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Last Thursday, I mailed five packages (none containing firearms, thankfully) via USPS to a city in the far western edge of some state. Sent on the same date, at the same time, to the same shipping address, from the same post office, etc. Four of the five arrived fine. One package fell into a black hole for a few days. It just turned up in a city on the far eastern edge of that state.  Business idea: A reliable shipping service that doesn’t engage in hand-wringing over what lawful goods are being shipped. |
“Don't post anything here or send anything you aren't willing to defend in court.”
-Notcalifornialegal
-Notcalifornialegal
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Originally Posted By Stahlgewehr762: Since this happened in miShitgan, it might be relevant to mention that Governor Whitmer recently signed a law, which dictates that stolen firearms are no longer to be returned to their lawful owner, and are to be destroyed instead. Someone will challenge them in court and Michigan will lose. It just takes a person who's willing to spend more money that the firearm is worth. |
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Originally Posted By Bret: Someone will challenge them in court and Michigan will lose. It just takes a person who's willing to spend more money that the firearm is worth. Originally Posted By Bret: Originally Posted By Stahlgewehr762: Since this happened in miShitgan, it might be relevant to mention that Governor Whitmer recently signed a law, which dictates that stolen firearms are no longer to be returned to their lawful owner, and are to be destroyed instead. Someone will challenge them in court and Michigan will lose. It just takes a person who's willing to spend more money that the firearm is worth. |
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Originally Posted By Bret: Someone will challenge them in court and Michigan will lose. It just takes a person who's willing to spend more money that the firearm is worth. Challenges cost money just like being sued in court costs money. It’s almost a hollow victory when you win but are almost bankrupted in the process. |
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Originally Posted By Bret: Someone will challenge them in court and Michigan will lose. It just takes a person who's willing to spend more money that the firearm is worth. Originally Posted By Bret: Originally Posted By Stahlgewehr762: Since this happened in miShitgan, it might be relevant to mention that Governor Whitmer recently signed a law, which dictates that stolen firearms are no longer to be returned to their lawful owner, and are to be destroyed instead. Someone will challenge them in court and Michigan will lose. It just takes a person who's willing to spend more money that the firearm is worth. Yep, that’s a takings without compensation. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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The USPS keeps track of your calls by the number you call from. So if you call 3 times in one day about the same tracking number you need to call from 3 different phones. The interesting part is they will also give you 3 different answers. 10:15 - Your item was sent to the recovery/lost & found center in Georgia. I can't tell you why it was sent to Georgia. We will contact you if located. 12:30 - Your item is lost we have no idea where it is. There is a note in the system to notify the inspector because it's a firearm, if found. When I asked about Georgia they said there is no indication it was sent to Georgia. 1:22 - There is still an open missing package search, that's all the information I have to give If anyone is bored, do me a favor and call to see what they tell you, so we can compare notes. 1 (800) 275-8777 You have to keep saying "agent" to get a person. When they ask to send the link to your smartphone say no. tracking RF294752395US missing package number MRC 26 2407 1008 Was shipped to: 4583 bee ridge rd sarasota, fl 34233 |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By bigbore: All it says online is "A letter has been sent detailing the reason" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12678/Screenshot_20260303_154300_Email-3722843.jpg |
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Originally Posted By Chas8008: when you mailed the package, was there evidences there was a gun inside? shape of the box, the addresses did they say "Jim's Gun Shop 123 main st" or Jim Smith 123 main st? Brown cardboard box the size of a suitcase, with all seams sealed with that brown fiber glue tape. Address does not contain anything that indicated it was going to a gun shop. Return address was my PO Box address, didnt even say ADCO. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By bigbore: Brown cardboard box the size of a suitcase, with all seams sealed with that brown fiber glue tape. Address does not contain anything that indicated it was going to a gun shop. Return address was my PO Box address, didnt even say ADCO. Originally Posted By bigbore: Originally Posted By Chas8008: when you mailed the package, was there evidences there was a gun inside? shape of the box, the addresses did they say "Jim's Gun Shop 123 main st" or Jim Smith 123 main st? Brown cardboard box the size of a suitcase, with all seams sealed with that brown fiber glue tape. Address does not contain anything that indicated it was going to a gun shop. Return address was my PO Box address, didnt even say ADCO. AirTags have been talked about, the only other thing I can think of is throw a cell based game camera, like spy point. It "Pings" so you can track it, and if the package it opened the light will trip the camera to record video/photos. I do not how long it will record but having a 1 or 2 minute video of the persons face geo tagged somewhere would have been real nice. Heck if you set the camera up and put it in a factory box it came in, they might not even know it is recording and sending video to your cell phone goodluck |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: All it says online is "A letter has been sent detailing the reason" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12678/Screenshot_20260303_154300_Email-3722843.jpg I've never heard of a successful USPS insurance claim (but I've never used Registered Mail so maybe they actually pay out when that service is used.) |
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
W. Churchill
Hold my donut and watch this!
W. Churchill
Hold my donut and watch this!
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Originally Posted By bigbore: All it says online is "A letter has been sent detailing the reason" https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12678/Screenshot_20260303_154300_Email-3722843.jpg Like clockwork. I overnighted some important papers last year. They lost them after one hop. Filed everything, denied. Kept getting emails that “they were still looking for the item”. After like 10 months I get a “we are sorry, your package is gone forever” and we are done and it’s closed notice. Then three days later the people call and say they got a package from me……. USPS is a fucking joke. |
“ Well, it feels like someone took a rubber band and snapped it right on the edge of your anus.” -JThompson
Non Solis radios sed Iovis fulmina mitto
Non Solis radios sed Iovis fulmina mitto
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Originally Posted By AJE: I'd be leaning awful hard on the "unofficial sources" for more information. They got me a copy of the letter stating why it was denied. My sales receipt is not acceptable proof of the value. This should be fun. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By bigbore: They got me a copy of the letter stating why it was denied. My sales receipt is not acceptable proof of the value. This should be fun. Originally Posted By bigbore: Originally Posted By AJE: I'd be leaning awful hard on the "unofficial sources" for more information. They got me a copy of the letter stating why it was denied. My sales receipt is not acceptable proof of the value. This should be fun. 
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You must play the game. You can't win. You can't break even. You can't quit the game.
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Originally Posted By jhereg: Isn't the value on something like that what someone will pay?
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Originally Posted By Mach: Registered mail requiring a signature on every courier transfer and they lose it and deny the claim stating a sales receipt is not proof of value? Is that correct? correct |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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I finally got to speak to someone at the NFA branch. The NFA Branch had no idea it was stolen, no one reported it to them. He said the NFA branch knows nothing about it or where it is, but If it’s recovered by USPS it should be returned to me since I'm the registered owner. So maybe some of my unofficial sources are full of shit and it really is "gone". |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By bigbore: They got me a copy of the letter stating why it was denied. My sales receipt is not acceptable proof of the value. This should be fun. The last time I went through this I sent them a copy of the paypal transaction and they approved it |
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I was told to open up any gun shipments at the post office. The Postmaster required it, just in case she wanted one also. So I just started bringing 2 and finishing wrapping one with a spare in the car if she wanted it. She said the higher the insurance on the package the more likely it will disappear. With registered mail, more people get to see the high postage and insurance . increasing the chances of a "missing " package coming up. The carriers don't sort the mail anymore, it's all done at the Grand Rapids Distribution center that she runs, but stays local ?? My second Bravecto pack has gone missing. This time all the tracking for it from my USPS account has disappeared or has been scrubbed. My friend bought a shotgun at her garage sale a few years ago |
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Originally Posted By scottr: Provide a copy of the credit card transaction also (or a copy of whatever form of payment was used). Anybody can make up a receipt. They need to see what was actually paid The last time I went through this I sent them a copy of the paypal transaction and they approved it That's bullshit on principle. What I received in payment does not prove what it's worth. if I sold this UZI to my best friend for $10K, but insured it for it's actual value of $25K I should get my insurance check for $25K. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
JFC.   Well, you’ve just convinced me. Unless I’ve got a MG going to AK, I’m flying or driving anything I sell or (if C&R direct) buy. This should NOT be this jacked up. |
“Don't post anything here or send anything you aren't willing to defend in court.”
-Notcalifornialegal
-Notcalifornialegal
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Originally Posted By scottr: Provide a copy of the credit card transaction also (or a copy of whatever form of payment was used). Anybody can make up a receipt. They need to see what was actually paid The last time I went through this I sent them a copy of the paypal transaction and they approved it If they sell you insurance they are accepting the loss value you paid for & they accepted. When they want to argue value (after they lost it) it's a moot point and the insured value should be paid. In reality USPS insurance is great for them but has little protection to the buyer. I have had two claims in 2 decades / low dollar amount and both times they tried to low ball the value I paid for. Best part was the 2nd time they reluctantly paid me then weeks later my item showed up at my house looking like an elephant stepped on it. |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: I finally got to speak to someone at the NFA branch. The NFA Branch had no idea it was stolen, no one reported it to them. He said the NFA branch knows nothing about it or where it is, but If it’s recovered by USPS it should be returned to me since I'm the registered owner. So maybe some of my unofficial sources are full of shit and it really is "gone". A friend sold a pair of Krag rifles and the buyer wanted them mailed USPS priority Ohio to Pennsylvania. Went from his local PO to Cleveland and vanished. They disappeared after they were scanned in & never departed. USPS gave him the canned response / did not care. After two weeks he started making calls, AFT to report stolen, USPS postal inspectors, LE. Shortly after they appeared in transit / departure scan from Cleveland. He was told the boxes looked like rifles and were found in the facility away from the mail. Someone likely thought they were AR rifles and had no idea what it was. Same PO "lost" someone's cremated ashes. Family went to the local news station and they got involved & the ashes were found quickly after it aired. There is very little anyone external can do to these asshats. They could toss your package in the trash or steal it and it's up to the same people to make it right. |
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I don’t understand, just denied outright or are they counter offering a lesser amount? Not that you should have to but, can you show through similar published sales online that the 25k is the approximate current value? I had a car totaled once and the insurance company wasn’t even close in valuation of the loss. Once I showed similar sales they were more willing to accept the higher value. |
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Originally Posted By Princeton: I don’t understand, just denied outright or are they counter offering a lesser amount? Not that you should have to but, can you show through similar published sales online that the 25k is the approximate current value? I had a car totaled once and the insurance company wasn’t even close in valuation of the loss. Once I showed similar sales they were more willing to accept the higher value. Denied but I get to appeal. I'm working on gathering info now, but there aren't many sales of registered C&R UZIs to "prove" value. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By bigbore: Denied but I get to appeal. I'm working on gathering info now, but there aren't many sales of registered C&R UZIs to "prove" value. |
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Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR: Why not show the billing sale for this sale? Accompany that with an affidavit of sale? I sent a copy of the sales receipt with the original claim. I'll resend it again along with a copy of the approved form 3 transfer to his dealer. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By bigbore: I sent a copy of the sales receipt with the original claim. I'll resend it again along with a copy of the approved form 3 transfer to his dealer. Originally Posted By bigbore: Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR: Why not show the billing sale for this sale? Accompany that with an affidavit of sale? I sent a copy of the sales receipt with the original claim. I'll resend it again along with a copy of the approved form 3 transfer to his dealer. I’d have called a lawyer and had a far more official nastygram demanding the insurance paid for, or the return/delivery of the package sent to the postmaster by now. They either lost or stole a $25,000 machinegun, you’d think the gayTF would be interested in that… I’ve had issues with the USPS lately, too. Lazy fucks refuse to deliver packages; if it doesn’t fit in the mailbox, they adamantly refuse to roll ~100’ up the driveway and get off their lazy asses to drop a box by the door. Nope, just a note that says “parcel, pick up at post office.” Fucking lazy shits, it annoys me that so many places either refuse to ship via UPS, or they charge $30+ for basic ground shipping. Not for anything ridiculous, either, mind you, that’s $50+ for UPS. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: I’d have called a lawyer and had a far more official nastygram demanding the insurance paid for, or the return/delivery of the package sent to the postmaster by now. They either lost or stole a $25,000 machinegun, you’d think the gayTF would be interested in that… I’ve had issues with the USPS lately, too. Lazy fucks refuse to deliver packages; if it doesn’t fit in the mailbox, they adamantly refuse to roll ~100’ up the driveway and get off their lazy asses to drop a box by the door. Nope, just a note that says “parcel, pick up at post office.” Fucking lazy shits, it annoys me that so many places either refuse to ship via UPS, or they charge $30+ for basic ground shipping. Not for anything ridiculous, either, mind you, that’s $50+ for UPS. This might be a rare opportunity going to the press and media might be useful. A "machine-gun" stolen by the US Postal Service or rather "disappeared" as "registered mail" Nothing gets government buerocracies moving like bad press. I once had issues with US Customs constantly frying medical x-ray film with x-rays leaving and coming into the country. I went to US customs said nothing they could do. I went to FDA and said they are adulterating an FDA regulated product as damaged film without indication of damage would result in re-exams or missed/wrong diagnosis - No Response. Some radiology journal started interviewing agencies about it for an upcoming article about it - FDA immediately called US Customs and started cooperating. |
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Originally Posted By rb889: I’d have called a lawyer and had a far more official nastygram demanding the insurance paid for, or the return/delivery of the package sent to the postmaster by now. They either lost or stole a $25,000 machinegun, you’d think the gayTF would be interested in that… There's no point to paying a lawyer yet, I'm still in the appeal process. ATF doesn't give a shit. When I finally got a hold of the guy in charge of stolen firearms at the NFA branch 3 days ago, he had no idea it was even missing. ATF hadn't yet reported it to him. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By cherenkov: This might be a rare opportunity going to the press and media might be useful. A "machine-gun" stolen by the US Postal Service or rather "disappeared" as "registered mail" Nothing gets government buerocracies moving like bad press. I reached out to 3 local TV reporters who had interviewed me in the last couple years, and 1 newspaper reporter who did an article on me in the past. I didn't hear back from a single one. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By cherenkov: This might be a rare opportunity going to the press and media might be useful. A "machine-gun" stolen by the US Postal Service or rather "disappeared" as "registered mail" Nothing gets government buerocracies moving like bad press. I once had issues with US Customs constantly frying medical x-ray film with x-rays leaving and coming into the country. I went to US customs said nothing they could do. I went to FDA and said they are adulterating an FDA regulated product as damaged film without indication of damage would result in re-exams or missed/wrong diagnosis - No Response. Some radiology journal started interviewing agencies about it for an upcoming article about it - FDA immediately called US Customs and started cooperating. The only way the media would publish this, is if they could spin it to be Trump's fault. They just don't care about true investigative journalism any more. Maybe tell them trump lost a $25K machine gun? |
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Originally Posted By mclark202: The only way the media would publish this, is if they could spin it to be Trump's fault. They just don't care about true investigative journalism any more. Maybe tell them trump lost a $25K machine gun? Or after someone in Dearborn, MI uses it to shoot up a schoolbus full of kids. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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USA
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After seeing all the mentally ill nurses, teachers, etc jumping for joy over Charlie Kirk’s murder, it wouldn’t surprise me if the person at USPS doing the claim is an anti gun zealot who found an opportunity to get their “I fucked over a gun owner” merit badge. This whole thing is infuriating and seems like fraud on their end if it isn’t malicious harassment from a rogue employee. |
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No one has been advised it's STOLEN because it appears USPS' position is it's MISSING. Is this correct? Are they categorizing the package as MISSING? Also, what EXACTLY were the reasons your claim was denied... you said you got a letter explaining the reason(s)... can you share that? If you were in my jurisdiction I'd complete a STOLEN FIREARM REPORT for you as it can be REASONABLY PRESUMED that due to the time the package has been missing SOMEONE stole it, or if it was misdirected and located/found, most states have a statute that makes keeping found property w/o contacting LE theft... furthermore, theft of firearms in many states regardless of the value is a Felony. This would at least get the firearm entered into FCIC. Even LOST firearms can be entered... those entries stay indefinite and do not self-purge like some records do. Certainly you have a lawyer that can at least demand a formal audit of the Registered Transactions to at least nail down the last human that hands on. ETA- I have it on good authority that the locks on the lockers, safes, and rooms are NOT always locked like they are supposed t be... someone left a lock unlocked I bet and someone stole it... USPS is probably going to scramble to cover their ass. Basically, rules were not followed. |
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Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: No one has been advised it's STOLEN because it appears USPS' position is it's MISSING. Is this correct? Are they categorizing the package as MISSING? Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: No one has been advised it's STOLEN because it appears USPS' position is it's MISSING. Is this correct? Are they categorizing the package as MISSING? When I call USPS Customer service all they tell me is a Missing Mail Search Request was filed on 2/14. At this point I should file an insurance claim. Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: Also, what EXACTLY were the reasons your claim was denied... you said you got a letter explaining the reason(s)... can you share that? I submitted a copy of my sales receipt, and the letter says I need to provide "supported acceptable proof of value". I'm resubmitting more info tonight. I expect I'll go back and fourth with a few denials... Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: If you were in my jurisdiction I'd complete a STOLEN FIREARM REPORT for you as it can be REASONABLY PRESUMED that due to the time the package has been missing SOMEONE stole it, or if it was misdirected and located/found, most states have a statute that makes keeping found property w/o contacting LE theft... furthermore, theft of firearms in many states regardless of the value is a Felony. This would at least get the firearm entered into FCIC. Even LOST firearms can be entered... those entries stay indefinite and do not self-purge like some records do. Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: Certainly you have a lawyer that can at least demand a formal audit of the Registered Transactions to at least nail down the last human that hands on. I supposedly have my congressman and senator doing that. They are getting pissed too because they only response they are getting is the same canned response they are telling me. Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt: ETA- I have it on good authority that the locks on the lockers, safes, and rooms are NOT always locked like they are supposed t be... someone left a lock unlocked I bet and someone stole it... USPS is probably going to scramble to cover their ass. Basically, rules were not followed. When Mr. Robertson at NFA/Stolen confirmed it was not part of any investigation/prosecution and said they had no idea where I was, my chest sunk a bit. |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Originally Posted By bigbore: When I call USPS Customer service all they tell me is a Missing Mail Search Request was filed on 2/14. At this point I should file an insurance claim. I submitted a copy of my sales receipt, and the letter says I need to provide "supported acceptable proof of value". I'm resubmitting more info tonight. I expect I'll go back and fourth with a few denials... I supposedly have my congressman and senator doing that. They are getting pissed too because they only response they are getting is the same canned response they are telling me. When Mr. Robertson at NFA/Stolen confirmed it was not part of any investigation/prosecution and said they had no idea where I was, my chest sunk a bit. I HIGHLY ADVISE you to take the documentation you have to your local LE Agency or the Agency where the package was sent from and file a report and have the firearm entered into NCIC as at least LOST/MISSING at this point. The status can later be amended to a criminal complaint if a case of theft is developed. While I personally would consider it a theft, based on the totality of things, other cops or agencies may not. BUT... what they can't deny is it is in fact LOST/MISSING... and NCIC allows for LOST/MISSING firearms. At a minimum there will be an entry that ties you to the firearm as the owner. At this point I honestly believe this is what happened: I believe the last person to sign for your package placed it is a secure locker or room. That locker or room was not locked as per USPS Policy, as I understand it, that happens sometimes by people not doing their job and being lazy and/or incompetent. Someone else came along and took the package. USPS is probably doing what ever they can to insulate themselves because should the firearm end up at a crime scene, that's why you need it entered into NCIC, it won't be a good look. I bet $1 the secured area where your package was last stored has a history of being unsecured at times in violation of policy. |
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I agree you should report it stolen/missing through your local LE agency, especially if you personally know any detectives there. This gives your local LE standing to contact USPIS (or whomever) and gather more info about what may have happened. The NCIC entry is also designed as a method to get firearms returned to their rightful owner, and it may obligate the federal agency possessing it to do exactly that. Once the feds run your serial number (again, maybe) and it “hits” on a local agency’s NCIC entry, that’s something they cannot ignore. It’ll alert the local agency immediately as well. So if the feds decide it’s evidence and they’re “keeping it” for that purpose, it’ll still probably force them to communicate with your local LE agency. At minimum they’ll have to send you a notice of intent for forfeiture (if they don’t want to give it back) and you can fight that, without necessarily involving an attorney. |
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