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Posted: 2/3/2007 7:32:33 PM EDT
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hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and to AR-15 in general. I bought a used colt hbar competition match (used) and went to the range the other day. It was spot on at 25 yards, but I was lucky to get 10 out of 20 rounds in a 10" circle at 100yards with iron sights. More than likely its me, not the rifle. Any tips or books on marksmanship would be appreciated. I'm a novice with a rifle, but I've been shooting a .45 for a year and I'm getting decen at it. |
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Thanks for the basics. I'm having trouble finding ammo at a decent price. Walmart has a space for remington at 6$ for 20 rounds but its always empty. They have plenty of the 20$ a box varmint rounds and at my gun store they had black hills for 39$ for forty, but I don't think I'm a good enough shot to be wasting quality boattail ammo like that. |
| The UMC from walmart isnt bad, nor were the 40rnd Winchester "Valu-Pak"s they used to carry. Your best bet for inexpensive ammo is probably going to be milsurp or remanufactured. I shoot a lot of Georgia Arms ammo myself, IIRC its going for about $105/500 now. It used to be $85/500. |
The cheapest I see on GA's site is $235/1000. HSM has their Range .223 for like $198/1000 right now.  HuntingShack's Range Ammo HSM's retail ammo page |
I beleive Georgia Arms 55gr is now $120/500 |
I bought an M261. It's a military conversion kit that lets you shoot .22 rimfire through an AR. It's very good for training and basic rifle marksmanship. I got mine in the Equipment Exchange here on AR15.com.  I have the Army manual FM 3-22.9, "Rifle Marksmanship". It's a great read, even if not everything is applicable to the civilian shooter. www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/index.html Start with chapter 4, then go back and read it all. |
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I am new to the AR 15 as well. I have a collapsable stock on the RRA Entry Tactical and can achieve the nose to the charging handle thing, but on my fixed stock varmit, it would be a heck of a stretch. Is this just for shooting iron sights? I am used to setting the eye relief so I don't have to stretch my neck to get to the scope. This aids in fast aquisition and shooting comfort. I am also very accurate with this set up on all my rifles. The thing that I really like about bringing the rifle closer with the shorter stock, is that the weight is closer to my body and this makes it seem less heavy. This is a great topic to learn how the rifle should actually sit during aiming. I went to that "Freds" link and couldn't find the info. This is the reason I come here! |
Military shooters are trained always to shoot with their noses to the charging handle. It is very easy for me becasue I am 6'3'' with unusually long arms. However, some do not like this. It's a different shooting posture, I think because of the inline barrel and stock. I am used to it, and it's difficult for me to shoot shorter stocked guns. Just today I was thinking about what I could do to make my AK stock 4 or 5 inches longer.  ETA: 
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That link to the military field manual was ver helpful. The "nose to the charging handle" method seems to be just for consistency. It is something that I will try, but doubt that I will use it on my varmiter. I don't usually crunch down on the stock that much, but I am always looking to improve. Thanks guys. 
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1) If you are 'spot on' at 25yds, you will be a bit off at 100.... The weapon is 'zeroed' for 300m when zeroed on a 35yd target (applies to A2 iron sights). 2) Shoot WOLF until you can shoot 4" groups at 100 yds - quantity of rounds down-range beats quality of ammo for practice... 3) Shoot nose-to-charging-handle, with your sling wrapped tight around your non-firing upper-arm. Do not line up directly behind your rifle, but rather hold it across (or in front of, for prone) your body at whatever angle is most comfortable for you while maintaining nose-to-CH... In my case this means that my rifle crosses in front of my chest and forms a 45 degree angle with my body, and my non-firing side is exposed downrange. While shooting in the prone, DO NOT MOVE YOUR FEET OR ELBOWS ONCE IN POSITION. Position yourself with your firing-side leg cocked upward to hold your chest off the ground. Use the magwell as a grip, and a have your sling wrapped tight around your non-firing upper-arm. That's my take - of course an AR-15 was my first rifle, and between personal use and the Army I've come to prefer it over other designs by far... In my present assignment, I've served as marksmanship instructor/range armorer, and the stuff above DOES WORK - there are a few folks who went from no-go to qualified based on the above tips... |
That reminds me of natural point of aim. It's covered in Part Five in this series. rwva.blogspot.com/2005/02/rifleman-series-part-four-firing-shot.html It's written by the aforementioned Fred. I'd start at Part Four, as the first three parts are political rambling and .308 ballistic masturbation. |
Couldn't have said it any better myself. And get confortable with the gun and have fun. It will come. Remember to keep that nose on the charging handle. |
Choate or someone like that had a longer one...I forget who it was |
I can say i did learn the basics in the Corps but i learned alot more on my own AR. |
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I have always mounted my rifle at a 45 degree angle to my chest. This allows me to lift the rifle and mount it to my shoulder and lift the rifle to my cheek, without changing the position of my head, just turning head head to rest on the stock. This is greatly different than actually reaching forward to the charging handle. I cannot reach my charging handle on my predator pursuit rifle without really reaching uncomfortably and I am 6'2" and have a good reach. The scope is mounted pretty far forward as well and it would have to be much farther forward to allow for eye relief with any Hunting type scope. It can only go about 3/8" farther forward with this mount. I am going to practice the nose to handle hold for my iron sighted Entry tactical. Shooting with someone who is used to these rifles would be a good idea. |
| I don't care if you think it's asinine, The best place to learn Basic rifle marksmanship is the Marine Corps, secondly the army, a legitimate answer for his question of where to learn the basics. PLUS,,, I was saying it to him somewhat as a joke, so keep your inflammatory comments on your side of the fence bud. |
Try UltraMax 55Gr. It sells in 150 round boxes for $19.99 to $29.00 at Dicks Sporting goods. It is all brass, Remington/Winchester/MIL reloads. Shoots great! Nice brass to reload if you are in to it. Lovely stuff. |
Negative. Getting in with a good group of Highpower Rifle Masters and High Masters will build up your skills to a point that the average jarhead cannot match with what he learned at MCRD. To the O/P, if you want to really get good at the basics of marksmanship, follow my advice. Find a club that does monthly HP matches. You do not need all the stuff that serious competitors have. Show up with a rifle, sling, ammo, and a heavy leather glove for your off hand. We'll take care of the rest. Last year I took a forum member here who wanted to become a better shooter and spent a whole morning with him. He could barely hold 6 MOA from prone at 200 yards with a bone-stock A2 and XM193. By the time we were done, he was hammering the 10 ring (2 MOA) with boring regularity. |
Is this stuff any good? Is this the re manufactured stuff in the red/white/blue boxes? I'm always skeptical of re manufactured rounds after reading about horror stories. -Mike |
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