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Posted: 2/28/2010 7:14:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2012 11:50:00 PM EDT by TexasRifleman]
RA45T's 1975 Remington Model 870 Police

First off, you don't need a lot of junk hanging on your shotgun. That said, there are plenty of things you can do to your shotgun to make it preform better. Shotguns don't carry much ammo in the magazine, and the ammo that is there is heavy and bulky. Shotguns usually come with a little tiny bead that's great from shooting birds out of the clear blue sky with 1000 tiny pellets. Shotguns usually come with long stocks and long barrels, designed to be swung along a moving aerial target. But there is no rule that you have to keep your shotgun box stock.

Mesa Tactical

Action Types and Brand Choices

There's 4 basic shotgun action types: bolt action, break open, pump action, and autoloading.

Bolt action shotgun were popular for awhile because they were cheap. They have a long, complicated manual cycle and were made very poorly. There's nothing to recommend, other than don't.

Break open shotguns come in three flavors, single shot, side by side (SxS), and over and under (O/U). None are particularly good for self defense (SD). If forced to take a break open shotgun, I would choose a side by side with separate triggers. Not so I could have buck in one barrel and slugs in the other (complicated!), but because it's inherently more reliable than the single selective trigger setup. Same reason I would not ever recommend an over and under shotgun for SD. A single shot shotgun is not a good choice, unless you're that poor. If all you have is a break open shotgu, then learn to reload it fast, and practice transitioning to pistol.

Pump action shotgun are overwhelmingly the most popular kind of defensive shotgun. There are many excellent designs on the market, and most are cheaper NIB than a NIB double SxS. The pump action shotgun is operated by manually pumping the forend back and forth to eject and load a new shell into the chamber. "Pumping" the gun is accomplished during or after recoil, depending on the skill of the user. Some people have had issues with short-stroking the pump shotgun. This is remedied with familiarity and training.

Autoloading shotguns generally have the lowest recoil, depending on their operating system, and fastest rate of fire. There are three basic methods of semiautomatic operation, Recoil Operated, Gas Operated, and Inertia Operated.

The earliest designs were Recoil Operated, and uses Newton's 3rd law "If body A exerts a force on body B, then body B will exert an equal and opposite force back on A for the same period of time." Recoil Operated shotguns by design need a powerful shell to function, and have the most recoil of the three systems. In a Recoil Operated firearm, the barrel and bolt move rearward away from the fired charge. There are two basic kinds of Recoil Operation, Long Recoil and Short Recoil. The Long Recoil System is found on the Browning Auto-5 and a few ancient machineguns. In Long Recoil, the bolt is locked into the barrel, and both move rearward with recoil, until the bolt stops, and the barrel returns forward. The fired shell is ejected as soon as the barrel clears, and when the barrel stops moving forwards, a shell is released from the magazine, which trips a lever releasing the bolt, which chambers the shell and locks. Short Recoil is found on almost all semiautomatic pistols and is similar to Long Recoil, except the barrel only moves rearward enough to unlock the bolt, or slide, which continues rearward.


The second system is Gas Operated. In a gas operated firearm, there is a small hole in the barrel where gas from the fired cartridge is bleed off and pushes on a piston, which operates the bolt. A spring forces the bolt forward again, reloading the chamber. This system has the softest recoil of the three.

The final system is Inertia Operated, which is similar to Short Recoil Operation, but a little more complicated. In an Inertia Operated shotgun, the barrel and bolt recoil rearwards a very short distance, compressing a spring between the bolt and bolt carrier, then the bolt and barrel stop. The bolt carrier is now driven rearward by the spring, unlocking the bolt and extracting the fired shell. Another spring drives the bolt and carrier forward, loading another shell, and driving the barrel forward, the bolt locks, and the shotgun is ready to fire again.

Mike103 suggested I only recommend industry standard shotguns, not specific brands or models. I agree. I like the 870, but that doesn't make the 500 a bad gun. If it's popular, it's probably for a good reason. Think about it.

Sights
Bead sights are the historic standard on shotguns, but very hard to see in the dark. Ghost Ring Sights (GRS) are much more precise and repeatable than a bead, but some shooters find GRSs unnecessary and feel that GRSs slow them down. The XS Big Dot front sight can be easily installed over a bead, and offers improvements in every way over a bead sight. Easy to see, just as fast, and it glows in the dark. The XS Big Dot front sight is an excellent compromise between plain bead and GRS. Traditional rifle sights are very accurate, but very slow (unless you have alot of practice), and hard to see in the dark. XS makes replacement blades for the Remington factory rifle sights which are far superior in speed of acquisition and nighttime use, though the XS Express type sights are not as accurate as GRS at range. I do not like the fiber optic sights for shotguns, I find them too fragile. But then again, I am very hard on equipment. For GRS, I like the Wilson Combat, XS, and LPA. The Wilson Combat front sights epoxies over the existing Remington bead on a pedestal. Some feel that this setup is not sturdy enough, I haven't managed to knock mine off the barrel yet, but I've tried. I knocked it off. The XS front is available in a "banded" setup, where the protective wings on either side of the front sight are a piece of sheet metal that clamps around the barrel, and lock tights in place. This is also pretty sturdy. You can also get a XS front for the Remington factory front sight base, or solder on a similar base with a dovetail. The LPA front solders in place, and is plenty sturdy.
ETA: I broke both the front and rear WC/ST TracLoc sight. The front was knocked off on a doorframe, and I broke the rear sight elevation/windage nut while zeroing the shotgun with slugs at 50 yards. I was not over 15 or 16 pounds, because I install scopes almost every day and use a torque wrench for it. I have since replaced my TracLoc with XS GRS.


XS Big Dot epoxy on front sight



XS rear sight, Shallow V notch express type.


Hendricks5150 like fiber optic sights.


Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies Trac Loc GRS.


XS Banded GRS.


XS Big Dot front sight, direct replacement for factory front.


LPA GRS.


L to R: Williams Ivory Remington rifle replacement front, XS standard dot Remington Rifle/shotgun replacement front, XS Big Dot sight that epoxies directly over a barrel mounted bead, Remington factory "bead on a pedestal."




Barrel and Magazine Extensions
There are several standard barrel lengths on the defensive shotgun. In inches, 12, 14, 18, and 20. This is because on many pumps, the shortest barrel you can have is 12", without modifying the 4 shell magazine tube. With a +1 shell extension, the barrel should be 14 inches. An 18 inch barrel is the shortest non-NFA barrel a shotgun can have, and a 18 inch barrel allows a +2 shot extension, which brings magazine capacity up to 6+1. A 20 inch barrel can have a 7 shot magazine or a +3 shot extension, for a total in gun capacity of 7+1.

The 18" barrel is the most popular, as it is the shortest non-NFA barrel. Many shooter prefer the factory magazine with no extension, for a lighter, KISS shotgun.More than 22" is rarely seen on a defensive shotgun, because the gun is already long and heavy. Longer barrels are needed to produce tight groups of birdshot, and to aid in hitting aerial targets. Long barrels are a hindrance in close quarters. Ventilated rib shotgun barrels are designed to make it easier to hunt birds with. Ventrib barrels are very visually appealing, but offer little advantage in a fighting shotgun. But they do look awesome. Especially on short barreled fighting shotguns.


mEnTL32's 870 with cut down vent rib and XS banded GRS. Looks sweet.



Remington M1100 Sage International Sidewinder conversion owned by PursuitSS with 12 inch barrel.

CAR-AR-M16's 14" barreled 870 with +1 Scattergun Tech/Wilson Combat magazine extension.


Searcherfortruth has a 18 inch barrel and a +2 WC/SGT extension.


Kalahnikid's 870 has a 20" barrel and a +3 extension.


Marketgarden has a 22 inch barrel on his Remington 1100 Tactical, with a +4 DMW magazine extension and an extended Briley choke tube.

Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies makes a good magazine extension, available in +1 or +2 rounds. Vang Comp's +2 extension is cosmetically indentical, but is machined from one piece of bar stock, and not brazed, so it's stronger. The Remington factory extension is available in +2 or +3, and is a two piece design that requires the use of a clamp. MAX-100 makes custom extensions. The WC extension is brazed and welded from at least 3 pieces (not including sling loop). The end can break off and fail. I have never seen this happen, but such a failure is impossible with the Vang Comp.

More important than a high magazine capacity is learning to run the gun properly. Load one shoot one drills and such. The shooter must be constantly topping off the magazine in a shotgun, because the shotgun is an inherently low capacity weapon. Other firearm designs that use detachable magazine have advantages is speed of reloading, but the magazines add bulk and extra magazines must be carried.



On gun ammo
As the shotgun is a very low capacity weapon, having extra ammunition on hand is a plus. However, it does add weight, so that must be considered. The Uncle Mike's elastic butt cuffs hold 5 extra shells,but are prone to shifting forward with recoil. This can be stopped by cutting a hole for the sling swivel in the bottom of the cuff. TacStar and Mesa Tactical make receiver mounted shell carriers, holding either 4 or 6 shells. These Side Saddles put the extra weight in the middle of the gun, which helps with balance issues. The carriers are mounted by replacing the trigger pins with bolts. Sling shell carriers are not a good choice. Too much weight on the sling makes the gun swing around a lot.

SpeedFeed makes several stocks for shotguns which hold shells inside the stock. They cannot be shortened due to the internal magazine, so I don't like to use them. If you prefer 14" LOP, the SpeedFeed stock can be an option for you.


TacStar SideSaddle.


Two Uncle Mike's buttcuffs. The one on the folding stock has been modified to fit tight on the stock arm, and the one on the wood stock has been modified to allow the sling swivel to hold it in place.


Like this.


Dragracer_Art's 870 has an AMS buttstock shell carrier. Sturdier than the Uncle Mike's and holds an extra shell.


AKSU has a Speed Feed stock on his 870 Police, which carries 4 extra shells inside the stock.


Light
Having a light on the shotgun helps you see in the dark. It adds weight up front, which helps keep muzzle jump down. But it is heavy. Important thing when mounting a light is that you can reach the switch, but it doesn't hit your hand during recoil.


SERT103's "Scattergunized Remington 870" has a SureFire dedicated forend.


Hendricks5150's 9P mounted on the left side of his 870.


M24shooter's M930 SPX with S&J Hardward magazine clamp/lightmount/bayonet lug with mounted Streamlight TLR-1 and M9 bayonet.


Chapperjoe has mounted a G2 on his 3 rail forend, along with many other tacticool goodies!


MinesBroken has mounted a light and tape switch on his M4.


AKSU's ShortStocked, rifle sighted KISS 870 with dedicated forend is a very nice setup.


Black-Tiger's excellent example of a fighting 870. Hogue stock, sidesaddle, SureFire dedicated forend, and Scattergun Tech sights/mag extension.

Accessories
Other accessories I highly recommend are oversized safeties. I like using dump pouches for ammo carriers. High visibility followers are a big help in determining if the magazine is loaded. The oversize carrier releases for 1100s and 11-87s are a good buy, as well.An accessory that is gaining popularity lately is the vertical fore grip. TacStar has made Tommy Gun style pistol grips for shotguns for years now. But double pistol grips like Tommy Gun grips put all the recoil into the web of your hand. A better setup is the stubby TangoDown VFG or angled grip (AFG & AFG2) from MagPul. It allows more purchase on the forend for more positive cycling of the action, without putting more recoil into your hand. You don't put your thumb around it, but grip the forend like you would without a VFG, but the bottom of your hand is on the VFG.


Remington 870 Wingmaster factory safety.


Remington 870 Wingmaster factory safety.


Vang Comp Big Speed Safety installed on an 870 wingmaster.


Bottom view.


Wilson Combat jumbo safety on Remington 870 Express.


Wilson Combat jumbo safety on Remington 870 Express


Chapperjoe's stubby VFG.

Chokes and Ammo Choices
I don't believe in chokes for combat shotguns. Many people swear by Modified or IC chokes. I'm gonna defer to Old_Painless.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot44.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot45.htm

I really like the fancy Federal and Hornady buckshot, because they both use the same design of wad that really tightens groups. I only use 00 Buck. If they made a better #1 buck, I might use that. I don't like anything smaller than #1.Birdshot has no place in the defensive shotgun.

And rightwingnut's Defensive Shotgun Ammo:

Running the gun

Because the shotgun in inherently a low capacity weapon, to be fired more than a half dozen times, the shotgun needs constant reloading. A semiauto shotgun has less of an advantage over a pump action shotgun in a defensive situation, because the target must be acquired between shots. A pump shotgun can be fired at an almost constant rate, because you can fire, cycle the action, put a shell into the magazine, rinse and repeat.

A competent shotgunner should learn to run the pump well, pumping the slide as soon as you've pulled the trigger. The report and the sound of the gun cycling should be the same sound.

It shouldn't sound like *BOOM...CHUNK CHINK* *BOOM...CHUNK CHINK*

It should sound like *BOOMCHINK* BOOMCHINK*

And you ride the recoil, bringing the pump back with the recoil, and ramming the pump forward on the next target. Any target transitioning should take place at the same time as the action being cycling.

Like this:
View My Video

Most semiauto shotguns have an extra button or lever to unlock the shell lifter to reload the magazine. Unless modified, this puts the semiauto at a disadvantage if reloading is necessary. To keep the gun up a running, the shooter must learn to efficiently reload the shotgun while maintaining target awareness and keeping the shotgun well retained.

If the shotgun is run dry, the fastest way to get back into the fight is to turn the shotgun onto it's side, ejection port up, and drop a shell into the ejection port. With a pump, the action is closed as the shotgun is brought onto target. With an auto, the bolt release is usually the same device that unlocks the shell lifter. So, it is more efficient to drop a shell into the ejection port, then slide another shell into the magazine. This drops the bolt, and gives you a second shot, with no wasted motions.

This is things that any shotgun instructor worth his buffered buckshot will tell you.

A shotgun shooter must learn to constantly top off the magazine to stay in the fight.

Unless you're Hendricks5150 and you've outfitted your 26" barreled 870 with a +6 magazine extension, for an in gun capacity of 10+1!



Link Posted: 2/28/2010 7:14:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2010 12:49:49 AM EDT by TexasRifleman]
Stock length on the fighting pump shotgun

Traditionally, the buttstock LOP of most mass produced sporting shotguns is in about 14" long. Some brands a little shorter, some brands a little longer. Traditionally, the "correct" LOP for a shotgun was determined but holding the shotgun in the primary hand, placing the buttpad in the crook of the arm, and adjusting the stock length until the trigger finger could easily reach the trigger. 14" happens to be about average for most shooters. This length is fine for wing shooting and other moving aerial targets, using fairly light loads. In trap, the shooter will often use the movement of the shotgun from side to side due to take two or more targets in one string of fire.


The traditional way to find "correct" LOP would say that this stock is too short for this shooter

The wingshooting stance almost exclusively uses a left foot forward stance (for a right handed shooter), with the hips bladed at about a 30-45 degree angle from the target. Not dissimilar from the Weaver stance. This stance is due to the long stock, and the need to be able to reach the forend. Many shooters swear that the shotgun balances better for them with the long stock, which moves the weight of the receiver and barrel forward. This does make the shotgun swing better, which is important for the game of wingshooting.


TexasRifleman firing an AR using the Weaver stance

The problem arises when the shotgun is adapted for social purposes. Generally, human adversaries cannot fly, and therefore only move on two axis, left and right, and nearer and farther. The need to swing the shotgun on a fairly small target that is rapidly moving on three axis is largely eliminated. What is necessary, however, is the need for follow through on targets of fairly large size while firing ammunition that probably has strong recoil, and the need to rapidly and robustly manipulate the slide to get the expended shell out of the chamber and a new shell in.

As the late Jeff Cooper often stated, a shooter can easily adapt to use a too-short stock, but a shooter has difficultly using a stock that is too long. A too long stock (on any type of firearm) puts the weight of the firearm too far forward and takes the shooter off balance. It's easier to hold a 10 pound weight close to the body than at arms length. This becomes even more apparent if the shooter is using body armor.


This stock is too long and the rifle too heavy for this shooter

The Modified Isosceles stance has an advantage over the Weaver stance in the ability to control recoil. This is the reason why almost every competitive shooter these days uses the Mod Iso stance. The Mod Iso stance takes recoil in both arms, and the firearm moves more or less straight back. In the hip and shoulder bladed Weaver stance, recoil is taken in the primary arm, and pushes on the primary side of the body more than the support side. The Weaver stance goes very well with the Hammer, or Double Tap technique, because much more than two or three rounds fired and the body begins to "unwind." For a right handed shooter using the Weaver stance, this means the the firearms begins moving to the right as the arms and firearm try to equalize rearward pressure.


The Mod Iso stance: hips square to target, feet shoulder width apart, knees bent, weight aggressively forward

This is very evident if to the shooter of a machine gun. When firing a machine gun from an unsupported standing stance, the Weaver stance is quickly unwound. Thus, short bursts are necessary to maintain rounds on target, and not off to the right. But, when a machine gun is fired with the hips and shoulders square to the target, recoil pushes pretty much straight back, and longer bursts are more easily kept on target.

Concerning the shotgun, recoil is less constant, but much stronger than a SMG, automatic rifle, or machine gun. But the need to keep the sights on target is just as important. Shortening the shotgun stock to a more manageable length allows the shooter to maintain a hips square orientation to the target, keeping recoil down, and makes the fore end easier to reach. With recoil moving the shotgun straight back and not to the side, a quick follow up shot is available, and the slide can be robustly manipulated to reload the chamber.


4 Remington Model 870s with varying stock lengths.
Top: Remington Model 870 Express with 14" LOP

2nd from top: Custom Remington 870 Express with buttpad removed for 13" LOP

3rd from top: Custom Remington Model 870 Wingmaster with shortened stock and buttpad removed for 12" LOP

Bottom: Custom Remington Model 870 Wingmaster with Remington factory folding stock shortened to 12" LOP


The following pictures are to illustrate how the different LOPs affect the shooter. Bear in mind that I am 6'4" barefoot, and I have arms to match, so according to traditional wisdom, a 14" LOP is "too long" for me. I prefer a 12.5" LOP for a fighting gun.


14" LOP


14" LOP

The factory length of pull is 14", which is manageable for a tall shooter like myself, as I am 6' 4" with long arms. But note how my support arm is almost straight, and I'm having trouble maintaining my hips square orientation.



13" LOP


13" LOP

This is the factory LOP with the 1" buttpad removed (not recommended for actual firing, just for comparative length purposes). This is better, I can fairly easily reach the fore end, my hips are square, my support elbow is bent enough to allow holding this position for more than just a minute or two, but my support shoulder is a rolled forward a little.



12" LOP


12" LOP

A 12 inch LOP is what I have found best for myself, as I can square my hips, easily reach the fore end, bend my support elbow comfortable, and keep this stance for several minutes without fatigue due to holding the weight of the shotgun.



12" LOP


12" LOP

This is the same 12 inch LOP but with a top folding stock and pistol grip.


Link Posted: 2/28/2010 7:14:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2011 10:24:34 PM EDT by TexasRifleman]

Remington Police Catalog, 1992


Factory packaging (not my photo)

The Remington PFS-87 factory top folding stock has gotten a lot of complaints over the years from shooters. The stock is an excellent concept and well made. When unfolded the shooter has a full length stock duplicating the factory LOP of 14", and when folded, the shotgun is much more compact, as the pistol grip only adds 3 inches to the OAL of the shotgun. The complaints come from actually firing with the metal stock. The steel stock arms are not comfortable, and recoil drives the stock arms into the cheek. The steel buttpad is hard against the shoulder when firing full powered loads. And the folded stock rattles and makes clunking noises while transporting.











The main problem with the stock for me was it's just so long! Being an active proponent of short stocks for shotguns, and really liking the concept of a folding stock on a shotgun, I starting measuring and drawing plans for the shortening of the stock arms on the Remington factory folding stock. The stock arms and butt plate are made of fairly heavy stamped steel, not plastic, like some aftermarket stocks. So, I spent a morning at work cutting and reshaping the stock arm to give a 12" LOP.


Comparison of factory stock arm length and shortened stock arm







The hardest part of shortening the stock was shaping the pivot point of the butt plate to allow the butt plate to swivel up and down. But because I was able to slowly take metal off and fit the pivot point very carefully, the rattle is gone and the stock folds up quite sturdily. I was not expecting this benefit. And the 2 inches I cut off made a huge difference for me in handling qualities and maneuverability.



But the best part of the shortened stock is that it seems to have cut recoil significantly. Because the weight of the gun is further back, and both my arms can fully support the shotgun, combined with being able to comfortably use the Mod Iso stance, the shotgun is very comfortable to shoot! Not nearly as nice as a 12" wood stock with nice soft rubber butt pad, but a hell of a lot better than before. I spent all day last week shooting this shotgun and my cheek is still intact. With the 14" factory LOP, after about the third round fired, I was ready to quit, just because my cheek hurt so much, and my shoulder would get sore after about a box or so of shells.
Link Posted: 2/28/2010 7:54:03 PM EDT
Excellent info, thanks for posting.......
Link Posted: 2/28/2010 8:42:07 PM EDT
This is one the best threads I have EVER read here on Arfcom. Thank you very much for posting all of that.
Link Posted: 2/28/2010 8:49:39 PM EDT
What's your beef with the Winchester 1300, why not recommend that?
Link Posted: 2/28/2010 9:10:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2011 11:58:28 PM EDT by TexasRifleman]
Sights:


Brass bead on Winchester M97 riot gun. Fine for daytime.


Remington factory rifle sights on Model 870 Wingmaster. Fantastic for shooting slugs in the daylight. Fragile, and slow to use without practice.


Remington 870 Express with Scattergun Technologies front. Great all around, but large and cast metal. Tritium front with GRS rear is awesome combo, for both close range buck and long range slugs.


Ithaca 37 with XS Big Dot sight that epoxies over a brass bead. Sturdy, fast to use, not overly bulky, and very affordable. Also available with GRS rear and higher front, or as replacement sights for Remington rifle bases.


Williams white rifle sight and XS standard dot sight both replace factory Remington rifle sight. XS Big Dot epoxies over standard bead. Left is Remington " bead on a pedestal. "

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 2/28/2010 9:39:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TexasRifleman:
My shotguns:

http://i46.tinypic.com/25q6stc.jpg
Remington Model 870 Wingmaster, 1983 production
13" LOP Walnut Police stocks with Pachmayr Decelerater
18.5 Remington Police barrel
XS Ghost Ring rear sight, XS standard dot banded front sight
Wilson Combat +2 magazine extension
TacStar 6 round SideSaddle
Vang Comp Big Speed Safety
Blue Force Gear sling
Federal H132 Tactical 00 Buckshot


I really like this set up. Very nice.


Link Posted: 2/28/2010 10:25:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TexasRifleman:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/yullose/Guns/SDC100352.jpg
Dragracer_Art's 870 has a better buttstock shell carrier than the Uncle Mike's. (brand name pending)



http://www.ams-gms.com/m7_view_item.html?m7:item=8L
Link Posted: 2/28/2010 10:39:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Originally Posted By TexasRifleman:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/yullose/Guns/SDC100352.jpg
Dragracer_Art's 870 has a better buttstock shell carrier than the Uncle Mike's. (brand name pending)



http://www.ams-gms.com/m7_view_item.html?m7:item=8L

I knew it wouldn't take long!
Link Posted: 2/28/2010 10:51:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TexasRifleman:

Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Originally Posted By TexasRifleman:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/yullose/Guns/SDC100352.jpg
Dragracer_Art's 870 has a better buttstock shell carrier than the Uncle Mike's. (brand name pending)



http://www.ams-gms.com/m7_view_item.html?m7:item=8L

I knew it wouldn't take long!


Even with the strap on it, I still had to melt a hole in it for the swivel stud to poke through.

I just heat up the end of a phillips head screwdriver with my propane torch and it sears the hole nicely so it doesn't fray or tear.
Link Posted: 3/1/2010 12:20:20 AM EDT
Great thread
Link Posted: 3/1/2010 7:45:45 AM EDT
Tack worthy thread
Link Posted: 3/1/2010 10:34:55 AM EDT
Its a +6 extension

I have a 10+1 capacity
Link Posted: 3/1/2010 2:52:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2014 8:01:01 PM EDT by AKSU]
Changed my factory Speedfeed stock to a Hogue 12" LOP and added a SF 618LF forearm.






ETA-Added a Wilson +1 mag extension. Only thing left to do is get the NFA stamp.




ETA Sorry about the above pics, they were deleted by accident.
Updated pic. Ditched the SF dedicated forearm and Speedfeed Youth Stock. SBS'ed to 12.5", threaded for Remchokes, Ares Gear ammo panel and Magpul Kit. Waiting for the tax stamp for my SilencerCo Salvo 12. Will update when my can is approved.









Link Posted: 3/3/2010 2:26:15 PM EDT
does anyone sell a 12" LOP stock? i've got stubby arms and i don't really want to attempt cutting down my stock.
Link Posted: 3/3/2010 4:16:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shiky:
does anyone sell a 12" LOP stock? i've got stubby arms and i don't really want to attempt cutting down my stock.


Did you look at the post above yours ?

Hogue makes pretty nice stuff... I've seen the 12" stocks at Brownells for around $50 or so.
Link Posted: 3/3/2010 4:48:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AKSU:
Changed my factory Speedfeed stock to a Hogue 12" LOP and added a SF 618LF forearm.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc109/Kalash47/IMG_0019.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc109/Kalash47/IMG_0020.jpg

I'm still going to add a Wilson +1 mag extension, Vang Comp detachable side saddle and sling setup.


What do you think about the hogue buttstock? Is it noticably more comfortable? I have one on the way...;)
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 2:32:58 PM EDT
That mesa Tactical rail in the second pic is awesome. Looked on their board, says a Mossberg version is in the works. Sweet!!!
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 4:51:18 AM EDT
Hey! Thanks for including my 870 in your epic shotty thread. I wanted to take a minute and give credit where it's due.

My barrel was cut down and modified by none other than Mike at http://www.tornado-technologies.com/

It really has to be seen to be appreciated. It looks like it came from the factory. Here's a picture:





The rib is hiding a bit behind the sight, but you get an idea of the care Mike puts into his work. Not to mention that he doesn't charge enough

I've since added a mag extension.
Link Posted: 4/7/2010 11:55:40 PM EDT
Im looking to get a stock 870 and build it into a defense gun any suggestions on mag extensions and sight also how hard is it to install the mag extensions
Link Posted: 4/8/2010 12:38:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jackary:
Im looking to get a stock 870 and build it into a defense gun any suggestions on mag extensions and sight also how hard is it to install the mag extensions

Mag extensions are easy to install. Lots like Wilson Combat (same thing as scattergun tech), factory Remington, Nordic, and Vang Comp.

As for sights. I like a hi-viz or truglo green bead sight.
Link Posted: 4/8/2010 11:40:18 AM EDT
If you get an 870 Express, you will have to modify the magazine tube to make the extension work. Other than that, the extension just screws on.

This tacked thread deals with removing the dimples on the magazine tube
Link Posted: 4/12/2010 6:35:49 PM EDT



Be still, my heart...
Link Posted: 4/12/2010 7:12:33 PM EDT


Link Posted: 4/21/2010 5:42:09 PM EDT
Excellent write up! Thank you!
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 8:34:57 PM EDT
Good Job TX Rifleman!
Thanks for making the effort and taking the time to put this up.

Well done!

Link Posted: 5/8/2010 10:56:33 AM EDT
Of all my shotgun pics you put the one up with the bayonet on a 930 SPX.
I had that extension on there for about as long as it took to take that picture and fire a test string. The bayonet was on there for the pic only.
On a serious note, I can get you some pics of the factory Mossberg GRS kit, the Kimber tritium Tru Dot front sight, and the LPA sights if you want them.
I also may have a pic similar to your request soon that will probably beat anything you've ever seen.
On yet another note, if you work on those Remington top folders or need spare parts, I think I still have the last one I broke somewhere if you can cannibalize it and want it.
Good thread Rifleman.
Link Posted: 5/8/2010 12:02:49 PM EDT
Of course. If anyone has pictures that will help this thread, go ahead an post them, and I will add them to the OP.
Link Posted: 5/8/2010 3:48:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2010 4:04:19 PM EDT by m24shooter]
Mossberg OEM Ghost Rings


Front sight with Kimber TruDot tritium blade. Front sight blade is drifted in and held by LocTite.

View showing tritium vial. Factory blade has ramped surface with hi-vis orange strip.

Slotted screw adjusts rear windage.

Serrated wheel adjusts rear elevation.

Mossberg LPA Ghost Rings


First production sight base. To counter high POI Mossberg later produced a pedestal upon which the front sight was mounted.

Rear sight with Magpul ladders on the exposed rail.

Profile of rear sight assembly.

Aimpoint Micro installed on rail; lower third cowit.

FO front sight insert. A tritium blade is available.
Link Posted: 5/11/2010 4:24:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:
http://www.mesatactical.com/images/197.jpg


Be still, my heart...


Where can i find a rail like thet for my mossberg 500
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 3:51:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/12/2010 5:20:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Forest:Where did you get that excellent rear sight with rail? Cost?

Thanks!


Hey Forest-
It's the LPA sights that come stock on the 930 SPX. I believe you can order them seperately here.
It is like sighting through football goal posts.
Link Posted: 7/18/2010 12:28:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By anthonyakadayday:
Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:
http://www.mesatactical.com/images/197.jpg


Be still, my heart...


Where can i find a rail like thet for my mossberg 500


Mesa Tactical makes the side saddle/rail in that picture. Unfortunately, they nor anyone else don't make them for the Mossberg 500.

Link Posted: 7/18/2010 10:52:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Warthog86:
Originally Posted By anthonyakadayday:
Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:
http://www.mesatactical.com/images/197.jpg


Be still, my heart...


Where can i find a rail like thet for my mossberg 500


Mesa Tactical makes the side saddle/rail in that picture. Unfortunately, they nor anyone else don't make them for the Mossberg 500.



Depends.
They are making them for the 590, but depending on which 500 you have you may be able to use this one.

They are working on an SBS version as well.
Link Posted: 8/11/2010 4:29:21 PM EDT
One reason I have a pump shotgun to back up my ARs is
Grandpa gave me his pump when I was in high school and its all I had to hunt with
Great write ups too
I may check my LOP, but i shot fine as is
BPS right now but I got an 870 Mag in the future

I used a pump to shot sporting clays and the guys said I should really think about a O/U or auto
Till I shot the first round
I had the high score for the day and they said I was the second fastest the had ever seen with a pump
Then I told them about Grandpa
BTW they all had a sucky day
but I was always in the upper few

On a side note I used a pump paint "marker" when we played Paintball
Got accused of have a semi a few times
We had an unwritten rule at first of no Semi's till we all decided what we would do
Just friends so it was cool
Most of us went semi later
Link Posted: 8/29/2010 1:54:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2010 4:15:45 AM EDT by Mike_Mills]
When it comes to holding the weight for extended period of time, there is no adjustment of LOP that comes even close to the use of a sling. A simple two point sling is definitely the way to go. I like the Vicking Tactical because you can adjust it very quickly, even on the fly.

A single point sling does not really help you carry the weight of the shotgun when it's pointed at the bad guy. A three point sling, while it does help carry the weight, is excessively complicated and very likely to get in the way of smooth operation.

Viking Tactics Sling at Cabelas



Here's link to a quick instructional video on the sling. It's a great sling for home defensive shotgun use.

Instructional Video at TROY Industries
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 5:11:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2010 8:51:49 PM EDT by mike103]

Specific To Sales
1.) Companies or individuals cannot advertise or sell products and or services in the forums (including siglines and titles) without prior approval from the site owners. (Industry Partners are allowed to post sales or specials on a limited basis.)

2.) Companies or individuals interested in selling or trading equipment should resort to the Equipment Exchange. At no time should an item be listed in any discussion forum. (This includes links to auctions.)

3.) Fraudulent practices or attempts to defraud another person or group will be dealt with very seriously.
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 5:36:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2010 7:59:41 PM EDT by m24shooter]
Originally Posted By Skidoo670:
I think this ammo carrier would be a nice addition for a tactical fighting shotgun. Check it out.

Is that because you sell or make them? I notice you're both in AK, and this is your first post, and you just joined.
And I would disagree with it being on a fighting shotgun. Game gun maybe.

Link Posted: 9/23/2010 5:59:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2010 8:50:29 PM EDT by mike103]
Specific To Sales
1.) Companies or individuals cannot advertise or sell products and or services in the forums (including siglines and titles) without prior approval from the site owners. (Industry Partners are allowed to post sales or specials on a limited basis.)

2.) Companies or individuals interested in selling or trading equipment should resort to the Equipment Exchange. At no time should an item be listed in any discussion forum. (This includes links to auctions.)

3.) Fraudulent practices or attempts to defraud another person or group will be dealt with very seriously.
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 6:13:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2010 8:53:31 PM EDT by mike103]

Specific To Sales
1.) Companies or individuals cannot advertise or sell products and or services in the forums (including siglines and titles) without prior approval from the site owners. (Industry Partners are allowed to post sales or specials on a limited basis.)

2.) Companies or individuals interested in selling or trading equipment should resort to the Equipment Exchange. At no time should an item be listed in any discussion forum. (This includes links to auctions.)

3.) Fraudulent practices or attempts to defraud another person or group will be dealt with very seriously.
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 6:20:12 PM EDT
Unless you have some really good video that shows otherwise, I can't imagine how having that monstrosity swinging around would be anything but a pain in the ass. And also, since it seems as though you can't take a hint, BUY AN AD!!!!
Link Posted: 9/23/2010 6:27:54 PM EDT
Ok, my bad. I thought forums were mainly for sharing information about accessories and new products for fighting and weapon systems. Just wanted to add this one in here for people that might be interested. Obviously I was mistaken so I won't post anymore here.
Link Posted: 9/24/2010 4:47:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Skidoo670:
Ok, my bad. I thought forums were mainly for sharing information about accessories and new products for fighting and weapon systems. Just wanted to add this one in here for people that might be interested. Obviously I was mistaken so I won't post anymore here.


You're my hero.
Link Posted: 9/27/2010 12:41:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AggiePhil:
Unless you have some really good video that shows otherwise, I can't imagine how having that monstrosity swinging around would be anything but a pain in the ass. And also, since it seems as though you can't take a hint, BUY AN AD!!!!


Another vote here for a video of this thing being used. I just dont get it i guess.
Link Posted: 9/27/2010 5:03:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2010 11:14:53 AM EDT by ikor]
Skidoo;

There is a difference between 'sharing information' and trying to score free advertising, and you are pretty obviously doing the latter...especially after you stated you did not intend to post again (earlier in this thread) yet have now posted a link to that article. If you want to stayhere and debate the merits of various shotgun setups like everyone else, you are welcome. If you just want to hawk your family wares then buy advertising space or go elsewhere. If I have to deal with you again on this issue, it will be in a different manner.

Ikor
Link Posted: 9/27/2010 10:45:43 AM EDT
As much as I appreciate new and inventive shotgun setups, this thread is not the place to sneakily attempt to sell your own product. Start a new thread on it, become a site sponsor, or just post your own pics in the shotgun picture thead: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=1&t=203798

Also:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=1&t=325045
Link Posted: 10/20/2010 6:11:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2010 2:13:41 PM EDT
i did just that...

-shortened the length of pull for my short arms
-added a night sight
-cut the barrel to 12" where it's more manageable
-added grippy rubber stock set


Link Posted: 11/1/2010 12:29:14 PM EDT
Seems neither your PM nor your email are working Texas...

i had a couple questions:

1) where does one go about finding a Police 870 factory folding stock
2) what would it take to convince you to shorten it the way you did yours, eliminating slop/rattles etc...of course i would compensate you generously for your time if you said Yes.



Link Posted: 11/4/2010 12:14:43 AM EDT
Any thoughts on heat shields and pistol grip stocks?
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