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Hypervelocity Rockets ( first static test on page 5 ) (Page 2 of 6)
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Originally Posted By JonathanwFL: If anyone wants to donate an armored vehicle, I’d be happy to shoot it  Originally Posted By JonathanwFL: Originally Posted By walkinginadangerzone: Jonathan, question. Are you going to test the anti armor rocket against an armor target of some kind? If anyone wants to donate an armored vehicle, I’d be happy to shoot it This needs to happen.
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Originally Posted By JonathanwFL: If anyone wants to donate an armored vehicle, I’d be happy to shoot it Originally Posted By JonathanwFL: Originally Posted By walkinginadangerzone: Jonathan, question. Are you going to test the anti armor rocket against an armor target of some kind? If anyone wants to donate an armored vehicle, I’d be happy to shoot it I don't know about donate, but @fadedsun and @m35ben should have an idea of where unrepairable hulks are. But an angled piece of hardened steel would be a lot cheaper. |
Death to quislings.
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Alro Steel has AR500 plate. Not sure the min quantity needed for order. https://www.alro.com/divsteel/metals_gridpt.aspx?gp=0048 |
Here’s a special photo, it was sent by the surviving spouse of one of the lead engineers on the project  Then there are these photos provided by a very kind sub contractor Engineer ( for Sparta Inc i believe )who assisted in this project that answered some very important questions about the rocket. These are the tail section of the rocket and show the split flare design in detail I asked if I could borrow the rocket motor to do Hi-res photos for the book but unfortunately he declined however the photos themselves are worth their weight in gold     
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Most metal supply shops can get you ar500 or similar. My brother used to get hardox (ar450 I believe) from the shop that supplied their gravel pit. But they could special order armox(their name brand armor plate) and ar500 pretty easily. Many gravel processors use hardened steel plates for wear resistance. My other brother (who now runs the plants) takes the used ones to make his own steel targets. |
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Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: Most metal supply shops can get you ar500 or similar. My brother used to get hardox (ar450 I believe) from the shop that supplied their gravel pit. But they could special order armox(their name brand armor plate) and ar500 pretty easily. Many gravel processors use hardened steel plates for wear resistance. My other brother (who now runs the plants) takes the used ones to make his own steel targets. I’m not sure what I’ll do for targets, I need to find a place to shoot these, I’m going to write to White sands missile range, maybe I can rent a part of the range and possibly they may have targets from old tests. I’d have to travel from out of state so I’m not sure if I’d be able to bring such large plates Another concern I have is ATF changing the definition of the rockets to make mine DDs. I need to make sure I’m more protected before i make these so if anyone has ideas on what I can do , I would really appreciate input |
Trying to locate a M47 Dragon bipod to go on the front but in the mean time I picked up one of those Milan ATGM lightweight Tripods and a vintage Camera mount. Just need to print an adapter and tube clamp and I’ll be able to fire it from a sturdy platform      The SPIKE Rocket next to the Recoilless Round I designed so I could actually fire it on my shoulder |
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Originally Posted By Ben: Jon, My ranch is in a bowl surrounded by cliffs and steep hillsides. I've got a 1k yard direct fire range. If you don't find somewhere better, would be happy to setup targets for you. I have two cousins (brother and sister) who just inherited about 20k+ acres in North Central Texas. I know that the brother would love to have you play in his yard, as long as I can watch and drool. |
-Wake me up when the lamp post decorating starts!
-In America, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty — unless you are a Trump supporter.
-The older I get, the shorter a life sentence is.
-In America, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty — unless you are a Trump supporter.
-The older I get, the shorter a life sentence is.
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Originally Posted By Ringsting: I have two cousins (brother and sister) who just inherited about 20k+ acres in North Central Texas. I know that the brother would love to have you play in his yard, as long as I can watch and drool.  The slightly bigger Version of the SPIKE has a range of 16 KM (close to 10 miles in freedom units) so mine will likely have a max range of 6-7 miles so Any shooting location would need a considerable buffer to ensure the safety of surrounding areas and people as rockets can erratically fly in failed launches |
This video has some suggestions about a safe place to test from... I'm On A Boat Navy Edition |
Death to quislings.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: This video has some suggestions about a safe place to test from...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf7AkSdJcD4I have access to a boat and could possibly make a remote floating test platform but the issue is nothing to really shoot at and not much ability to record data at sea Also not sure what’s the legality of taking an NFA item out In international waters |
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The only downside I can think is hypersonic rockets launching near the shooter wouldn’t be a good thing. If Carl G’s induce barotrauma to the launcher, these have to be worse. Need a way to measure the overpressure near the launcher to make sure it’s safe. |
Preferred Pronoun: Space Lord Mutherfucker
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Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: The only downside o can think is hypersonic rockets launching near the shooter wouldn’t be a good thing. If Carl G’s induce barotrauma to the launcher, these have to be worse. Need a way to measure the overpressure near the launcher to make sure it’s safe. These rockets have a much a lower burn rate compared to explosive propellant, over pressure is less of a concern but Given how dangerous rocket exhaust plume is , and how dangerous a failed erratic rocket can be (My buddy took one the M202 Flash rocket to the butt, thankfully survived to tell the tail). All my rockets tests will be conducted remotely with everyone extremely far away . I use black powder boost charge for on the shoulder tests given it’s a safer option for that kind of thing |
 ALL Carbon Fiber: My Fastest, Highest, Craziest Rocket YET! You can test rockets firing straight up. Pretty easy to float a raft in the Caribbean if you need a target. |
Death to quislings.
   I found an interesting patent for a hypervelocity rocket that uses standard smokeless powder grains as rocket fuel with a reentry nozzle that prevents the grains from blowing out. The trade off of simple propellant is extremely high pressure. The patent claims to have tested the concept several times and functions although, due to the heavy weight , it may underperformed. However the combination of titanium and composite materials may make the concept feasible. The company Sparta Inc, worked on this as well as the “SPIKE” so they have a good track record I’m going to see if there are equivalent powders available on the market to possibly replicate this concept  Patent link I made a 3d model to show it better    |
   Firing My Panzerfaust at the Gun Range | Slow Motion The launcher held up to some practice black powder rounds, I don’t see why it couldnt handle a rocket, maybe sand bag the legs to be sure but yeah still working on this project. The main issues are finding a place to fire the rockets and saving up for a carbon fiber filament winder which is very expensive but still researching every week for more data , photos, etc . I think I’ll probably try visit the base redstone arsenal one of these days if I can get proper access to their facility and possible interviews with folks who worked on the project |
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OP, perhaps you could pursue a separate but parallel track of development with rocket motors, launching vertically with local amateur rocketry clubs or from boats offshore - you're in Florida, there's a whole lot of offshore out there. Remarkable progress. |
Death to quislings.
Nazi AA liquid fueled rocket: Taifun Surface-to-Air Rocket: Germany's WWII Supersonic Answer to Bomber Threats |
Death to quislings.
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Good news : I found the formula for the rocket propellant for the Hypervelocity rocket Bad news : I am unable to legally make the propellant as the ATF claims under 15 Micron of ammonium perchlorate is explosive material. Maybe if it’s made and turned into APCP the same day (exempt from explosive regulation) then is all above board for the ATF   Do you have thoughts @ben |
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Originally Posted By JonathanwFL: Good news : I found the formula for the rocket propellant for the Hypervelocity rocket Bad news : I am unable to legally make the propellant as the ATF claims under 15 Micron of ammonium perchlorate is explosive material. Maybe if it’s made and turned into APCP the same day (exempt from explosive regulation) then is all above board for the ATF https://i.imgur.com/jVZavj2.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/bNp72Uu.jpeg Do you have thoughts @ben As long as you have a magazine to store it in, and don't transport it on a public road, it is perfectly legal to make your own explosives and store them. The whole "you can make explosives but not store them" is a common myth that is incorrect. You can store them, if you have a magazine that meets the requirements. The problem is simply that most people without an FEL obviously don't have a magazine. Alternatively, a federal explosives license is like $75 for three years. You don't need your own magazine if you have a license, as long as someone else agrees in writing to let you store stuff in theirs. |
Lightning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea!
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed
https://americanpioneercorps.org
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed
https://americanpioneercorps.org
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Originally Posted By Ben: The whole "you can make explosives but not store them" is a common myth that is incorrect. You can store them, if you have a magazine that meets the requirements. The problem is simply that most people without an FEL obviously don't have a magazine. Slightly off topic, but to clarify...in theory...an individual without an FEL could legally store live M781 with launch blank installed, if they own a magazine (assuming all requirements in the orange book are met)? I'm assuming transporting in an approved day box (without FEL) is a no-go? |
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Originally Posted By NAM: Slightly off topic, but to clarify...in theory...an individual without an FEL could legally store live M781 with launch blank installed, if they own a magazine (assuming all requirements in the orange book are met)? I'm assuming transporting in an approved day box (without FEL) is a no-go? As far as the magazine goes, yes. If the magazine meets the specifications required, you're good. Careful mixing the orange book into this, because it is meant for licensees and a lot of it doesn't apply. For example, you aren't required to do weekly inspections of the magazine or keep a log book if you aren't a licensee. I'd have to double check on the transport, but I think technically you would be fine if you had an approved day box. |
Lightning from the Sky, Thunder from the Sea!
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed
https://americanpioneercorps.org
Twitter/Instagram: benunsuppressed
https://americanpioneercorps.org
 Building A Hypervelocity Rocket - Project Announcement |
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Originally Posted By mattnh: What makes the petals extend? Rotation? Exhaust gases expansion? Both? Do they lock out once extended? They open from the rotation caused my the torque vanes and the lock in place using spring steel tab and a connecting bracket. I just haven’t CAD it up yet 
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I spoke to the ATF about the legality of traveling into Federal waters with NFAs to conduct remote testing Incase I can’t find any places on the east coast to safely test . Here’s their response, basically no form 20 needed so long as I return to the port I came from without stopping in another state or country 
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Outstanding. Have you contacted any amateur rocket societies about vertical launch opportunities? You'd need to design a recoverable payload, they don't care for lawn darts. I’d have to do a bunch of certification flights that would take up too much money and time to get to the ability to test the full size rocket unfortunately |
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Originally Posted By JonathanwFL: I’d have to do a bunch of certification flights that would take up too much money and time to get to the ability to test the full size rocket unfortunately Originally Posted By JonathanwFL: Originally Posted By backbencher: Outstanding. Have you contacted any amateur rocket societies about vertical launch opportunities? You'd need to design a recoverable payload, they don't care for lawn darts. I’d have to do a bunch of certification flights that would take up too much money and time to get to the ability to test the full size rocket unfortunately Possibly. You could also 3-D print smaller models of your final product scaled for the certification level? |
Death to quislings.
Been hit with a bunch of medical bills (twins on the way) and still paying off the Oregon—> Florida move so it’s been tough to start the propellant testing with custom made motor cases however I have the second edition of the panzerfaust book coming out end of this week so that should help a little.  In the meantime, I am quoting having some of those Smokeless powder rocket motor printed in steel and/or inconel , Titanium to test the concept as a viable alternative to a composite hypervelocity rocket. This type of rocket is a perfect candidate for printing in one single piece which simplifies manufacturing and actually cheaper than a custom made carbon fiber motor. The propellant is a commercially available smokeless powder so propellant manufacturing is greatly simplified and process times of several days per batch is cut to zero. These also have a drastically shorter burn time so in theory , it is a lot safer to test. The downside is, they are much higher pressure motor increasing the risk of CATO and it’s a proven but little known motor so a lot of unknown variables. I’m going to start with small scale rockets , first a non NFA version in .49” Cal and then one for my fliegerfaust in 20mm since I already have stamps for that caliber . If I have successfull results I can also test in my 2” launcher and My 66mm launcher without the need for new tax stamps. I’ll probably test in spare barrels to ensure it’s safe before risking damaging the original barrels      |
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Originally Posted By walkinginadangerzone: Is the new propellant supposed to burn up completely inside the barrel thus eliminating the hot exhaust gases to the shooter from your previous rocket motors? It’ll likely still burn while in flight but much faster then composite propellant Originally Posted By MHIDPA: Please update when the book is out so I can buy one. Will do ! I appreciate the support, really happy with how it came out |
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Originally Posted By JonathanwFL: It’ll likely still burn while in flight but much faster then composite propellant Originally Posted By JonathanwFL: Originally Posted By walkinginadangerzone: Is the new propellant supposed to burn up completely inside the barrel thus eliminating the hot exhaust gases to the shooter from your previous rocket motors? It’ll likely still burn while in flight but much faster then composite propellant Ah, looking forward to the testing. |
After speaking with a friend in the printing industry, realized I had to adjust the design to avoid any internal supports that could not removed. Here’s the revised design. I’m going to start with some very slow propellant like IMR 8133 and work my way up to good ballistic performance. The blue section is my capacity limit so I will need to calculate how much propellant can potentially fill that space    
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Originally Posted By backbencher: How are you going to get the powder in there? That's going to be quite the bomb. And the higher pressure goes, the faster even slow powders burn, IIRC. I wonder if you could spin it quickly at a 45* downward angle and trickle it in, allowing centrifugal force to move it back from the neck. |
Hypervelocity Rockets ( first static test on page 5 ) (Page 2 of 6)
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