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Live ammo, in tumbler for over 200 hours with microscopic images.**OP UPDATE**fired rounds (Page 3 of 3)
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
Joined:
Jun 2007
Posts:
16927
EE: 100% (1)
WA, USA
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No. It's a toggled thread, (the page icon with a green arrow next to the thread title.) A toggled thread will not go into the archives. Go up to the Gateway thread, it was created so that anyone could "tack" a toggled thread. Read the first post and enjoy.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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I'm not worried about tumbling cartridges loaded with ball powder.
It's extruded powder that worries me. Hogdon labels some powders the same but with an acronym of SC behind the same designation, meaning short cut. More surface area on a set amount of powder can create a faster burn rate and higher pressures. Probably not signicant unless you use max loads. |
Grumpy old fudd that shoots accurately with an AR, M1A, bolt action, single shot, revolver, 1911, or BB gun!
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I think I have mentioned this before but, personally I would have no problems tumbling my reloads. If you think about it for a minute, think of all the factory ammunition that after it is made is tumbled and not to mention all the vibration and movement it gets just from being shipped. Don't forget to add all the movement the powder gets from LEO or our military when they carry it for who knows how long before it is fired. I am going to guess that factory ammunition gets a lot more vibration that most of our reloads and they shoot just fine.
Just my thoughts and logic. |
<font size=2>Anyone can kill a dumb enemy, killing the smart ones requires Artistry!</font id=s2>
My daughter can bumpfire, too. I bet that gives the Liberals a screaming fit.Loki41
My daughter can bumpfire, too. I bet that gives the Liberals a screaming fit.Loki41
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I tumble ALL my reloads & have done so will all the loads over the past decade or so.
NO ISSUES. Commercial reloading companies tumble their own loaded ammo. It is industry practice for non-military ammo. Q.: if it caused pressure problems, do you think ammo companies would still be doing it after all these years? Furthermore, it is beyond doubt that if your goal is remove case lube from finished ammo, a half-hour trip through the tumbler WILL NOT cause any problems (besides possibly clogging JHPs or OTMs with gunk). People posting warnings to the contrary might as well be yelling "the sky is falling!!" or warning of the dangers of bigfoot or UFO abduction. Such people have lost all credibility after so many tests. Aloha |
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Originally Posted By Still_learning:
When you emptied the cases to collect the tumbled powder, was there any loose black material (graphite coating) that came out of the cases? Here are the cases, i just dumped them for you, for the original pictures I just took some powder out and replaced the bullet the put them aside until now. The cases were fired before being used here so they will be a bit black from firing. There is no fine powder that can be seen(some of the spherical rolled into the flakes you will see due to my dumping on the flat sheet). Sorry if the photos are not perfect but I have spent enough time on this. If you don't feel comfortable tumbling live ammo then don't. ETA: if you right click on the pic and view image you can see it full size and zoom. 
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Originally Posted By 52hubcap:
Did you chrono any loads with the new and tumbled powder to compare velocity or pressure? No because that would have required a much larger sample size and much more work. I would have had to do at least 30 of each to get a decent average. I would also have to find a bunch of very very similar brass to rule out those inconsistencies. You have to ask your self what happened to the inside of these solids that didn't happen to the outsides. The sheen, the shape, the sharp corners and edges remained unchanged. If any coating was wore away wouldn't the sheen have changed, wouldn't there be signs of this coating elsewhere? Ask yourself how much damage could a few light granules do to themselves traveling such a small distance inside the case? How much energy are they going to transfer to one another from the flow the vibratory tumbler provides. If you are using a paint shaker to tumble brass then you may have a problem......I have been watching ebay for a used paint shaker for under $50 shipped just for this experiment. |
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Originally Posted By glock23c:
Great info. Tagged for future reference. Please realize the above examples are NOT extruded powders but ball or flake powders. |
Grumpy old fudd that shoots accurately with an AR, M1A, bolt action, single shot, revolver, 1911, or BB gun!
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Originally Posted By TXN_Infidel:
Originally Posted By danc46:
Originally Posted By glock23c:
Great info. Tagged for future reference. Please realize the above examples are NOT extruded powders but ball or flake powders. Are you saying extruded will get damaged? Don't know for sure. I know there are different load datas for versions of regular extruded powder and the SC (short cut) version of the same powder. It stands to reason you have different numbers ends to ignite in the same weights of long extruded powder and the shorter versions. The acceleration rate and corresponding pressures would be different. I'm not sure. And if not sure, don't take the chance when shooting ammo. Just MO. |
Grumpy old fudd that shoots accurately with an AR, M1A, bolt action, single shot, revolver, 1911, or BB gun!
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Originally Posted By nightwolf357: VERY interesting I will say, I always did NOT believe that myth. Given the fact of manufacturing any powder and then transportation of powder, as well as being put into factory ammunition and all the "tumbling" or vibration it would get from transportation, carrying, etc wouldn't have any noticeable effect on powder. Testing EVERY powder of every brand in every tumbler made would cost a substantial amount of money. To do that just to make a few select skeptical people happy is not something I think anyone would really care to do. To the OP all I can say is thank you and WOW!!!!! If tumbling loaded rounds was bad based on the idea the vibration would break down the powder and cause problems then you wouldn't be able to transport ammo on a helicopter for any length of time. |
Luke 22:36
Guns don't kill people. Numerous large gaping holes in vital organs do.
Guns don't kill people. Numerous large gaping holes in vital organs do.
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Originally Posted By ArimoDave:
The only powder that may have had a slight change was the FFFg black. It appears as though the the tumbled grains have sharper and more jagged edges as though there was some breakdown occurring––-probably not enough to make that much difference in burn characteristics, however. Even so, since BP is loaded compressed, the experiment is irrelevant if it was conducted with less than a case full with a bullet compressing the charge. Other than that, a very nine experiment, which certainly seems to put a myth to rest. If anyone has the gumption to do it (I don't) it would be interesting to try some of the old IMR powders. (3031, 4350, 4198, etc., etc.) |
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Photobucket strikes again!
I hope they die a slow, uncertain death in recompense for all the damage they have done. It's as if they lit the fires in the Library at Alexandria all over again. It may be that I have a copy of the original post stored away somewhere as a Word document. |
Live ammo, in tumbler for over 200 hours with microscopic images.**OP UPDATE**fired rounds (Page 3 of 3)
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