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Page Armory » 50 Cal
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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 10/12/2013 2:56:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2013 2:58:38 AM EST by Steve-Too]
would you precision shooters pay, for ammunition?

I have been approached, to load ammo for someone, but I really am not sure what to ask, per 10 round lot.

Let me lay out what I'm planning to do...

Start with cleaned, sized, hand selected LC once fired brass. Anneal the necks, trim to length (all the same length, +/- 0.005), uniform the neck, and primer pocket, and ream the flash hole.
Then sort and segregate by weight to +/- 1 grain.

Prime by hand, seated depth 0.001 - 0.006 Min/Max

Projectiles sorted and segregated by weight, +/- 0.02 grain

Each charge weighed to +/- 0.02 grain (Currently, WC860, 226.30 grains, for 2885 fps)

COAL either 5.450 +/- 0.001, or as required for the particular rifle/round combination, as measured with a Hornady OAL gauge. (Again, +/- 0.01) Data supplied by shooter.

Packaged in plastic 10 rd slip top box.

Shipping and handling at cost. Not really a part of this equation.

There we are, boys and girls. What would you be willing to pay for ten rounds of as near perfect, uniform as possible, precision ammunition?

No, I'm not looking to screw anyone on price, but I need to be well compensated for my time, as well as material costs. Not to mention a class 6 license...

Thoughts?
Link Posted: 10/12/2013 3:07:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2013 3:10:02 AM EST by ilovebullets]
Ain't that illegal??


ETA: Plus I wouldn't want that liability.
Link Posted: 10/12/2013 3:38:40 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ilovebullets:
Ain't that illegal??


ETA: Plus I wouldn't want that liability.
View Quote


Not once I have the ATF class 6... Liabilities are why businesses buy insurance. And this IS a business, I plan to start. That's why I asked.

Reading back, I see that I failed to mention that the projectiles are 760 grain turned brass. That is an important point to keep in mind.

I know the average business costs involved. Plinker ammo can be had for less than 7.00/ round, and the manufacturers are making money at those prices. They are making money at 4.50/ rd.

I'll be making precision ammo, not plinker. Not (oh, how I hate the marketing term) "Match Ammo." I'll be holding to MUCH tighter tolerances, MUCH tighter inspections. An order of magnitude (at least) greater care, taken at every step of the process.

That's what the customer will be paying for.

The question remains, what will the market bear? How many of your hard earned dollars, will you part with, to purchase 10 rounds of my hard work?
Link Posted: 10/12/2013 4:05:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2013 4:08:35 AM EST by Redtazdog]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Steve-Too:


Not once I have the ATF class 6... Liabilities are why businesses buy insurance. And this IS a business, I plan to start. That's why I asked.

Reading back, I see that I failed to mention that the projectiles are 760 grain turned brass. That is an important point to keep in mind.

I know the average business costs involved. Plinker ammo can be had for less than 7.00/ round, and the manufacturers are making money at those prices. They are making money at 4.50/ rd.

I'll be making precision ammo, not plinker. Not (oh, how I hate the marketing term) "Match Ammo." I'll be holding to MUCH tighter tolerances, MUCH tighter inspections. An order of magnitude (at least) greater care, taken at every step of the process.

That's what the customer will be paying for.

The question remains, what will the market bear? How many of your hard earned dollars, will you part with, to purchase 10 rounds of my hard work?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Steve-Too:
Originally Posted By ilovebullets:
Ain't that illegal??


ETA: Plus I wouldn't want that liability.


Not once I have the ATF class 6... Liabilities are why businesses buy insurance. And this IS a business, I plan to start. That's why I asked.

Reading back, I see that I failed to mention that the projectiles are 760 grain turned brass. That is an important point to keep in mind.

I know the average business costs involved. Plinker ammo can be had for less than 7.00/ round, and the manufacturers are making money at those prices. They are making money at 4.50/ rd.

I'll be making precision ammo, not plinker. Not (oh, how I hate the marketing term) "Match Ammo." I'll be holding to MUCH tighter tolerances, MUCH tighter inspections. An order of magnitude (at least) greater care, taken at every step of the process.

That's what the customer will be paying for.

The question remains, what will the market bear? How many of your hard earned dollars, will you part with, to purchase 10 rounds of my hard work?

All that work to build precision ammo that will only shoot as good as plinking ammo is only worth the same as plinking ammo.
My gun dousnt like the bullet you use or the powder or the amount of powder or the bullet seating depth or or.
You cant make good accurate ammo without having any of my guns to test them through, all barrels are different,
I have shot some plinking ammo that showed better accuracy than the so called match ammo but that's just one gun
that like it.
Every gun has its own taste.
Link Posted: 10/12/2013 5:09:08 AM EST
Yep. Without your gun, I can't work up truly custom, precision ammo.

I'm looking to fit into the niche just one tiny step below that.
Link Posted: 10/12/2013 5:14:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2013 5:21:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By Steve-Too:
would you precision shooters pay, for ammunition?

I have been approached, to load ammo for someone, but I really am not sure what to ask, per 10 round lot.

Let me lay out what I'm planning to do...
........
........

There we are, boys and girls. What would you be willing to pay for ten rounds of as near perfect, uniform as possible, precision ammunition?

No, I'm not looking to screw anyone on price, but I need to be well compensated for my time, as well as material costs. Not to mention a class 6 license...

Thoughts?
View Quote


Most folks who 'need' precision ammunition already load their own in order to tailor performance to a particular rifle, so the market for YOUR particular selection will be limited.

You'll make the most money just loading standard ammo for the beltfed and rifle 'plinking' markets.
You'll make a little money doing target quality reloads in customer fire-formed brass to their specification. It helps to do niche market offerings like .416barret, .460steyr, .50DTC, .338lapua, etc... and perhaps ammunition for specific hunting markets like African big game or no-lead ammo in CA.



Link Posted: 10/12/2013 6:38:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2013 6:40:57 AM EST by jt526]
I'm new to this, but all the plinking ammo (1000+ rounds) I have bought is in the $2 to $3.60 range, from API and FMJ pulled reloads in LC brass to new in box manufacture Federal XM33C at $3.00-3.60 per+shipping.

So I'd revise the plinking cost per round down for your estimations.
Link Posted: 10/12/2013 6:45:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2013 10:25:05 AM EST
The only way that you're going to be able to put a price on the work you describe is to start with 100 rounds and document the time you spend to perform each of the steps you describe. I've been reloading for over 3 decades and can say that there is a great deal of disparity in the equipment owned plus the steps and methods taken to arrive at the desired result by each reloader. Another thing to consider is how much benefit each "time valued" procedure adds to the real-world quality of your ammo. For example, I'm much more fanatical about weighing and segregating projectile weight than I am in weighing ready-to-load brass mostly because weighing projos has proven to be of far greater benefit in producing accurate ammo (for me).

You didn't mention how much prior experience you have reloading or how much of that time was spent reloading the .50 BMG. If you don't have any experience loading the .50 BMG, then I say that you really need to spend a year or so doing it before going commercial. Asking other reloaders how long it takes us to perform the various steps will not truly reflect how long the same task will take for you with your equipment. The easiest (and best indicator) is to look at the market prices for custom ammo and do a 100-round test to see if you can equal or better the performance and cost of that ammo.

I've reloaded long enough to have had given consideration to going commercial. The only (and it's a very small market segment) for me would be to reload ammo to the exact specification of a customer. However, as has been previously mentioned - guys that want that kind of ammo typically load their own. Please don't take any of these comments as discouraging - we just want to be honest and reasonable that it's a competitive market out there.
Link Posted: 10/12/2013 11:34:02 AM EST
That makes a lot of sense, SR.

Okay, here's some back ground.

I've been reloading, 45 ACP, and 30-06, going on 35 years. The last 30, for accuracy. I do know how to do the work.

I've been loading 50 cal, as a job, this last 6 months. I'm looking at this niche, because I DON'T want to compete with my employer. And, he doesn't want to get into that specialty demographic.

100 rounds, from selecting the cleaned brass, to finished round, is about 62 minutes. and the majority of that time, is getting the brass as close to perfect as I can.

Believe it or not, it is slightly faster to do 50 cal, than it is to do 30-06, simply because the larger case is easier to manipulate. For me, at least.
Link Posted: 10/13/2013 4:44:41 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Steve-Too:100 rounds, from selecting the cleaned brass, to finished round, is about 62 minutes. and the majority of that time, is getting the brass as close to perfect as I can.

Believe it or not, it is slightly faster to do 50 cal, than it is to do 30-06, simply because the larger case is easier to manipulate. For me, at least.
View Quote


Your experience level suggests that you are already fully competent, but could likely shave 2 minutes (with continued practice) to make it an even hour per hundred rounds. Add up the total cost of the components plus the ancillary costs like electricity, license & insurance costs, equipment depreciation, along with what an hour of your time is worth and you should have a ballpark idea of what to charge. Then go compare what you can do against what's already being offered to see if you would be competitive enough to make it worth your while.

At one time, I had considered getting the license and insurance then loading to the customer's spec via advertisement. I didn't give it a try because I wasn't sure I'd do enough business (or want to) to make the license & insurance worth the investment. Reloading being a hobby that I enjoy - I didn't want to risk burning out on it by turning it into a job. -And yeah, big calibers are SO much easier to handle and load. .45-70's are my fastest loading shell and .32acp my absolute least favorite..

If you decide to go for it good luck, I hope it works out for you.
Link Posted: 10/17/2013 4:25:02 AM EST
I pay about $70/10 for Solid brass 750gr sniper/match ammo.
Link Posted: 10/17/2013 4:57:49 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Steve-Too:

...Believe it or not, it is slightly faster to do 50 cal, than it is to do 30-06, simply because the larger case is easier to manipulate. For me, at least.
View Quote



Me too.

Easier to see (it's like a 30-06 with a 10X loup!) and handle (think preschool LEGO's).
Link Posted: 10/17/2013 11:26:49 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bushylover:
I pay about $70/10 for Solid brass 750gr sniper/match ammo.
View Quote


About the same here too. I bought a lot of bulk, Hornady 750 ammunition a few months back, for $49/10, but lathe-turned pills are more dear.

Finding remanufactured ammo is somewhat easy. I would say finding the niche to be more profitable and in demand. Maybe something with GS Custom projectiles?

Link Posted: 10/25/2013 7:03:43 PM EST
I had a type 06 for quite some time. Ins and ITARS, don't forget that one because you will have to pay it, will eat into profits.
Making custom will be hard, you will need an FFL transfer firearms or get your own. I used a local to to transfer.
It was a lot of work, but be prepared for people to want results.......yesterday if they send their rifle in for load development. It gets frustrating.

I gave it up as gun people are so damn finicky. I just bulk loaded for a long time.
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