange on all of them; you can still upgrade it to the V2 charging assembly, safety, and brass deflector. |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: IIRC Magpul initially said they would be 7000 series, but when BM actually looked at putting them into production the receiver extrusions had issues with warping. Parts interchange on all of them; you can still upgrade it to the V2 charging assembly, safety, and brass deflector. Originally Posted By AK-12: Originally Posted By patriot_man: 7000 series upper, Remington Defense type lower, better QD barrel system or completely rid of the QD, charging handle assembly that doesn't wear down the slot in the upper to stay locked in place lol, limit the charging handle travel so it doesn't peen the front and back of the slot. IIRC Magpul initially said they would be 7000 series, but when BM actually looked at putting them into production the receiver extrusions had issues with warping. Originally Posted By great308: Spare parts for my early Gen is all I want. Parts interchange on all of them; you can still upgrade it to the V2 charging assembly, safety, and brass deflector. I was more saying parts to be available, can’t find many right now. |
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I mean Franklin wouldn't even need to sell whole guns to be profitable... Mass produce the stock and adapters and make bank. I would hope they would do whole rifles, but just saying. Margins on the stock / adapter would be a whole lot less. 
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Originally Posted By great308: I was more saying parts to be available, can’t find many right now. Originally Posted By great308: I was more saying parts to be available, can’t find many right now. Oh, gotcha. The best sources seem to be Midwest Gun Works for NOS parts, and Templar Precision for new aftermarket parts. Still, there are a lot that can't be had right now. Originally Posted By cccpNyC: I mean Franklin wouldn't even need to sell whole guns to be profitable... Mass produce the stock and adapters and make bank. I would hope they would do whole rifles, but just saying. Margins on the stock / adapter would be a whole lot less. Magpul made all of the furniture for the ACR, and they are still making the stocks. Midwest Gun Works has them, and IIRC Kinetic Development Group was supposed to be the sole distributor while the bankruptcy got figured out. It would be nice if they sold complete lowers; I'd like to complete the poly lower that came with mine in addition to having the Templar aluminum one I have. |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: Oh, gotcha. The best sources seem to be Midwest Gun Works for NOS parts, and Templar Precision for new aftermarket parts. Still, there are a lot that can't be had right now. Magpul made all of the furniture for the ACR, and they are still making the stocks. Midwest Gun Works has them, and IIRC Kinetic Development Group was supposed to be the sole distributor while the bankruptcy got figured out. It would be nice if they sold complete lowers; I'd like to complete the poly lower that came with mine in addition to having the Templar aluminum one I have. Interesting. I didn't know that. I saw skyrocketing prices for the stocks recently and was glad I got mine 3 years ago for a normal price |
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Originally Posted By Reiko: All it ever needed was sensible barrel and bolt combos/kits. 300 BLK finally came but it was 16". 450BM and 6.8SPC were cool and all but not really what anyone is shooting. Pistol 300 BLK and kit Pistol and rifle 5.45x39 and kits Pistol and rifle 7.62x39 and kits 22 bolt that works with their 556 barrels An ACR that'd do 308, 6.5 CM, or like 243/270 Win would be awesome, too. All of the above and .350 Legend and 6.5 Grendel would be nice too. |
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Shift the charging handle back to where it was on the Masada, and a bit lower, rather than up front and tight to the top rail. Keeps it from interfering with accessories and support hand placement. Folding AR15 stock adapter in to that on the NGSW Spear for those that have a preferred stock. Lightweight, tapered barrel profile. Biggest issue with the ACR is that it’s a nose-heavy pig. A better barrel attachment mechanism would be great, either the same as LMT’s MRP and Sig’s MCX, or something Along those lines so a vice isn’t needed for barrel changes. More caliber conversions. 300Blk, 6, 6.8, 6.5, 5.45x39, 7.62x39, Etc. The two russian calibers would definitely help with its popularity. For 6.8, 5.45 and 7.62, they can mold separate lower receivers for magazines specific to their caliber. AK mags, and Magpul’s unique 6.8 mag co-developed with LWRC. If Franklin can keep the MSRP around $1800 or lower, they’ll be able to sell quite a few. That’ll be the hardest part, getting them to market at a price lower than similar Offerings from competitors. |
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First off, I'll admit to not being at all familiar with the internal workings of the ACR. Would it be possible to incorporate dual ejection ports and make left or right ejection easily user configurable? The unused ejection port would have a sealed cover. Otherwise, pistol options for easy form 1 SBR's would be nice too. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: Shift the charging handle back to where it was on the Masada, and a bit lower, rather than up front and tight to the top rail. Keeps it from interfering with accessories and support hand placement. Folding AR15 stock adapter in to that on the NGSW Spear for those that have a preferred stock. Lightweight, tapered barrel profile. Biggest issue with the ACR is that it’s a nose-heavy pig. A better barrel attachment mechanism would be great, either the same as LMT’s MRP and Sig’s MCX, or something Along those lines so a vice isn’t needed for barrel changes. More caliber conversions. 300Blk, 6, 6.8, 6.5, 5.45x39, 7.62x39, Etc. The two russian calibers would definitely help with its popularity. For 6.8, 5.45 and 7.62, they can mold separate lower receivers for magazines specific to their caliber. AK mags, and Magpul’s unique 6.8 mag co-developed with LWRC. If Franklin can keep the MSRP around $1800 or lower, they’ll be able to sell quite a few. That’ll be the hardest part, getting them to market at a price lower than similar Offerings from competitors. I like the way you think. Specifically for the QD barrel function, a built in tension or locking mechanism akin to the Tavor method, albeit tool-less, would be on my list. |
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Originally Posted By olds442tyguy: I wonder how much weight and cost they could save dumping the QD barrel. It’s nice and all, but if it used a standard barrel nut pattern I don’t think anyone would care. Actually, would anyone have even used the QD barrel function? Yeah, it was a big selling point of the original, but how many people would have actually really used the feature. It's kinda like the Sig P320, yeah, you can take out the FCU and place it in a different frame going from full size to compact and back again, but how many people would actually do that? IDK, maybe its just my mindset, but I just cant see it being practical beyond allowing one to build the gun exactly as you want, without alot of wasted time, effort, and spare parts. |
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Originally Posted By Wandering_minstrel: Actually, would anyone have even used the QD barrel function? Yeah, it was a big selling point of the original, but how many people would have actually really used the feature. It's kinda like the Sig P320, yeah, you can take out the FCU and place it in a different frame going from full size to compact and back again, but how many people would actually do that? IDK, maybe its just my mindset, but I just cant see it being practical beyond allowing one to build the gun exactly as you want, without alot of wasted time, effort, and spare parts. With the upper being the serialized part of the ACR a QD barrel does have a bit more utility than it does on an AR. There are quite a few people that won't use tools even on a simple operation. I don't think it would make or break it but there are people that would appreciate it. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: Shift the charging handle back to where it was on the Masada, and a bit lower, rather than up front and tight to the top rail. Keeps it from interfering with accessories and support hand placement. Folding AR15 stock adapter in to that on the NGSW Spear for those that have a preferred stock. Lightweight, tapered barrel profile. Biggest issue with the ACR is that it’s a nose-heavy pig. A better barrel attachment mechanism would be great, either the same as LMT’s MRP and Sig’s MCX, or something Along those lines so a vice isn’t needed for barrel changes. More caliber conversions. 300Blk, 6, 6.8, 6.5, 5.45x39, 7.62x39, Etc. The two russian calibers would definitely help with its popularity. For 6.8, 5.45 and 7.62, they can mold separate lower receivers for magazines specific to their caliber. AK mags, and Magpul’s unique 6.8 mag co-developed with LWRC. If Franklin can keep the MSRP around $1800 or lower, they’ll be able to sell quite a few. That’ll be the hardest part, getting them to market at a price lower than similar Offerings from competitors. I agree with everything you said but not 100% sure about relocating the charging handle since I've never held one in my hands. I would add the following: - AR15 compatible grips. This would probably be #1 on my list then the tapered barrel. - longer handguards (similar to MI) - more affordable spare parts |
What would be your ACR wish list for Franklin Armory? (Page 1 of 2)
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