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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 8/13/2002 9:23:57 PM EDT
The wife and I thought about joining the NRA; until we read on the this site their record. It's been said many times (They sold us out; or Who's side are they on!)

So what are we to do?

Who are we to turn too??

Is the NRA leadership elected???

If so Who can do it better????

I'm not complaining. I just want my effort to amount to something. I understand people need to let off steam, but all I read is now they are banning ak's. Just 3 months ago 50cal at Chicago and on and on... If all or at least half is true than why hasn't there been major changes in NRA leadership. Because if there was it would be everywhere. Right
Please don't reply trying to convince us just because. Make our joining the NRA mean something. Sorry for the rant I'm done for now.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 4:27:04 AM EDT
You'll get a number of different views about whether you should join or not, but mine is to join. The NRA isn't perfect and is trying (or failing to try, depending on your viewpoint) to satisfy a diverse group of very vocal and opinionated people.

That being said, they do provide a lot of firearm, hunting, safety and political information. They also scare the be-jeezus out of politicians because of their membership numbers, and when they do manage to get their membership organized, they become a very potent political force. (An added benefit is that the mere mention of the NRA scares the hell out of liberals).

They can also be a pain in the ass with their fund raising activities, but how much effort does it take to throw their literature in the trash if you don't want to read it.

Go ahead and join. It won't hurt, but also look to joining your local/state gun organizations. These local/state groups are much more in tune to what is going on in your area.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 4:32:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 4:38:50 AM EDT
I have joined the NRA and GOA both. The NRA has the largest membership, but the GOA is by far the most COMPLETE RKBA group out there. If I could afford it I would join any and all groups dedicated to fighting for the rights of the gun owner.

In the 4th US Congressional District race in Colorado, GOA sent out INFO backing Musgrave, one of the strongest supporters of the RKBA you would ever meet. She was running against a democrat posing as a republican. The NRA did NOTHING locally to support her race.

But like I said, I joined both.

You decide what is best for you, if you can afford both, you might want to consider that choice.

good luck

dave
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 4:44:10 AM EDT
NRA is the good cop.

GOA is the bad cop.

BOTH work toward the general objective.

Join both.

Link Posted: 8/14/2002 5:17:41 AM EDT
I agree with the sentiments that you should join. I belong to NRA and SAF. They might not be perfect, but they are the biggest and loudest pro-gun voice in the beltway. The SAF is probably the most active on the local level, so I have to support them as well. They have done a fantastic job with the CCW issue here in Ohio.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 5:20:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 5:39:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2002 5:39:49 AM EDT by eshell]
As an NRA life member since '86, and annual member for a few years prior, I've been disappointed several time in their stance on some issues (I believe Mr. Heston himself stated along the lines of:". . civilians don't 'need' military firearms. . ."
I have even considered revoking a paid in full life membership base of things they've said and done, BUT

As long as you accept the fact that they (we?) hide behind "sporting use" and don't fully understand the constitutional intent of an armed population, you'll be OK. Just recognise they will be making compromises.

As stated above, the NRA is one our very few resources and therefore worth support.

GOA (Gun Owners Of America) is more agressive, as is the SAF (Second Amendment Foundation) and the JPFO (Jews For the Preservation of Firearms Ownership) but these organisations lack the strength of numbers.

All of them will hammer you for contributions non-stop.

Of course, I support all of them, having more money than brains.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 5:40:45 AM EDT
There is nothing wrong with joining the NRA. For most people, the yearly membership dues don't harm the finances. I'm working on a life membership now (they offer a quarterly payment plan). As others have mentioned, look at the GOA (www.gunowners.org) as well. I find that the GOA is a bit better about sending alerts on important legislation and elections. They have a good e-mail alert service, as well.

Either way, its kinda like buying a new gun. You cannot pay the store and expect it to work indefinitely. You must purchase ammo, clean it, make necessary reparis, etc.... Same here. The NRA and GOA can pass alerts, give election info, and act as a general voice in lobbying efforts, but *you* must put forth a lot of effort if you want to keep your rights. Write letters, make calls, and repeat.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 5:59:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2002 6:03:46 AM EDT by ura_baddog]
Join the NRA.

I was a life member and resigned due to the NRA fighting against a law that would have outlawed Teflon coated bullets. I don't NEED them YOU don't NEED them. They are for vest penetration. The battle call from the NRA was if you give a inch THEY will take a MILE.

The NRA was correct I have seen my rights slide down hill very fast since then! I rejoined the NRA in the fight for FREEDOM and SAFETY.

Please join and help one of the most effective organization that I know of.

To those who would disagree with me. I hope you can say you have done something besides sit on the sidelines and watch .
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 6:19:54 AM EDT
tiredtoolman,

You've gotten a lot of good responses here. I'll echo the general sentiment by saying that I, too, have been disappointed in some of the things that the NRA has done recently, but I'm still a member. IMO, the current leadership of the NRA needs to be changed, but the NRA as a whole is still a good group. And yes, there are elections in the NRA, but unless you opt for a life (or higher) level membership, you'll have to be a member for five years before you can vote.

Why hasn't there been a major change in the leadership? Probably for much the same reason as why Clinton was able to serve two terms. People who are satisfied aren't likely to rock the boat. You see, the NRA isn't composed of only those people who own ARs, AKs, 50 cals, etc. There are many duck and deer hunters in the organization, and most of them just don't give a damn about what happens to firearms that they themselves don't own. As long as nobody messes with their shotguns and bolt action deer rifles, everything is peachy.

And that's why the more owners of the Dreaded, Evil Assault Weapons(tm) that join the NRA, the less likely it is that the leadership will risk alienating us. With strength in numbers, we can also get rid of "dead weight" when election time comes again.

Link Posted: 8/14/2002 6:45:56 AM EDT
I think what alot of people don't understand about the NRA is that is more than just a pro-gun lobby. Because of the times, they've had to adopt legislative action to their activities. The NRA has strength because it has a broad band of programs that can be considered socially productive, like supplemental law enforcement training, competition shooting, child safety, and self defense programs. When you expose the public to what they have to offer, it helps the public see that America's gun culture is not a bunch of yahoo's screaming because they can't have bazookas.

It seems like the NRA has withdrawn their frontal assault on anti-gunners, but I think they have been making progress on persuading people over in a more mainstream manner by doing what they've always done.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 6:50:48 AM EDT
Hell, if you worry about $30 that much you might want to think about entering this hobby at all. Joining the NRA isn't a life long commitment, doesn't require a permit (yet), and there are no brands or tatoos.

Both my wife and I have been members for 15 years now - just the amount of suffering they cause the anti's is worth the price of admission. The gun insurance is a nice bennie too.

I also belong to the GOA, JPOF, and some others.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 7:08:31 AM EDT
There are some good reasons to join the NRA, such as the firearms insurance.

However, if you're most interested in legislative action, then I don't buy this argument that says, "Well, the NRA compromises and sells us down the river, but at least they are the most powerful group!"

Well, in my town, Democrats far outnumber any other political party. Should I join the democratic party and forgo the Republicans or Libertarians just because the Democrats are more numerous?

I like the GOA because for example, if there is a candidate who is pro-RKBA, regardless of party affiliation, then GOA will endorse that candidate and help him win. From what I understand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the NRA will not endorse pro-RKBA candidates unless they are also Republicans. Also, didn't the NRA author the assault weapon and full-capacity magazine bans?

Here's an article to get you started: http://www.webleyweb.com/tle/le970515-03.html

-Nick Viejo.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 8:40:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 9:18:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By N_Viejo:

From what I understand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the NRA will not endorse pro-RKBA candidates unless they are also Republicans. Also, didn't the NRA author the assault weapon and full-capacity magazine bans?


-Nick Viejo.




You may want to update your understanding.

From US News and World Report:

www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/baroneweb/mb_020809.htm

Rep. John Dingell's victory over fellow Democratic incumbent Lynn Rivers in the Michigan 15th-District primary this past Tuesday by a 59-to-41 percent margin–larger than most observers expected–proves several things:


(3) Gun control is not necessarily a winner, even in a Democratic primary. Dingell has long opposed some forms of gun control, and very effectively too. His amendment helped frustrate gun-control organization efforts after the Columbine massacre, and he used to serve on the board of the National Rifle Association.

The conventional wisdom of the national press–fortified by responses to vaguely worded poll questions on the issue–has been that gun control is a political winner. In some constituencies–Rivers's Ann Arbor–it surely is. But gun control also has its opponents. The NRA sent out mailings urging members to vote for Dingell.





There's also a link to this story on the NRA home page.


Link Posted: 8/14/2002 9:24:39 AM EDT
Go ahead and join the NRA...Thats my vote for what it's worth.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 12:14:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2002 12:20:02 PM EDT by MillerSHO]
Please join the NRA and choose American Rifleman as the mag you choose, its a great mag!

edited to say, In this case, any support is good support.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 12:53:32 PM EDT
If you want to piss off a liberal, wear your NRA hat to some of their functions.

The NRA deserves our support, even they don't 100% of my on the military rifles etc, but they are responsible for the Republican take over in Congress in '94, and of course for Al Gore's narrow loss.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 1:17:54 PM EDT
IMO if you're a responsible gun owner you must at least join the NRA.Its only $35 a year and you get a quality monthly mag and the $1000 gun theft insurance too.Yes they do help write gun law when they can't outright stop it.I guess its better to have the gunowners perspective involved in a compromise then have us totally outta the process.Anyhow,NRA is the largest group and is very powerfull.Kinda the mainstream pro-firearms people(if thats possible).

There are more agressive ,unyeilding groups and you should investigate them if your interested.Another thing you might want to do for your local rights is join a gun club or gun collectors club.These groups are usually at the front of local politics and work with groups like NRA to help us out.Usually even cheaper than NRA membership to join these local groups.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 2:23:11 PM EDT
NRA=No Balls at All
Member for 25 years. No longer.
I presented a simple solution to La Pierre to the whole anti-gun politician situation and he looked at me like I had two heads. Leadership is far more interested in preserving their profitable little sinecures than in the rights of the membership. Save your dues. Buy ammo.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 3:53:21 PM EDT
I have also been a member for around 25 years. If you are one who believes that the NRA has done nothing and doesn't care just listen to Schumer or any other liberal when they bitch about who is standing in there way to get anti gun bills passed. They only mention one name NRA. For several years I had to listen to the hunting crowd talk about how they could not join a radical group like the NRA. This was because all they knew about the NRA was what the media said about the NRA. (they did not like the NRA fighting so hard for AK's and other evil looking guns) I believe the NRA has shifted more towards catering to the hunting crowd but I would have to believe that is the major group (maybe as high as 75 percent) of there membership. One major thing the NRA did for us shooters was defeating the "cop killer bullet law" this is the Teflon bullet bill that was mentioned in an earlier post. The media really pounded the NRA for fighting this law and constantly had anti gun cops on pleading for help in defeating the big bad NRA. What the media never told you was that the bill outlawed any cartridge/bullet combination that when fired from a 14 inch or less barrel would penetrate a vest. Well that pretty much covers all center fire rifle ammo with any type of a jacketed bullet. Including soft points/hollow points/ or the very popular and cheap for plinking purposes FMJ. The NRA did back a bill which became law at this time which banned the Teflon coated bullets. It was there opinion that a bullet ban bill was going to get passed so it would be better to ban just the Teflon bullets as opposed to the majority of all sporting ammo. A bunch of politicians swung there vote to this bill thus defeating the cop killer bullet bill. If you listen to Schumer or my senator Carl Levin talk much at all you will hear them bring this up over and over again how the NRA was the one who got the "sensible legislation" of the cop killer bullet defeated.
No I do not think they are always the greatest but they do at times come through when you need them.
Sorry for the long post,
Tuco
p.s. You know Klinton put a lot of blame on the NRA for the Dem's loosing the house in 94.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 5:02:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By neilfj: (An added benefit is that the mere mention of the NRA scares the hell out of liberals).



Could there be a better reason?
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 5:19:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2002 5:39:04 PM EDT by Adam_White]
Just wanted to add (edit: originally I typed "ass" - sometimes my typos are quite amusing) a few more points, reinforcements:

The NRA has an exemplary record. What too many of us don't realize is they have to be good at the game played in Washington. If they came in with a GOA type attitude they would:

A: Lose membership (numbers talk to politicians)

B: More importantly, lose influence in Congress.

Yes, the NRA did help draft the legislation that eventually replaced the original "cop killer" legislation. This was, as previously mentioned, to insure common rifle ammo would not be outlawed. Stubbornly opposing and not offering an alternative would have led to the banning of much more ammo than most legislators intended.

The NRA was also instrumental in the 1994 Crime Bill "assault rifle" banning. It was the NRA who insisted on a by name list and specific definitions. Had this not been the case, we would all be in the same boat as CA and other states where they have gotten rid of the so called "loopholes" that allow post-ban ARs. It wasn't that the NRA wanted the "assault rifle" ban - it was that they new it would pass and did thier best top minimize it's effect on us gun owners. All GOA could do was scream from the sidelines as a fringe player. Fringe players don't influence such legislation so much. The NRA is the only organization of any real clout in DC that knows and understands guns and gunowners. When organizations like the VPC like to spread stories about guns - politicians know they can go to the NRA to get the other side of the story.

There are very few Feinsteins and Schumers in Congress. Most are middle of the road on the gun issue. NRA cannot afford to alienate them. If your Feinsteins and Schumers have the numbers to push say, "sniper rifle" legislation through sometime in the future, you can bet the NRA will be there to make sure it has minimum impact on most of us, and is EXTREMELY specific about the rifles they intend to ban. This is a pwer they have buy representing themsleves as the honest brokers in the game. A totally hard line stance would only lead to disaster.

Of course, the best defense is a good offense - hence efforts to get anti-gunnners out of office in the first place, in hopes that such legislation never does have the support to go through. As mentioned above - NRA supports Democrats or republicans and judges them all on the matter of firearms legislation only!

Incidentally, it is the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) that does the lobbying. They are only a small part of the NRA, and, if I am not mistaken, was formed pretty recently - maybe early 70s. The other NRA activities - from the magazines to competitions to training are reason enough to join.

Also - you mentioned elections. The NRA probably has some of the more "entertaining" internal disputes and power struggles of any large "special interest" - as you could probably imagine from reading people's opinions on this board alone. Do some searches for names like Neal Knox and you will see what I mean.


Adam
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 6:26:26 PM EDT
My wife and I are working on our life memberships. I paid annually for years, this quarterly payment plan is sweet. When we're done with our dues, we'll buy our kids life memberships(they're 7 & 3, so I need to see how that'll work). The magazines alone are worth the dues price.The "Rifleman" has excellent firearms/handloading articles and "Freedom 1st has excellent political/human interest stories.I wear my hat with pride. There are something like 70,000,000+ gun owners and only a few million NRA members.Can you imagine the lobbying power if all of us joined.They're not perfect, but I don't think we would have survived the Clinton years without them.They walk a fine line, being out in the limelite. They lost alot of points with people with their "jack-booted thugs" comment. That could've been handled better. Some more radical groups would talk like that all the time, and then we'd be screwed for sure.You don't need to fire us up, we're there. We need to convince the fence sitters, and I don't believe that done by yelling at them.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 6:40:05 PM EDT
GreenDragon has a good point about the #'s.

I'm donating $25 a month through the payroll plan and I'm paying off the Extended Life Membership plan, if that tells you how I feel about being a member of the NRA.

POWER is the name of the game, and we'll get more of it with more members.
I hope you decide to join.
Good Luck.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 3:44:54 AM EDT
I don't know of a single organization that is "completly" alligned with any single person's entire agenda,s wether its a religion, or a club, or the NRA.

With that said, NRA has fought hard to keep many aspects of fire arm ownership safe. If it were not for the NRA, there would be quite a bit more legislation, no more gun shows. Many of the antigun leaders across the nation recognise that the NRA is the single largest force to oppose in regards to passing legislation that would basically leave you without ANY fire arms. I can't remember who said it, but one of the California Senators said that if "she could submit a bill that banned all fire arms of any kind that would pass congress, she would do it!" These are the anti-gunners attitudes.

The NRA has a couple of kinds of magazines that you can order with your years membership, I ordered the political mag the first year and was AMAZED at the kind of legislation and underhanded tactics used to put things through the back door in congress on all kinds of bills many which have nothing to do with fire arms, but related to governmental aid!

The NRA also pays for legal fee's of some of its members who get into legal quagmires over gun ownership and rights.

All in all the NRA does many good things, and provide the loudest voice for your fire arms rights. Does it do it perfectly? well, like I said initially, no organization is going to meet every diverse aspect cent for cent on every single issue. The NRA is going the right direction, more so influence than ANY other firearms organization.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 12:31:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:
NRA is the good cop.

GOA is the bad cop.

BOTH work toward the general objective.

Join both.




How exactly is GOA the bad cop, becuase they dont compromise?

I think you have those switched around garandman.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 1:08:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2002 1:10:46 PM EDT by heliflyer]
Heliflyer -- Life Member NRA

If your unhappy with the NRA, get involved in it. Work from within to change the problems as you see them. Sometimes perceptions change with knowledge.

Bill
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 1:16:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2002 1:21:17 PM EDT by heliflyer]

Originally Posted By DFBonnett:
NRA=No Balls at All
Member for 25 years. No longer.
I presented a simple solution to La Pierre to the whole anti-gun politician situation and he looked at me like I had two heads. Leadership is far more interested in preserving their profitable little sinecures than in the rights of the membership. Save your dues. Buy ammo.



The NRA needs the numbers to increase it's impact in congress. By staying out of the NRA you're actually helping the ANTI-GUNNERS. Would you please think about that?

Edited to say: I have plenty of problems with some of the things the NRA has done here, in California. And I have sure let them know about it. From INSIDE the organization. Pay your dues, so that you, and the rest of us, always will have AMMO to buy.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 1:32:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2002 1:32:37 PM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By MisterGreens:

Originally Posted By garandman:
NRA is the good cop.

GOA is the bad cop.

BOTH work toward the general objective.

Join both.




How exactly is GOA the bad cop, becuase they dont compromise?

I think you have those switched around garandman.



You don't watch enuf TV apparently.

Good cop = softer line, not as hard core.

Bad cop = hard line, kick your butt, pull no punches, sticks to their guns.


Link Posted: 8/15/2002 3:07:11 PM EDT
Having spent WAY too much time over at DU pissing them off, I have only one thing to say:

The liberals blame the NRA and the NRA alone for preventing "common-sense gun control legislation." Good enough for me.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 6:09:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2002 6:10:23 PM EDT by MisterGreens]

Originally Posted By garandman:
You don't watch enuf TV apparently.

Good cop = softer line, not as hard core.

Bad cop = hard line, kick your butt, pull no punches, sticks to their guns.




I stand corrected garandman. For some silly reason I was thinking good guy bad guy.
Link Posted: 8/15/2002 6:26:47 PM EDT
I've been a life member of the NRA for many years. My wife also had deceided to become a 5-year member 2 years ago. I've heard all the anti-NRA arguments on this forum for the last 2 years. None make any sense at all. All I've heard is some wimpy "I'm too cheap to join the NRA. What have they done to help us gun-owners? They've given all our rights away" Well what have you done? Can you imagine what kind of political clout we would have if all gun owners joined the NRA instead of wussing out? Cripes, we wouldn't even have to worry about the liberal morons trying to steal our guns if we all had the balls to join the NRA and write letters to our representatives in congress about how we feel. Jeez, get a clue guys, will ya?
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:02:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By N_Viejo:
There are some good reasons to join the NRA, such as the firearms insurance.

However, if you're most interested in legislative action, then I don't buy this argument that says, "Well, the NRA compromises and sells us down the river, but at least they are the most powerful group!"

Well, in my town, Democrats far outnumber any other political party. Should I join the democratic party and forgo the Republicans or Libertarians just because the Democrats are more numerous?



Astute observation


I like the GOA because for example, if there is a candidate who is pro-RKBA, regardless of party affiliation, then GOA will endorse that candidate and help him win. From what I understand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the NRA will not endorse pro-RKBA candidates unless they are also Republicans. Also, didn't the NRA author the assault weapon and full-capacity magazine bans?

Here's an article to get you started: http://www.webleyweb.com/tle/le970515-03.html

-Nick Viejo.



Hey Old Fella (Viejo), the NRA does indorse strong progun politicians, regardless of their party affiliation. Representative Dingell, of Michigan, for one. He is a Democrap (spelling intentional).

Bill
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:09:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By MisterGreens:

Originally Posted By garandman:
NRA is the good cop.

GOA is the bad cop.

BOTH work toward the general objective.

Join both.




How exactly is GOA the bad cop, becuase they dont compromise?

I think you have those switched around garandman.



You don't watch enuf TV apparently.

Good cop = softer line, not as hard core.

Bad cop = hard line, kick your butt, pull no punches, sticks to their guns.




Garandman:
You have a unique, and appropos way of expressing yourself. I like it.

Bill
Link Posted: 8/16/2002 9:15:24 AM EDT


Originally Posted By Fly-n-hitch-hiker:(partial quote)

I've heard all the anti-NRA arguments on this forum for the last 2 years. None make any sense at all. All I've heard is some wimpy "I'm too cheap to join the NRA. What have they done to help us gun-owners? They've given all our rights away" Well what have you done? Can you imagine what kind of political clout we would have if all gun owners joined the NRA instead of wussing out? Cripes, we wouldn't even have to worry about the liberal morons trying to steal our guns if we all had the balls to join the NRA and write letters to our representatives in congress about how we feel. Jeez, get a clue guys, will ya?



Now, why didn't I say that? My hat is off to you Mr. Fly-in-hitch-hiker.

Bill
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