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Posted: 4/20/2016 5:19:38 PM EDT
Hey guys, I know the topic of roll pin installs is a recurring one. Usually devolves into "get roll pin starters" / "I ain't buying a starter they are too expensive" / "use vice grips" / "use normal roll pin punch but tape the pin to the punch" / "buy this $65 set of special pliers".

Feel free to evaluate where this lands in that spectrum

I did something last night on the trigger guard roll pin that I've not heard of before. Just used my vice.

Tape up the lower as needed. Used a small block of wood to protect the lower from the serrations on the vice jaw. Lubed up the pin. Used a small piece of flat steel to protect the pin from the serrations on the other vice jaw. Slowly closed the vice. Got it to where about 2 mm of pin sticking out, finished off with 2 whacks with punch.

Essentially it is a variation on the vice grips / special pliers theme, but:
a) you don't gotta spend $65 for those special kraut pliers
b) most people already have a vice
c) none of the issues with typical vice grips where they don't drive together "flat"

Pretty easy.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 5:32:03 PM EDT
Yep this is what I usually do!
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 5:44:24 PM EDT
What is so hard about simply supporting the ear and using a small punch and hammer to install the roll pin? I've assembled over 100 AR rifles that way and never had issues.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 5:57:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By USMC0844spare:
Hey guys, I know the topic of roll pin installs is a recurring one. Usually devolves into "get roll pin starters" / "I ain't buying a starter they are too expensive" / "use vice grips" / "use normal roll pin punch but tape the pin to the punch" / "buy this $65 set of special pliers".

Feel free to evaluate where this lands in that spectrum

I did something last night on the trigger guard roll pin that I've not heard of before. Just used my vice.

Tape up the lower as needed. Used a small block of wood to protect the lower from the serrations on the vice jaw. Lubed up the pin. Used a small piece of flat steel to protect the pin from the serrations on the other vice jaw. Slowly closed the vice. Got it to where about 2 mm of pin sticking out, finished off with 2 whacks with punch.

Essentially it is a variation on the vice grips / special pliers theme, but:
a) you don't gotta spend $65 for those special kraut pliers
b) most people already have a vice
c) none of the issues with typical vice grips where they don't drive together "flat"

Pretty easy.
View Quote



I use channel lock pliers. I did one just the other day. Took all of five seconds.
No scratches, no problem.

Good on you OP for figuring how to do it without spending more money.

Be sure to post pics when you finish it.


Link Posted: 4/20/2016 6:14:46 PM EDT
I like my Knipex pliers, but whatever gets the job done. The Knipex are great for hose clamps too.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 7:27:50 PM EDT
That works too, and it's how I did my first. I didn't want to do it that way this time because it was seriously the hardest roll pin to do of all the roll pins first time.

Thing would just not go in easy even with beveling the end and lubing it and so on. In comparison the gas tube roll pin was easy as cake, same with the bolt catch.

Just tried something different and it worked great.

Just throwing out an idea for those other relative newbies.

And thanks for making my point for me!

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DVS:
What is so hard about simply supporting the ear and using a small punch and hammer to install the roll pin? I've assembled over 100 AR rifles that way and never had issues.
View Quote

Link Posted: 4/20/2016 8:48:36 PM EDT
If the pin doesn't fit it's likely out of spec. Lots of import lpk's around lately
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:55:34 PM EDT
I had to arbor press my trigger roll pin, heard a loud screeching noise as it went in. I couldn't arbor press the bolt catch roll pin so I caved in and bought a knipex--didnt have to go to gunsmith so it paid for itself.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 1:32:42 AM EDT
My last one I put the pin in the freezer for 30 minutes, had some PB Blaster on the ear holes, It was the easiest I had a pin go in.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:34:51 AM EDT
http://www.homedepot.com/p/BESSEY-Non-Marring-Vise-Jaw-Accessory-for-Use-on-Vises-with-Jaws-from-3-in-to-6-in-Wide-BV-NVJ/204986223

these work really well......
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:13:40 AM EDT
Last removal / Install I did I found a great support:

AK front sight tool.

Take the threaded portion out and you have a "U" block that just so happens to be the right size for the receiver ears with a nice hole through it. Wrapped the ears with tape, lubed the roll pin, tapped it in with my short punch and a light hammer.
The hardest part is lining up the pin, but it worked great!
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 11:29:14 AM EDT
I bought a $6 set of us made roll pin starters off amazon they work great
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:25:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RogueSpear2023:
I bought a $6 set of us made roll pin starters off amazon they work great
View Quote


Can we get a link?
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 1:05:52 PM EDT
http://www.amazon.com/Upgrade-Screw-Magpul-Trigger-Guard/dp/B00BNOPHUU

works with aluminum or poly...just did an aluminum and took about 5 minutes. Drill out the magpul part to 5/32...insert inserts...screw together with no roll pin.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 1:13:45 PM EDT
I support the bottom trigger guard ear on the top of my lower vise block and use a small brass hammer to drive the pin through. Two whacks and it's installed. Then finish it off with a small punch and one final whack. And, no, hitting the pin directly with the brass hammer doesn't mash the top of the pin. Two good whacks and the pin is almost flush. Three whacks total and it's done. Simple as pie. Not sure why it's such a big deal for everyone. I work part time at a local custom shop and build lowers daily. Never had a bent or broken trigger guard ear in hundreds of lowers.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 1:17:23 PM EDT
Press pins in, tap pins out. I honestly don't know why this is so hard for arfcom.

Starter punches should only be used in areas where other tools won't fit. The ar 15 is easily accessible. With exception of the bolt catch. Still very easy to install. Mildly annoying to remove.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 1:27:23 PM EDT
If I get a LPK and it has standard split roll pins they go right into the garbage can.
Very minimal investment just to switch to the coiled pins, which go in much easier.

http://www.andersonrifles.com/product/trigger-guard-roll-pin/

Or in bulk from McMaster Carr-

25 in 420 Stainless for $9 #95765A334
100 in standard steel for $7 #91598A253

Link Posted: 4/21/2016 2:25:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2016 2:30:00 PM EDT by 556Cliff]
We have >these< now, why do we even debate this anymore.

Before the DOA trigger guards came out I was a fan of the coiled roll pins from RRA. I still use the RRA coiled roll pins for the bolt catch.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 5:27:14 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 556Cliff:
We have >these< now, why do we even debate this anymore.

Before the DOA trigger guards came out I was a fan of the coiled roll pins from RRA. I still use the RRA coiled roll pins for the bolt catch.
View Quote


Do RRA LPK's come with coiled roll pins?
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 5:29:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Krashdog:
Press pins in, tap pins out. I honestly don't know why this is so hard for arfcom.

Starter punches should only be used in areas where other tools won't fit. The ar 15 is easily accessible. With exception of the bolt catch. Still very easy to install. Mildly annoying to remove.
View Quote


I installed a trigger guard last night and I used a $3 small C-clamp from Harbor Freight to press the pin into place. I just taped up the side of the C-clamp resting against the lower with electrician's tape to protect the lower's finish. Worked pretty good. I did need to give the pin one or two final taps to seat it flush.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 5:58:14 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AeroEngineer:


Do RRA LPK's come with coiled roll pins?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AeroEngineer:
Originally Posted By 556Cliff:
We have >these< now, why do we even debate this anymore.

Before the DOA trigger guards came out I was a fan of the coiled roll pins from RRA. I still use the RRA coiled roll pins for the bolt catch.


Do RRA LPK's come with coiled roll pins?


I have never used an RRA LPK but I would assume they come with the coiled roll pins.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 6:34:36 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AeroEngineer:


I installed a trigger guard last night and I used a $3 small C-clamp from Harbor Freight to press the pin into place. I just taped up the side of the C-clamp resting against the lower with electrician's tape to protect the lower's finish. Worked pretty good. I did need to give the pin one or two final taps to seat it flush.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AeroEngineer:
Originally Posted By Krashdog:
Press pins in, tap pins out. I honestly don't know why this is so hard for arfcom.

Starter punches should only be used in areas where other tools won't fit. The ar 15 is easily accessible. With exception of the bolt catch. Still very easy to install. Mildly annoying to remove.


I installed a trigger guard last night and I used a $3 small C-clamp from Harbor Freight to press the pin into place. I just taped up the side of the C-clamp resting against the lower with electrician's tape to protect the lower's finish. Worked pretty good. I did need to give the pin one or two final taps to seat it flush.


I also use the c clamp. Did it with hammer and punches for year, now I wonder why I didn't think of a c clamp earlier.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 10:49:37 PM EDT
Here's another trip, get like a piece of 14 gauge wire strip of a small bit and use the wire insulation on the roll pin & punch.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 7:50:56 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USMC0844spare:
That works too, and it's how I did my first. I didn't want to do it that way this time because it was seriously the hardest roll pin to do of all the roll pins first time.

Thing would just not go in easy even with beveling the end and lubing it and so on. In comparison the gas tube roll pin was easy as cake, same with the bolt catch.

Just tried something different and it worked great.

Just throwing out an idea for those other relative newbies.

And thanks for making my point for me!


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USMC0844spare:
That works too, and it's how I did my first. I didn't want to do it that way this time because it was seriously the hardest roll pin to do of all the roll pins first time.

Thing would just not go in easy even with beveling the end and lubing it and so on. In comparison the gas tube roll pin was easy as cake, same with the bolt catch.

Just tried something different and it worked great.

Just throwing out an idea for those other relative newbies.

And thanks for making my point for me!

Originally Posted By DVS:
What is so hard about simply supporting the ear and using a small punch and hammer to install the roll pin? I've assembled over 100 AR rifles that way and never had issues.


Link Posted: 4/23/2016 4:58:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2016 5:17:33 AM EDT by shootertim]
I have a set of snap on, strait tip lock ring pliers that does the trick for me. It makes roll pin installs a breeze. Just put the pin in the jaws, line it up, and tap it in with your hammer until it is started, then finish with a punch. I think I got mine pretty cheap at a rummage sale a few years ago.
I know this isn't a snap on, but it's very similar, at a reasonable price. These pliers are very useful...I use mine at least once a week on various stuff.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wilde-Tool-9-in-Straight-Tip-Lock-Ring-Pliers-G704PNP/204760187?gclid=CjwKEAjwuuy4BRCvs43g9fX9mz4SJACiYydP614vuMKAG­J7MhN2UQw7qoAiVMLPdVgzGJgrRl6N0shoCcNHw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 5:29:19 AM EDT
Man, I just don't get the hatred or fear for roll pins. They aren't that difficult.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 7:47:31 AM EDT
http://www.amazon.com/Kobalt-2-Piece-Magnum-Grip-Pliers/dp/B00A0KVY46

Or

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00QO2XGRW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1461411731&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=squirrel+daddy+hollow+end+stainless+steel+sta­rter+punch+set&dpPl=1&dpID=51D--Qef8TL&ref=plSrch

Link Posted: 4/23/2016 7:49:21 AM EDT
http://www.amazon.com/Kobalt-2-Piece-Magnum-Grip-Pliers/dp/B00A0KVY46

Or

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00QO2XGRW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1461411731&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=squirrel+daddy+hollow+end+stainless+steel+sta­rter+punch+set&dpPl=1&dpID=51D--Qef8TL&ref=plSrch

Link Posted: 4/23/2016 2:38:44 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DVS:
What is so hard about simply supporting the ear and using a small punch and hammer to install the roll pin? I've assembled over 100 AR rifles that way and never had issues.
View Quote


X2

I lay my lower on it's side and just tap it in. Never had one come back out. Someone else mentioned there are lots of import LPKs round and if you have one that is overly tight it is probably not in spec.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 7:51:33 PM EDT
I use a set of robo grips with the jaws covered in electrical tape. The jaws will fit between the two trigger guard ears and it presses the roll pin in, once you get it in the one ear, you put your trigger guard in and finish squeezing it in.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 8:46:06 PM EDT
DEAD ON ARMS, LLC - AR-15/M16 PINLESS OVERSIZED TRIGGERGUARD

Dead On Arms Trigger Guard

Link Posted: 4/24/2016 1:37:29 AM EDT
^^^^^^^^^^^

See above. 100% dummy proof (just ask how I know), and no tools needed. No need for roll pins or the fear of breaking anything.
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