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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/5/2010 12:20:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 12:24:22 PM EDT by aippi]
I am convinced these are out there and are being sold on Internet sites and at gun shows and such. I have only been able to speak to a few guys who have knowledge of this. These dealers share my conviction that some of the most popular light are being bootlegged. It is not a topic to bring up with the manufacturers of the lights that are being copied. I tired and got the company line on the topic. If these lights are out there as I believe they are then these companies have to know. Some guy buys a bootleg one, something goes wrong with it and he sends it in for warranty work. They have to know it is not theirs. They know the warranty registration number is fake. Would they repair these to keep the people from knowing this about their product being bootlegged?

I am trying to find out as much as I can about this. A quick review of some leading auction sites shows several brands of weapons light being sold far below dealer cost. I am talking about the lowest cost any dealer can buy this product. So, the same product being sold consistently by the same guy at a price far below what he can buy it for is suspicious for sure. These products are ripe for this due to the cost, how small they are so that many can be shipped in to the country and the fact they are selling so well. I would even think that some high end optics could be involved.

Any first hand experience would be helpful. I would prefer no name brands are mentioned as this could be unfair to that Manufacturer unless you have in your possession bootlegged product and can prove it is not original. Of course this is just my preference on the topic and guys will post what they choose to. I just believe that facts should be posted if a brand name is mentioned.

Ideas from guys on how to avoid this such as buying from reputable dealers, known suppliers and from the Companies web site and other ideas would be welcomed also. I will take the best advice and offer it on my web site.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 12:50:55 PM EDT
There will always be Chinese made copies of anything worthwhile. Easiest way to guarantee getting real products is to familiarize your self with an item you are looking to purchase, recognize the packaging and how it is factory sealed. Look at the display moderls and familiarize yourself with the serial number marking, as well as the product marking itself. Look at the laser etching, the color of the etching, sequence of model number as well as letters associated with that number. Basically educate yourself, and be wary. Some of the Leupold knock off scopes I have seen are so good that the only way a local Leupold dealer could identify the fake was the fact that it was built with metric screw on the knobs. That and the fact that 2 of them had the same serial number on them.(and it was a real Leupold serial number from an actual scope)

This is what I have been taught, and what I try to practice....

Just my 2 cents
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 12:57:55 PM EDT
It is my understanding that attempting to sue China for copyright and trademark infringement is as easy as invading them over land. The government there doesn't give a fuck what they do as long as the bottom line is good.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 2:06:45 PM EDT
good stuff Buckwild. Nothing less then what I would expect from a brother Jarhead. I have copied those "things to look for" that you posted.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:36:23 PM EDT
That's one reason why I take my time shopping with a skeptical eye and avoid a price that is too good to be true. It's very important to use this advice in the weapons/accessories market since that item may save your butt one day; I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the, "real deal", not the knockoff counterfeit item.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 8:14:54 PM EDT
With you on that Gravity - I don't skimp on my weapons nor what goes on them or in them. I don't skimp on the brakes or tires on my vehicles. I don't skimp on my Bourbon, wait, Bourbon won't save my life, but it does makes it more bearable.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:48:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By aippi:
I would even think that some high end optics could be involved.


They sure are.

And a certain manufacturer of mounts made in the dead center of Texas has been struggling with knock-offs too.

Team members can access a thread in the Team forum about spotting fugazis.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 5:48:05 PM EDT
Strat - I don't use optics like that so would never have seen a thread like that so thanks for the link 'cause it is dead on about what is happening with weapons lights also. As a dealer I won't go into any brands as the manufactures are in some form of denial when asked and I don't want to jeapordize anything with my business. From your post I can see I need to buy one of those fake ass lights and do what the guy did on that thread about the optic. Break it down and show the shoddy way those things are most likely built.

I learned years ago "Buy cheap and you buy often". I learned the hard way with tools and soon found out it applies to most any thing. Paying more does not mean better but buying quality from a manufacturer that stands behind their product is the key. Again - thanks for that link.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:30:26 PM EDT
I do not know anything about the flash lights but came upon a dealer selling fake Aimpoint Magnifiers about 3 years ago. The item even came in what looked to be an Aimpoint box with Aimpoint instructions. I called and reported it to Aimpoint company which has a local office here. There response was they are aware they are being copied, claimed legal stuff was in the works, and have a nice day. They did not even want the dealers info. And no....most companies will not fix or even touch a fake or counterfiet item. Some will not even return it to you if its a counterfiet item.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 3:11:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 3:12:52 AM EDT by GunCat]
More related info from another thread


Originally Posted By Beavis556:
Originally Posted By GunCat:
on a related note:

Did anyone else notice the ever increasing presence of “imported” optics (and many other items) at this year's SHOT Show. Seems like every row had a booth.


I saw two seperate china men taking up close detailed pics of battle sights and other stuff. We promptly informed the reps at the company and they ran them out pretty quickly. Also heard a story of a guy pulling out some dudes film. He was using film hoping that if he got caught, people would let him slide because they felt bad about ruining his film. Heck no, they ripped that crap out.


Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:23:51 AM EDT
Any tips on spotting a fake Surefire products?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:05:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By aippi:
-snip- Again - thanks for that link.


You're welcome.

The problem is also getting worse as the fakes are looking closer and closer to the original. That makes buying the product at a gunshow, for example, very risky. Unless you have the genuine article available to do a side-by-side comparison, you might not know you have a fake.

For something like a flashlight, battery life, bulb life, light color, and beam diffusion might provide clues to a fugazi.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:39:31 AM EDT
I've statrted going back to nothing is free in life. If you are paying $100 for a $200 item then there is something wrong. No dealer will sell anything below what they pay for it. Dealers would loose too much money if they did this.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 8:44:15 AM EDT
I guess I have been focused on one weapon and stuck in my shop here in the woods in Michigan for to long. I had no idea this was this large an issue covering so many things. I was not even aware of the weapons light issue till a client pulled the addition of a light from his weapon for one he bought on line for far less then the dealer cost. Has anything else important happend in past five years that I missed other then an idiot being elected President?

Thanks for all the links. I now have information to give to clients. Anyone who knows me or has done business with me knows I don't pressure sell and spend more time trying to talk guys into keeping stuff off the weapon as I preach keep it basic. I can share the knowledge but they will do as they will. If I warn them about this mess and they get burnt, it is on them for not getting the real thing.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:27:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By aippi:
I guess I have been focused on one weapon and stuck in my shop here in the woods in Michigan for to long. I had no idea this was this large an issue covering so many things. I was not even aware of the weapons light issue till a client pulled the addition of a light from his weapon for one he bought on line for far less then the dealer cost. Has anything else important happend in past five years that I missed other then an idiot being elected President?

Thanks for all the links. I now have information to give to clients. Anyone who knows me or has done business with me knows I don't pressure sell and spend more time trying to talk guys into keeping stuff off the weapon as I preach keep it basic. I can share the knowledge but they will do as they will. If I warn them about this mess and they get burnt, it is on them for not getting the real thing.


They found that VA Diner Ham Biscuits actually lower cholesteral.... Gilligan got off the island.....LOL
JD Thanks for all you do for this forum and the laughs once in a while
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 1:21:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bmyk:
Any tips on spotting a fake Surefire products?

I've seen a few fakes at gun shows. They look very much like the real deal. Most of them will be sold as "used" since they want to keep them cheap by not counterfeiting the Surefire packaging.

On the aluminum versions the white lettering on a real Surefire will a subdued white. The LED versions have beams that are not completely white. There are numerous other things that are off; although, the only real way to tell is to compare a real against the fake.

If you buy a weapon light it will come in a red Surefire box and inside there will be an inspection number and date that is handwritten on a small strip of metal placed somewhere in the box. By the way Surefire does not put serial numbers on any of their lights. The serial number will be on a slip of paper that comes with the light when you buy it new.

Your biggest indicator is probably going to be price. Surefire as always is and will most likely forever be a high priced item. If it's sold as new, a super low price is probably a fake. Surefire has a strict MAP(Manufacturer's advertised price) system with it's dealers; you will typically not see much price deviation from the list price on the Surefire website.

The most safest way to go is to buy new from a reputable dealer. I've bought six Surefire over the years for a grand total of about $1k. Buy smart and don't skimp on cost.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=150968 Here's a compare and contrast on a real and fake U2 ultra.

http://www.modernrifle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=23287&start=0 Some companies are even making replicas of Surefire.


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