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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/4/2005 2:07:43 PM EDT


could someone direct me to any threads on " bushmaster did / did not build M4's for

uncle sam back during the GW1 era." thanks !!!!
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:13:46 PM EDT
Can't help with threads on the subject. I did find this statement on a website,

"With a large demand for M16A2s and M4s both from the US forces and allied forces, the Dept. of Defence approved a contract to buy M4 carbines from Bushmaster Firearms of Maine. Bushmaster supplied 4,000 M4 carbines to the US Army, these were deployed by the 82nd Airborne Division during Desert Shield and Desert Storm, reportedly being used by Gen. Schwarzkopf's bodyguards at one point."

This was from http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/bushmaster_m4.htm
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:51:00 PM EDT

this one has been tough to completely document , although s.o.f.'s " fighting firearms" did a

bushie review back in the fall of '91, and it featured a quick look at a "maine M4". too bad

the one broadside photo of the weapon showed the right side, where no markings were visible.

it's my understanding that the prototype for the M4, regardless of who made it, was the colt

model 727.....as featured in the closing pages of TBR vol. 1. i can remember ordering

stripped lowers from bushmaster in the late '88 / early '89 time frame and getting some

really rough E.A. castings; their A2 lower forging was apparently not up yet. interesting

as the M4 review in the article showed a weapon with an A1 lower with the FCG markings

applied to the right side. again if my memory serves me right, the first stripped A2 lowers

i got from windham were late spring- early summer of '90. there's always been a

question in the back of my mind....if perhaps the lowers for the M4 order may have been

supplied to BFI by uncle sammy, and they recycled them to produce their 1989 M4 run.

not likely perhaps, but was it even possible ???? one thing is for sure, it was right after this

time that bushie took off like a rocket , and has hardly slowed down since...and rightly so !!!
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:09:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 5:14:43 PM EDT by _DR]
Never seen any gov't procurement documentation for anything but small parts from Bushmaster, and I did search Gov't procurement records going back 25 years.

I'll believe Bushmaster provided rifles for the military when I see the procurement documents, not before. There are just entirely too many falsehoods circulating about firearms manufacturers in general to take anecdotal information like this very seriously.

If we are not careful next we'll be believing that an AK47 chambered in 7.62x39mm can in fact fire 7.62x51mm cartridges, like those the gun shop counter warriors would have us believe.

And BTW SOF is hardly a credible source on what equipment Uncle Sugar is using.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:12:44 PM EDT
I've seen a Bushmaster M16. We have quite a few of them up at the Armory.... They are part of the EST 2000 small arms simulator They are hooked up to air to make them cycle and simulate recoil. Thats the only time I've seen a USGI bushmaster M16.

Steve
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:23:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 5:34:13 PM EDT by Variablebinary]
General Curtis Lemay ordered 20,000 M16/AR15 rifles outside the DOD's purchasing and procurement rules so clearly not every weapon on the battlefield is the result of a contract.

Likewise, from time to time our goverment will buy products outside of conventiional purchasing channels (over the counter) from the likes of LMT, Bushmaster...etc etc. This is one of the reasons there will always be sporadic reports of unofficial weapons floating around in theater, but with no paper trail
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:52:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 6:55:09 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
General Curtis Lemay ordered 20,000 M16/AR15 rifles outside the DOD's purchasing and procurement rules so clearly not every weapon on the battlefield is the result of a contract.



These were still documented, nevertheless.

Bushmasters going to war are not.

Without the hard evidence, the information is about as good as the National Enquirer.
Although I think there is some truth to that story about the Alligator Boy.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:58:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
General Curtis Lemay ordered 20,000 M16/AR15 rifles outside the DOD's purchasing and procurement rules so clearly not every weapon on the battlefield is the result of a contract.



These were still documented, nevertheless.

Bushmasters going to war are not.

Without the hard evidence, the information is about as good as the National Enquirer.
Although I think there is some truth to that story about the Alligator Boy.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/darowden/BM_BS2.jpg

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:03:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:12:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 7:35:31 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Troy:
It's not like anyone is suggesting that BM ever had a "traditional" contract to supply rifles on a regular basis.




Well seems like CrufflerJohn might have been suggesting exactly that by posting this:


Originally Posted By CrufflerJohn:
Can't help with threads on the subject. I did find this statement on a website,

"With a large demand for M16A2s and M4s both from the US forces and allied forces, the Dept. of Defence approved a contract to buy M4 carbines from Bushmaster Firearms of Maine. Bushmaster supplied 4,000 M4 carbines to the US Army, these were deployed by the 82nd Airborne Division during Desert Shield and Desert Storm, reportedly being used by Gen. Schwarzkopf's bodyguards at one point."

This was from http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/bushmaster_m4.htm




Not arguing that they have not made it over there in some roundabout way, not saying they were bad rifles, or that Private contractors don't use them.

Just saying have never seen any evidence of contract procurement by the U.S. gov't as some seem to imply is the case.

Be happy to look at anything anyone has to offer along these lines. I really did look hard. Found Contracts for GM, Balimoy, Colt, FN and others to make M16/M4s over the years.
Found nothing for Bushmaster.

Worthy of note is the claim on Bushmasters website that they sell "products" to the US Military. This is consistent with the contracts for small parts I found from wading though gov't procurement and contract listings. At no time does Bushmaster claim to sell or have sold Firearms to the US Military.


Agreed, no big deal. I'm just saying I have seen no evidence BM never got a contract to provide rifles, and more importantly that they were never privy to the TDP.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:40:16 PM EDT
if your in the military and use the FATS SYSTEM also known as the ISMT ,ya might have shot a bushmaster, ok compressed air, some of the lowers for the m16a2s are bushmaster, so bushmaster supplys lowers for giant nintendo games we have some in our ISMT at MCT west
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:42:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 7:45:23 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By schmud0811:
if your in the military and use the FATS SYSTEM also known as the ISMT ,ya might have shot a bushmaster, ok compressed air, some of the lowers for the m16a2s are bushmaster, so bushmaster supplys lowers for giant nintendo games we have some in our ISMT at MCT west



These are modified lowers, IIRC, cannot be made to function as an actual firearm.
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