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Posted: 12/18/2003 1:01:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 1:17:26 PM EDT by dugedug]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 3:08:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 3:37:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy:
[url]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20428[/url]

"No, sir, I didn't like it." - Mr. Horse


-Troy
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IMHO-The magonel looks to be the WORST designed BUIS I have ever seen for various reasons[puke]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 3:58:30 PM EDT
I can't imagine anyone making a sight aperture so large that you have to push it foward to get it to work with the front sight, crazy.
Move the iron foolward when not using an optic and back or remove if you do use an optic? HUH?
Bad shootin, Jack
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 5:15:11 PM EDT
Most cheap looking sight.  Look even worst than the $19 flip-up rear sight made for Airsoft BB guns.  
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 5:21:51 PM EDT
I think there must be a mis print, MONGREL?
Jack
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 5:33:59 PM EDT
[img]http://www.dpmsinc.com/products/RS-MGK_web.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.danetre-vikings.org.uk/Images/Snaps/catapult.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:15:29 PM EDT
[ROFL2]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:22:21 PM EDT
IBC, Clean out your IM Box.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:31:59 PM EDT
done
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 10:11:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 10:11:49 AM EDT by Garryowen]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 11:08:55 AM EDT
OK then, what makes it good?

Please, help us unwashed couch commandos.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 11:43:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 11:53:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 11:55:19 AM EDT by Lumpy196]
I base my opinions on previous experience with a company and its products.  That combined with the fact that the design features of that particular sight dont impress me.

Im not making any money off any of this, so its an [b]opinion only[/b] and worth exactly what it cost.  If it offends, ignore it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 12:16:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 3rdtk:
I can't imagine anyone making a sight aperture so large that you have to push it foward to get it to work with the front sight, crazy.
Move the iron foolward when not using an optic and back or remove if you do use an optic? HUH?
Bad shootin, Jack
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What have you designed?
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 12:32:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 12:39:10 PM EDT by Duffy]
No matter what we endorse or bash, folks are going to vote with their wallets. One can hardly go wrong with an ARMS, LMT, KAC, GG&G sight.  As another member said re: POF handguards, you don't have to eat the entire egg to know it's rotten.  These DPMS sights certainly look the part. If your only requirement is for the sight to go up and down on command, then any Airsoft or Chicom piece of crap will do that without much problem.

If one of the personalities of 3rdtk is Mr. Swan of ARMS, then I'd say he has designed quite a few things [;)]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 12:42:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 12:45:22 PM EDT by SinistralRifleman]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 12:56:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 1:04:47 PM EDT by Duffy]
Without saying it's a piece of engineering marvel or otherwise since I've never seen nor handled one, I can only draw from my network design experiences, a good design always takes into account and addresses all relevent issues.  A well rounded design is but a good compromise, it does everything well enough.  IMHO if it does one thing exceptionally well but fails on other aspects, then it needs help.
If it locks up tight, then it's addressed one of the parameters.  From what I can see, the ergonomics of it can use improvement.  If it takes up more room on the receiver than KAC and ARMS, there's yet another one.

If car makers in the US start putting the ignition key hole on the left side of the steering column, I'd say that's a poor design because it failed to accomodate ergonomics., it matters not that mechanically it works equally well that way.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 1:15:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Duffy:
No matter what we endorse or bash, folks are going to vote with their wallets. One can hardly go wrong with an ARMS, LMT, KAC, GG&G sight.  
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One can hardly go wrong by purchasing a corvette, or an sl600...  besides maybe the fact that they spent way more money than necessary because some jackass insisted that more expensive is better.

As another member said re: POF handguards, you don't have to eat the entire egg to know it's rotten.
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The new POF handguard has solved all previous problems, and what's more, it retails at $229.


These DPMS sights certainly look the part.
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Just because you look like an idiot, doesn’t mean you are.


If one of the personalities of 3rdtk is Mr. Swan of ARMS, then I'd say he has designed quite a few things [;)]
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If DICK is indeed “one of the personalities” of 3rdtk, he is a coward if he will not back up with his name the products of which he should be so proud.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 1:23:05 PM EDT
What's with the importance of 3rdtk's identity?  In the end, it hardly matters who he is, I'm glad he's here speaking his mind, like coldblue (Lt. Col. Lutz) of KAC they both possess a great deal of knowledge, and of course opinions.

Don't be so sure I'm not an idiot [:d]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 4:47:20 PM EDT
It's amazing to watch the ignorance of someone like GARRY about an item like the aperture in the #40, etc. ("looses zero when you flip the the peep") derr, they use the same aperture in the #40 as is used in the M16A2, and it's compensated for the 1/4 rotation on the 10x36 thread by the aperatures being off set to compensate, std. USMC issue aperature.  Garry mr. expert, go tell that and your other BS to them. LOL The only crease is from the labotomy.
                                          Thanks for the compliments, but it looks like someone is jealous of Mr. Swans design abilities.
Good shootin, Jack
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:28:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 5:29:10 PM EDT by KevinB]
While I have not used the mangonelin the field I got to take a look at one.

I already have a plethora of BIS's so I did not see the need to add this one.

I have had bad luck with the DPMS A2 rear BIS so I decied I will stick with the ones that have not failed me in the past.

I have used the ARMS#40, KAC 300m and 600m BISs'at work and I continue to do so.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 6:17:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GunsRule:
One can hardly go wrong by purchasing a corvette, or an sl600...  besides maybe the fact that they spent way more money than necessary because some jackass insisted that more expensive is better.
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Well I can tell you from first hand experience Corvettes suck and you should not buy one. This is not an issue of snobs and high dollar parts.  Just from looking at that thing it appears fragile and overly complex.  It in no way compares to my two favorite sights.  The ARMS 40 and the PRI front sight.

Much like the Corvette there are items which are MORE expensive and do LESS than a quality part like the ARMS 40.  Just because this sight costs less does not make price an issue.

PS: Dont buy a Corvette...they are still just a Chevy.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 7:02:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 7:14:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Duffy:
If car makers in the US start putting the ignition key hole on the left side of the steering column, I'd say that's a poor design because it failed to accomodate ergonomics., it matters not that mechanically it works equally well that way.
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I had a Porsche 911 in high school that had the ignition key in the dash on the left side of the column.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 7:35:39 PM EDT
I had a number 40 move like that cause it was new like a pair of shoes can be, not because of the spring. I just held the wingage knob and rotated the aperture back and forth a few times and tightness solved.
Just check thru the threads, I have complimented many many many various items, but I guess if I give an honest point of view and say something you don't like it is bashing, so be it.
No Dick here so get off that bs horse too.
Jack
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 10:53:20 PM EDT
I'd PAY and be honored to have the likes of Dick Swan of ARMS, Daivd Lutz of KAC and plenty of others to post on my ar15 board if I had one.
Does ARMS need to promote their hardware here?  Like KAC I bet the miliary and LE market account for the vast majority of their market share.  If the owners of this site deem it appropriate to have 3rdtk pay to contribute they would have asked him to.
Why don't we stick to the subject, instead of talking about 3rdtk?  This thread is about the DPMS sights and not about 3rdtk or ARMS.

I had two Porsches, a BMW and presently an E320, the ergonomics of German cars are always kind of screwy with indecipherable icons and strange placement of controls.  This aspect the Japanese car makers are very good at.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 4:10:46 AM EDT
Garry and Sinistral, Lets please stick to the subject and Garry, dang man, Im pretty sure there is something in the code of conduct that says something about language... I slip once in a while too, but dang man!

And jeez folks, when is this 3rdtk = ARMS crap going to die? I would ask anyone who continues to jump on that band wagon to forward us a shred of evidence that this is true?!

I've not used those DPMS sights but I agree, they dont do a thing for me to want me to try them either.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 7:18:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2003 7:20:00 AM EDT by 123whisper]
I like the design of the DPMS sight, but I have a few problems...

1.  They used a windage knob for the thumb nut.  Really bulky.  They should have used a nut slotted for a penny or something.  I am with ARMS on this one.  Make it a slotted nut for a penny or something.  Slotted nuts are just a lot less bulky and better on things you don't need to get off in a hurry.  Rear sight should stay on the gun at all times.

2.  Why make a BUIS set, market it as providing the longest sight radius, then give it that huge aperature?

I do not like the front, but then again I hate railed gas blocks.

Garry, the only reason you bought ARMS mounts at full retail or close to it is because ARMS doesn't give their dealers much room on price.

That idea of mounting the buis foward is interesting, and it is especially suited for the DMPS sight.  Could allow you to put the ACOG further back.  Course everyone would scream how you would loose all of your precision by shortening your sight radius.  But it sure helped Henry Bowman [;)]
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 1:57:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 2:02:53 PM EDT by Garryowen]
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 2:30:10 PM EDT
I don't know where an A1 drum got involved, but if a new piece of equipment comes in, it is best to figure out what is going on before re engineering and cutting wouldn't you say. I responded with a solution that I found to the same experience, but with a logical quick fix (manipulate the aperture) and no cutting. M16A2 sights are pretty tough items and certainly don't need to be re designed, if indeed it was realy attempted in the first place.
Jack
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 2:35:39 PM EDT
[img]hayesresearch.com/angrybot.jpg[/img]


[b]TURD!!![/b]

Angrybot says that you should in fact go home and drink bleach.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 4:36:01 PM EDT
Rusty Robots make a lot of funny noises. They need to drink oil:)
Jack
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 5:38:56 PM EDT
3rdtk,

I'm still trying to understand your logic in not identifying yourself. Your word would certainly hold a lot more weight on this board if we knew who you were or at least who you worked for. Why not put the Dick Swan rumors to rest?
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 6:04:44 PM EDT
I like it, it works for me.  I don't shoot pass 60 yards with my AR Carbine. It's nice and flat and tucks out of the way.  If I shot further or needed precision I would definitely get a different sight.  I use this sight for emergency only and so far have not needed it.  I paid $60 and never use it.  So, would I be better off with a more expensive sight I never use.  Because it does more stuff I don't need!
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 6:31:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
3rdtk,

I'm still trying to understand your logic in not identifying yourself. Your word would certainly hold a lot more weight on this board if we knew who you were or at least who you worked for. Why not put the Dick Swan rumors to rest?
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Well who cares.

If he happens to be CAG/SFOD-D or from a SFG or other SOF unit should he come out and intro you to his sister?

I have gotten some 100% info from 3rdtk - I diasagree with him at times.

But who he is has nothing to do with this board.

Link Posted: 12/22/2003 6:40:01 PM EDT
Would you guys be happy if someone like 3rdtk stopped contributing altogether because he's had it with the constant badgering about his identity?  That'd be a loss to us, I tell you.
While we're at it why don't we ask KevinB to tell us what unit he's in and post a pic of himself, that'd serve as much purpose as 3rdtk revealing himself to us: NONE.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 6:59:40 PM EDT
If anyone cares to look, most of the members names have not been listed, nor even say who they realy are, but if I give some special insight that means I should be different? I only say check it out for yourself, anything I say as being a fact opposed to an opinion, can be verified. If you see something I say as a fact that you find isn't, please show me. I think that is more than fair to all.
I'd feel bad for Mr. Swan, but he has valuable patents, money, and a whole lot of knowledge that a lot of us look for, but he isn't the only one that has a lot of knowledge. Can't we find someone else to blame for me/us?
JACKS OF ALL TRADES, MASTERS OF SOME!:)
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:04:51 PM EDT
wondermut

Thank you sir.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:29:42 PM EDT
I agree, Jack is/are just Jack.  He states his own opinions as well as his own observations.  Everyone's point of view is different as well as their experiences and opinions.  If you agree with what he presents, take it to heart.  If you disagree with him or feel he is blowing hot air, then just say so and take your best shot at him.  What the hell is the problem?  What is knowing who he is going to solve anyway?  
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 6:33:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KevinB:
should he come out and intro you to his sister?
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Is she back with the family working for ARMS? I heard the family disowned her after she ran off with a guy from GG&G and started designing ARMS knock off products for him.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 9:34:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 1:16:40 PM EDT by dugedug]
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 9:43:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 9:48:21 AM EDT by Zardoz]
Originally Posted By dugedug:
What does this all have to do with the DPMS sight? Start your own thread please, don't hijack mine. Thanks.
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Gotta have plot twists to keep it interesting.

Btw: While I personally don't like the DPMS "catapult" sight, if you like it, good deal! That's one less part of the weapon you'll be constantly buying and replacing until you find something that works for you.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 10:06:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dugedug:
What does this all have to do with the DPMS sight? Start your own thread please, don't hijack mine. Thanks.
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Maybe now she's seeing a guy from DPMS and designed their new flip up sight. It's a small world.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 10:14:22 AM EDT
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=13119[/img]

I am the guy on the left...
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:17:55 AM EDT
I'm on the right. [:p]

[img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/081814.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:40:46 AM EDT
[:D]
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