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Posted: 8/4/2013 6:43:26 PM EDT
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Does anyone have Quickload?
I was hoping that someone oculd help me with suggested powders for 64 grain Nosler Bonded solid base. Bullet is 0.8025 inches long. 2.175 OCL I will be using 16 and 20 inch barrels w NATO chamber and 1-9 twist. Nosler shows 27.0 grains water capacity at this OCL with their bullet in Nosler brass. Thanks! |
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Quoted: Does anyone have Quickload? I was hoping that someone oculd help me with suggested powders for 64 grain Nosler Bonded solid base. Bullet is 0.8025 inches long. 2.175 OCL I will be using 16 and 20 inch barrels w NATO chamber and 1-9 twist. Nosler shows 27.0 grains water capacity at this OCL with their bullet in Nosler brass. Thanks! Caliber? 223?
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I'm curious about the reason you want load data estimated by QL, instead of a published source.
Here's a pretty good source to get started: http://www.nosler.com/223-remington . I recommend taking a look at load data from the gunpowder distributors for similar bullets, too. |
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Quoted:
I'm curious about the reason you want load data estimated by QL, instead of a published source. Here's a pretty good source to get started: http://www.nosler.com/223-remington . I recommend taking a look at load data from the gunpowder distributors for similar bullets, too. ^^^^^ This ^^^^^^ i only use my quick load for my wildcats and if i can't find published load data. it is also useful for barrel timing figures. |
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Quoted:
I'm curious about the reason you want load data estimated by QL, instead of a published source. Here's a pretty good source to get started: http://www.nosler.com/223-remington . I recommend taking a look at load data from the gunpowder distributors for similar bullets, too. Have another look at the Nosler 223 data for the 64 grainer; 26 in Pac-Nor barrel and only 2932 fps! Un-reasonable. |
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What is your point?
Use the data to get a safe and usable charge weight. The muzzle velocity is barely relevant. And, Don't use a chronograph in hopes of measuring chamber pressure. A chronograph is a secondary indicator, at best, especially without a reference cartridge. |
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ETA: Mis-read
Quoted:
i only use my quick load for my wildcats and if i can't find published load data. it is also useful for barrel timing figures. This is the only time I use QL as well. With the addition of finding other powders that will work with the caliber I'm loading for. |
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Bend is using NATO chamber pressure limit of 62,000 psi. Powder Mfg / Distributors typically publish data based on SAAMI pressure limit which is lower than 62,000. This will cause differences in data comparisons. Also, he is showing results for 16" bbl. Powder Mfg / Dist typically publish results for 24" test bbls.
It would be nice if Bend would use the measured useable case volume in grains H2O rather than the QL catalog values. I have found it makes a noticable difference in performance data. And it may allow the addition of another powder that was was culled because of the 105% load cut-off. All in all, IMO, Bend's QL data run is not a bad method to pick out useable powders for the case and projectile selected. |
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Bend, thanks a million!
I see that water volume is a pre set and not determined by bullet length??? Nosler in their manual shows 27 grains water with their commercial brass. OCL is also different, just 2.175 for the stubby Nosler. Sounds like you are experienced w Quick Load. Would you go with data as is or adjust considering there is about 1/2 grain difference in water volume? I will start 2 grains or so below. Many thanks. PS to others who responded, Mosler has very little data on the 64 grain published, and you have to interpolate for common powders used in AR15, and none at NATO spec or 20 inch barrel. There fore the Quick Load request. |
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Quoted:
Bend, thanks a million! I see that water volume is a pre set and not determined by bullet length??? Nosler in their manual shows 27 grains water with their commercial brass. OCL is also different, just 2.175 for the stubby Nosler. Sounds like you are experienced w Quick Load. Would you go with data as is or adjust considering there is about 1/2 grain difference in water volume? I will start 2 grains or so below. Many thanks. PS to others who responded, Mosler has very little data on the 64 grain published, and you have to interpolate for common powders used in AR15, and none at NATO spec or 20 inch barrel. There fore the Quick Load request. You apparently like to operate way out on the edge of risk if you are "interpolating" to choose gunpowder. There are tons of load data for every possible gunpowder usable in a .223 Rem case, across the entire spectrum of burn speed from way to fast to way to slow for best results. There is also plenty of load data for 62 to 64 grain bullets from several sources. Flexibility of choice is easy without taking on unnecessary risk. Choosing load data for a barrel length is absolutely pointless. The gun will deliver what it delivers, your role is to shape that, but in the end, the gun sets the limits. Trying to chase whatever you believe is "NATO spec" is a pointless exercise, too. First, you have no way to measure the chamber pressure. A chronograph does not measure chamber pressure. Second, more accurate loads are possible with speed so close to "NATO spec" that the difference in trajectory is negligible; I recommend spending some time with a ballistics program to understand the effect of speed and ballistic coefficient. A fast miss is still a miss. |
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Aero,
The Nosler is an unusual bullet and I hoped QL would take its length into account. It is a solid base, very much like a Trophy Bonded, with a 1/4 inch long solid copper base. Data on other similar weight bullets is not likely to be too useful. At least it has not been in the other TBBC (original and new), North Fork, Rhino solid base bulletst I have tried. (North Fork is closest to conventional cup and draw bullets due to its relief grooves). |
Here it is at AOL of 2.175 with a start of 27 grains of H2O for an empty case (QL reports USABLE volume after bullet seat). However, a length of 2.260" still gets the flat base more than a caliber length in the neck (.229") and should be good unless there is a feeding problem. Yes, start loads 10% low and work up.
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Quoted:
Here it is at AOL of 2.175 with a start of 27 grains of H2O for an empty case (QL reports USABLE volume after bullet seat). However, a length of 2.260" still gets the flat base more than a caliber length in the neck (.229") and should be good unless there is a feeding problem. Yes, start loads 10% low and work up. Nosler's H20 capacity numbers are not for an "Empty" case. They are using usable capacity with bullet seated. They use Nosler brass for all of their 223 data and show a different case capacity for each bullet weight tested. |
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Quoted:
Wild Boar? Interesting. Quick Search says pretty close to AA2520 Looking at Ramshot Data it is identical to 2520. It is not available in the US. http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Wild_Boar_Data.pdf |
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Bend,
Thanks very much for running data at the two different OCL and case capacities. Oddly enough the longer OCL seems closer to my recent results, probably because the case capacity was reduced so much by QL when you insert the shorter OCL Nosler recommends. Too bad you cant list case capacity you want plus OCL. But the original post you sent looks very close to my first chrono session with 748. Will try h335 and BLC-2 and report back. Interesting that barrel length did make quite a difference in recommended powders since CFE was highest velocity in Noslers 26 inch tube and it is well down the list with shorter OCL Yet, it is Number two in velocity at std OCL. QL data has certainly narrowed down the powders I was going to try which is primarily what I was after. There are also some posts on the Nosler Forumn Reloading chat group for those wanting more info on the excellent little 64 grain bonded solid base. |
Here is a picture of the 64 grain bonded solid base recovered at a modest 2750 fps.
Using my favorite test medium. Two nylon plastic 5 gallon Home Depot buckets filled w water and a plastic lid. Closely duplicates both retained weight and frontal area of bullets fired into cape buffalo. (Nylon is tough and will rip wings off a 458 Barnes X). Also closely duplicates 10 percent IWBA gelatin shots with both pistol and supersonic rifle bullets for penetration. The buckets are 11 inches deep. 
About 62 grains and uniform .441 caliber. (Similar to 55 grain TBBC in Federal Tactical load at 2925 fps but more penetration). Cut in two. 
Plastic disc is from entrance to second bucket. 22 inches penetration total an inch or so more than a 62 grain Barnes X at 2890 fps. 
Spliting front of bucket is rare in the 223. Conventional cup and draw bullets normally require 270 class ctg to do so. This indicates good dwell time of over pressure. 
My take on 64 grain is that it is worth the effort to find AR15 friendly load for. Wish Nosler had done so for many Black gun users! |
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