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Posted: 5/29/2008 3:00:13 PM EDT
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I've seen so many people ask about, and argue about using Simple Green (SG) on firearms, I decided to pull together some info about it. I searched here in the archive and in a lot of other sites for info about SG. Because it is such a widely used, and useful cleaner, many people find it appealing to use it with their guns. Someone may wonder why even bother trying to use SG, when there are so many gun-care solutions available. The common answers I have seen come up are as follows. Advantages of using Simple Green: - Simplicity. You can get away with having less solutions in your house. - Cost. Your cost per ounce for SG is usually quite a bit lower than most specialty gun-care solutions - Effectiveness. SG is quite good at cutting through grease and grime, while remaining non-toxic. Problems with using Simple Green: However, there is controversy about using SG. While some users swear by it, others swear AT it, claiming it has damaged or corroded the surface of aluminum (such as that on aircraft and on AR-15 receivers). The Army and apparently the Air Force have rejected the use of SG for certain applications, such as cleaning rifles and cleaning aluminum aircraft. Here are some links supporting the military's prohibition of SG for various cleaning applications when aluminum is involved. Each link involves some military-related information or publication that rules out use of SG on aluminum. The most detailed article is listed first, and the SG material starts on p. 14 of the PDF file: https://crc.army.mil/MediaAndPubs/magazines/flightfax/2005_issues/ffnovdec05.pdf www.chinook-helicopter.com/maintenance/issues/cleaners/cleaners.html https://www.tacom-ec.com/mhe/ https://crcapps2.crc.army.mil/warrior_stories/warrior_story.asp?lessonid=2004930-42 So, here are my findings after both researching SG, and trying it myself: 1) In general, I think you do better if you use gun care solutions designed specifically--and tested--to work effectively on guns. Currently I use Mpro-7 as my gun cleaner, and I think despite the advantages of using SG as outlined above, if you purchase a good cleaner like Mpro-7 in bulk it doesn't cost that much, and it works great with little risk, so this is what I'd personally recommend. 2) If you are determined to use Simple Green, it does seem to work well, but it should be used with these caveats: - SG SHOULD NOT BE USED ON ALUMINUM PARTS IN FIREARMS. AT ALL!!! That is a firm recommendation based on the experience of the U.S. Army, and many individuals. Even the Simple Green website admits that SG can harm aluminum if not handled carefully (see below). - SG can be used on STEEL parts in firearms, as a very effective degreaser and grime cutter. As long as you make the key distinction to only use SG on isolated steel parts, it can work great for guns. For example in bores, on bolts and BCGs, on trigger assemblies, etc. Just be sure that the parts you're dealing with are all steel. This is how I have occasionally used SG in the past, with good success. It is much quicker to clean a BCG and bolt by soaking it in SG than to scrub it by hand, and it even works better than most gun solutions (though not better than Mpro-7 and a few other specialized cleaners). Guidelines for use: If you are going to use Simple Green anyway on your guns, here are guidelines I've pulled together from the SG website and other sites I've seen:
Information from the Simple Green Website about using SG on guns: On a tips page, they say this about cleaning guns: www.simplegreen.com/solutions_cleaning_tips.php "Clean disassembled gun parts in a 1-part Simple Green to 1-part water solution. Rinse completely with warm water. Dry thoroughly, being sure to get any remaining moisture out of blind holes. Immediately follow up with a protectant and/or lubricant to prevent rusting of metal gun parts." On an FAQ page, if you search for "aluminum", it pulls up a lengthy quote. Here is the relevant portion of that material: www.simplegreen.com/solutions_faqs.php?search_query=aluminum&search=Search "However, caution and common sense must be used: aluminum is a soft metal that easily corrodes with unprotected exposure to water. The aqueous-base and alkalinity of Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner can accelerate the corrosion process. Therefore, contact times for unprotected or unpainted aluminum surfaces should be kept as brief as the job will allow - never for more than 10 minutes. Large cleaning jobs should be conducted in smaller-area stages to achieve lower contact time. Rinsing after cleaning should always be extremely thorough - paying special attention to flush out cracks and crevices to remove all Simple Green® product residues. Unfinished, uncoated or unpainted aluminum cleaned with Simple Green products should receive some sort of protectant after cleaning to prevent oxidation." Conclusions: Simple Green can work, but should NEVER be used on aluminum AT ALL in your firearms. If you do use it either on aluminum or on other metal parts, you should follow the practices in the "Guidelines" section above. In general, because of the risks of using SG if you don't get it all rinsed off properly and so forth, I prefer to just stick with products that are designed for working with firearms. Seems a small price to pay, to keep those expensive guns in good working condition! |
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Thanks for the writeup. I've always been weary of using water-based cleaning solutions on firearms due to the idea of corrosion/rust/etc.. I use Simple Green for cleaning vehicles and tough indoor problems and it does an exceptional job. It smells great, too. I've been using CLP and QUIB's OMS cleaning method on my AR, but I think I'm going to try some Hoppe's #9 because I've always felt a 2-step cleaning process was superior to doing it all in one step. A thorough scrubbing with Hoppe's #9 followed by some Rem Oil is probably what it'll be. I'll keep the CLP in my range box, though. I like the idea of a 1-step product when I have more important things to be doing. |
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How would Simple Green be superior to a mixture of Dawn's dishwashing detergent and hot water? I like this combination. It is very effective. Yes, you do have to make sure your gun is dry, and then re-oil. Dawn's doesn't seem to harm aluminum. At least, it hasn't hurt any of my AR's yet. Nothing against the use of SG, just wondering why Dawn's wouldn't work as well. |
I would wonder if Dawn is as clean rinsing as Simple Green. The stuff that makes Dawn soap a gelly-substance could be a factor, but I think it would be negated by relubing the rifle with a petroleum-based oil. |
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Dawn is a great product. One of the best factors of Dawn is that it leaves no residue, hence them using it to clean oil soaked birds after a spill. I learned about this after the Valdez incident. When applying automotive pin-stripes / decals, prep'ing the surface with Dawn will allow the sticker to slide into place and then when it dries you will full adhesion. Dawn is a great wonder product to have around the house to do many duties, safely and is cheap enough to have a gallon or two in the SHTF supply. I wouldn't use it on a firearm...maybe the furniture or to wipe off some crud on the exterior, but that's it. Edited for stupidity----Good |
Great write up and it echos my experience. "Rinse and dry the parts thoroughly when done." is the key. DO NOT let the parts air dry...I found out the hard way. Also make sure that if you use SG to soak parts that they are TOTALLY submerged in the liquid and that no part is exposed to air. I have left steel parts in SG for weeks with no problems. |
+1 Ive played with several water based cleaners and had mixed results.They seem to work fairly well on light fouling but have little effect on stubborn deposits and none on metal fouling. Personally I only use water based cleaner and soaps on corrosive ammo as Quib mentions and thats it.Primary reason in using hot water and soap in cleaning corrosive ammo is to remove the corrosive salts which are water soluable.That said I do a followup cleaning with Hoppe's No.9 to remove the bulk of the fouling from the bore that the water based cleaners miss. I personally would never soak a lower or a pistol frame or slide in a water based cleaner unless it was completely disassembled.Reason is that the water will remain in the tight spots such as pins,fire control etc....and will evertually cause serious corrosion. Dishwashing liquids are no safer than an alkaline cleaner like simple green either.Most all dishwashing liquids clean by also using a chemical process.In fact if you read the label it clearly states that they use both anionic and nonionic surfactants.Who actually knows what the pH is of the dishwashing liquids considering variable mixture ratios of a squirt here and there.Higher the concentration of soap the higher the pH.Which is also the issue with Simple green.The pH is almost as high as ammonia on the scale when mixed heavily.Thats also why the dishwashing liquid bottle labels say not to mix the with bleach. Now all that is not counting the chemicals such as what we see in our drinking water. To top all that off when you clean with the water and soap it removes all traces of oil and protectant in most cases which immediately opens the surface up to hydrogen which equals possible corrosion issues. Simply put if your using a CLP type product there are absolutely no advantages or need of cleaning with a water based cleaner unless your trying to completely degrease a surface for such things as bluing a barrel etc..All your doing is trying to save time,money and work...which in the end your actually not. The CLP will penetrate and displace most all fouling and dirt that is on the metal.If you have a seriously funky weapon try Quibs dunkit solution,or do what I do and just soak the affected parts in Hoppe's No.9 or CLP.Basically what Quib did years ago and is why I do the same. In most all cases of trying to remove a previously used lubricant it can be flushed away by just using a good CLP with regular cleaning. If your going after heavy fouling such as carbon or metal fouling a good weapons specific solvent like Hoppe's No.9 is darn hard to beat.Certainly no water based solvent will work as well as Hoppe's No.9 on hard carbon or metal fouling...especially considering the fact a bore can be soaked for days and weeks with Hoppe's No.9 where a water based cleaner cannot be used safely. If your worried about toxic fumes and possible contamination...well I say its a moot point.Honestly we all breath more chemicals and toxic vapors riding in our cars in traffic and while pumpimg gas than anything we do fooling around cleaning weapons. |
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